Rondo is overrated

[bballcool34]

Eh. IMO a PG with top playmaking skills wouldn't be leading an offense that's 24th in the league. As a Phoenix Suns fan, I've watched Steve Nash take all kinds of pieces and turn them into top 10 offenses (at the very least), no matter who's surrounding him or who's coaching him. But then again, comparing Rondo to an absolute all-time great is unfair, but even compared to guys like Chris Paul and Deron, he's lacking.

What's your theory of why?

Anyone who watches Rondo would say he has top play making skills. To criticize him for that is just bizarre.

[humblebum]

I'm gaining more respect for Rondo. He just needs to work on making his jumper absolutely CONSISTENT, as well as keeping his effort level high, even through the regular season. That, and I'm not quite convinced of him having a noticeably beneficial effect on Boston's offense (it has been declining since 2008 and was ranked 24th in the league this season), but you can't argue with a statline like 44 points/10 assists/8 boards while playing all 53 minutes.

He definitely has a noticeable beneficial effect on Boston's offense.

The argument as to how much and whether it merits him being a top point guard is the debate.

Playoff Rondo is a different beast than regular season Rondo though---he's been absolutely magnificent.

Eh. IMO a PG with top playmaking skills wouldn't be leading an offense that's 24th in the league. As a Phoenix Suns fan, I've watched Steve Nash take all kinds of pieces and turn them into top 10 offenses (at the very least), no matter who's surrounding him or who's coaching him. But then again, comparing Rondo to an absolute all-time great is unfair, but even compared to guys like Chris Paul and Deron, he's lacking.

The reality is that I don't think the regular season matters all that much to Rondo, so it's really hard to get a firm grasp on who he is as a player.

As a Celtics fan Rondo is one of the most amazing and frustrating players to watch. When he's locked in he makes an argument for top 10 player in the NBA. Thankfully for us Celtics fans he tends to be more focused and active in the playoffs.

The other issues with the offense not performing (aside from Rondo's lackadaisical reg. season play) are the Doc Rivers system, the lack of young scoring talent, the pace, and the lack of a consistent inside scoring/offensive rebound threat.

If Playoff Rondo came to play most nights in the regular season he'd be an undisputed top 10 player.

[soxfan2003]

RA and PP declined this year and the Celtics bench was woeful so its not like RR was playing with the same talent as 2008-2011.

During the regular season, Rondo is probably only a top 5 PG but in the post season the only PG I'd certainly want going into a series without much hesitation then him is Chris Paul. Between Parker and Rondo it is probably a toss-up with the Celtics better off with Rondo but the Spurs better off with Parker.

Rondo has improved his mid range shooting. He passes a little bit too much during the regular season for my tastes since I think he was trying to hard to get assists to keep his assist streak alive. And possibly trying too hard to keep the Big 3 happy. But he still has great passing and penetration ability. His FT shooting is bad but that is really the only weakness in his game and he has shot free throws better this post season.

His defense isn't as good as Avery Bradley but he is still one of the best defensive pg's in the game.

What I like about Rondo is that he is already a top 2-3 post season PG and unlike the other top 5 PGs, he really has some more upside in his game if he continues to improve his outside shooting which he has clearly done over time.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

tbh, if he ever had to play with scrubs and a bad coach I think we'd see the true Rondo. He has solid defenders and great finishers all around him so he doesn't have to carry the team (that 44 point game was luck, you won't see him hit jumpers like that again anytime soon) so he can rack up assists. Yes, he's a great penetrator, but if he were the main offensive threat and three point champs in Ray Allen and Pierce weren't behind him, lets see how he'd fair.

I'd take Paul, Rose and Parker over him (Williams fell off). Rondo is the 4th best pg to me

[bballcool34]

tbh, if he ever had to play with scrubs and a bad coach I think we'd see the true Rondo. He has solid defenders and great finishers all around him so he doesn't have to carry the team (that 44 point game was luck, you won't see him hit jumpers like that again anytime soon) so he can rack up assists. Yes, he's a great penetrator, but if he were the main offensive threat and three point champs in Ray Allen and Pierce weren't behind him, lets see how he'd fair.

I'd take Paul, Rose and Parker over him (Williams fell off). Rondo is the 4th best pg to me

Any point guard needs shooters/finishers around him.

You're basically saying that if Rondo had a garbage team, he wouldn't fair so well. The actuality is he would be fine, the team wouldn't be though, just like Deron's Nets blew this year.

[Deathclutch23]

Thread created by a Laker fan and Derrick Rose nuthuggers trying to downplay other good PG's accomplishments.

Stay Classy Realgm.

[smith2373]

No GM is taking Rondo (even with a jumper) over Rose, Paul, Williams, and maybe not even Westbrook.

Great retort! I found your statistical analysis profound. You definitely proved your point... Meanwhile, here's actual proof NBA GM's on their preference of point guards and Derrick, Chris, Russell, and Deron were all in front of Rondo... http://www.nba.com/news/features/2012-g ... index.html

You said no GM is taking Rondo with a jumper over Rose, CP3, Deron and Westbrook.
Then you proceed to post the results of a GM survey asking who they thought was the best PG in the NBA, which says nothing about including Rondo having a jumper.

[tiderulz]

Great retort! I found your statistical analysis profound. You definitely proved your point... Meanwhile, here's actual proof NBA GM's on their preference of point guards and Derrick, Chris, Russell, and Deron were all in front of Rondo... http://www.nba.com/news/features/2012-g ... index.html

actually, Deron wasnt in front of Rondo. They only list 3 and neither Rondo nor Williams was on the list.

[dice]

No GM is taking Rondo (even with a jumper) over Rose, Paul, Williams, and maybe not even Westbrook.

Great retort! I found your statistical analysis profound. You definitely proved your point... Meanwhile, here's actual proof NBA GM's on their preference of point guards and Derrick, Chris, Russell, and Deron were all in front of Rondo... http://www.nba.com/news/features/2012-g ... index.html

way to change your argument. the GMs were not polled on "rondo with a jumper". they were polled on rondo as-is

and by the way, look at when that poll was taken and recall how rondo's relationship with management was at that time. and how he has played in the playoffs

[Iplaytolose]

Thread created by a Laker fan and Derrick Rose nuthuggers trying to downplay other good PG's accomplishments.

Stay Classy Realgm.

Derrick Rose is hurt anyway, so he's officially out of top PG talks. No one knows how good he's going to be coming off surgery & rehab.

[Kampuchea]

Rondo is surrounded by great players so its easy for him to rack up the numbers. Put him on a regular team and i bet he is out of the league in no time. The Celtics know this and keep trying to trade him

[smith2373]

Rondo is surrounded by great players so its easy for him to rack up the numbers. Put him on a regular team and i bet he is out of the league in no time. The Celtics know this and keep trying to trade him

So he just had the scoring game of any player in the playoffs because of the players around him?

[Kampuchea]

Rondo is surrounded by great players so its easy for him to rack up the numbers. Put him on a regular team and i bet he is out of the league in no time. The Celtics know this and keep trying to trade him

So he just had the scoring game of any player in the playoffs because of the players around him?

agree. They left him open so he would shoot instead of anybody else. He was basically shooting FTs

[GetItDone]

Rondo is surrounded by great players so its easy for him to rack up the numbers. Put him on a regular team and i bet he is out of the league in no time. The Celtics know this and keep trying to trade him

I wouldn't go this far.

Rondo is still good, great talent. I'd say it's more the system being predicated on screens and quick jump shots, making it very easy to rack up assists.

If you put him on the Hornets this year or the Nets, he'd probably average like 10-12 ppg and 6-8 apg. Solid numbers, but nothing elite.

[sca]

Rondo is surrounded by great players so its easy for him to rack up the numbers. Put him on a regular team and i bet he is out of the league in no time. The Celtics know this and keep trying to trade him

I wouldn't go this far.

Rondo is still good, great talent. I'd say it's more the system being predicated on screens and quick jump shots, making it very easy to rack up assists.

If you put him on the Hornets this year or the Nets, he'd probably average like 10-12 ppg and 6-8 apg. Solid numbers, but nothing elite.

Wow. Only on RealGM...

[smith2373]

Rondo is surrounded by great players so its easy for him to rack up the numbers. Put him on a regular team and i bet he is out of the league in no time. The Celtics know this and keep trying to trade him

So he just had the highest scoring game of any player in the playoffs because of the players around him?

agree. They left him open so he would shoot instead of anybody else. He was basically shooting FTs

You do realize they even switched over and had LeBron & Wade guarding him at certain points of the game right? You don't just score 44 by being wide open the whole entire time.

Rondo is surrounded by great players so its easy for him to rack up the numbers. Put him on a regular team and i bet he is out of the league in no time. The Celtics know this and keep trying to trade him

I wouldn't go this far.

Rondo is still good, great talent. I'd say it's more the system being predicated on screens and quick jump shots, making it very easy to rack up assists.

If you put him on the Hornets this year or the Nets, he'd probably average like 10-12 ppg and 6-8 apg. Solid numbers, but nothing elite.

So if you put him on a worse team, all of his numbers would go down? Do you know how dumb that sounds?

[Deathclutch23]

Rondo would easily average over 10 assists on Hornets. They have Gordon, Ariza, Okafor, Kaman.

People don't realize how important Rondo is to Celtics. There used to be a time when Rondo was a role player but that's a history now. Whenever Rondo goes to the bench Celtics struggle to score points. Hence him having to play 53 minutes in game 2.

Celtics are not the same team from 2008, hell even last year.

Outside of Garnett and Pierce no one is a consistent scoring threat. Ray Allen is struggling because of injury. Even Pierce is inconsistent this season. Look out how Bass has been this year, it's because of Rondo, Bass' stat got better since he started playing with Rondo.

[MattRoc32]

The the big issue with Rondo is how ridiculously inefficient he is in scoring the ball- He was 53rd out of 67 qualified PG's in TS% this year and .478. Last year he was 50th out of 64 at .494. He's never had a PER higher than 19.

With those numbers, I don't care how great of a playmaker he is, there just is not a way he can be considered a top flight guy at his position. This year, boston finished 24th in offensive efficiency. Last year they were tied for 17th. Rondo gets his assists, but a great number of them come in the most inefficient way possible- the long two point jump shot. He can be a magician with the ball at times and sometimes in transition, but the bulk of the Celtics' offense is Rondo standing at the top of the key dribbling and waiting for a shooter to come off of a screen or running pick and pop with a fantastic shooting big. For example, if as a pg, Rondo "initiates" 20 plays and gets 7 assists, but the Celtics only score 18 points because almost all of the possessions end with long twos, how effective has he really been?

If Rondo plays like he is in the Miami series, then of course he is a top 5 type of guy. But if he is the guy that has shown up in the last 2 regular seasons, his inefficiency scoring the ball is a huge liability and is something that cannot be ignored.

[Tai]

Rondo would be outta the league on another team?

And something about the Suns. Don't they ALWAYS have shooters on their teams? Nash? Richardson? Amare back in the day? Hill? CHANNING FRYE? Dragic? Dudley? Am I supposed to believe Rondo wouldn't benefit playing with that many shooters? I'm not saying Nash isn't great, but I kinda find it cute that people talk about where Boston's offense ranks to knock Rondo. I could very well envision people saying that if the Celtics had a better ranked offense, they'd credit someone else, but not Rondo.

Also, just a FYI, but the Nets' offense was 24th to the Celtics' 26th in points per game. Why has no one knocked Deron for that?

People wanna know where the hate's coming from? It's the lack of application of standards, and the outlandish claims such as Rondo not being in the league for long on another team.

[Tai]

For example, if as a pg, Rondo "initiates" 20 plays and gets 7 assists, but the Celtics only score 18 points because almost all of the possessions end with long twos, how effective has he really been?

Do the stats actually flesh out that way, or are you just pulling numbers outta a hat?