Best player on the Celtics

[colts18]

I'd go with Rondo.

[DirtyDez]

Rondo over KG but it's close.

[ThunderDan9]

I go with KG.
(And I'm not even a KG-fan.)

[Doctor MJ]

Garnett. People don't seem to realize that for all Rondo's flash as a playmaker, the offense has gone down the tubes as Rondo's primacy has increased. Not saying he's caused this to happen, but rather that Rondo's flash has never really been able to to cause great offense consistently.

It is a defensive team, and Garnett is easily the most important facet of that defense. When you add in that come playoff time Garnett's been their lead scorer, and most efficient of their major scorers, and he's widely acknowledged to be the team leader, it amazes me how this isn't widely seen as Garnett in a blowout.

I will say though, that Rondo has unreal games at times. I'm certainly not saying Rondo wasn't the best Celtic when he erupted for 40, but you can't go by one game eruptions here.

[Dr Positivity]

KG is their best player because of the consistency. When Rondo is having a good night he's by far the most impactful player on the court. So in a way Rondo is their most important player because they only have a shot in the playoffs with him playing well

[That Nicka]

Rondo

[JordansBulls]

If KG plays bad the Celtics lose. If Rondo plays bad the Celtics lose.

[ElGee]

I've had a lot of requests for a blog post on Rondo. I'll just spit it out here...

I consider Rondo to be vastly overrated, and think there are very obvious reasons for this.

(1) People fall in love with box score stats
(2) People fall in love with flash/flair
(3) People fall in love with high variance players (big highs) while ignoring the lows

That list grows progressively more interesting to me from a cognitive perspective as you move down it. Your mind -- that is, everyone reading this -- isn't designed to subtly parse out averages over large samples. That means when you watch high variance players, you "take away" a really strong impression of their "goodness." You marvel at what they are capable of and as a result weigh that disproportionately in your mind. It leaves a huge impression basically, and you don't appropriately balance that against their normal performances or even worse their bad ones. (This is also why high variance players are so polarizing as they have so many detractors who only focus on their bad performances.)

Assists are one of my least favorite statistics, because to say they are created evenly would be a massive understatement. They OFTEN do a decent job of capturing who is creating and pressuring the defense, but sometimes they miss badly. WIth Rondo, they miss badly. (Pierce and Allen were the leading creators on the Celtics according to my tracking from 2010-2011.)

Rebounds are another hard stat to gauge. Rondo IS indeed a good rebounder, this year posting a +1.5% OREB% relative to his team's wings...and he's a PG. (Feel free to ask more about what that means, but for perspective know that the league's leading guard in absolute OREB%, Tony Allen, was +3.1%. He picked up an extra 0.7 reb/game this year than if his OREB% were team average, so most of his impressive rebounding numbers are defensive...and that's a team strategy. As someone who watches a lot of Boston, my impression is he often "steals" rebounds from his own teammates simply by pinching back and not leaking out (again, team strategy). These rebounds have little impact on the game.

So, in short, when people say "look at the triple doubles!" and "oh what a game he had!" well, there are obviously times where he plays very well, but right off the bat I'm not enamored with the raw reb and ast numbers because I don't think they translate to helping the team as much as one would suggest. And if he's posting 15-5-6's (on his usual horrible efficiency) instead of 15-10-8 I don't think people are even having these conversations.

Then there's his shooting and scoring. Simply put, this man can't shoot. I consider shooting to be one of the most important elements of offensive basketball (eg the Spacing Effect), and Rondo is 13% below the next-to-last PG in FT% this year. He's an outlier of the worst kind. He' well into the bottom half of the league in shots outside 15 feet, which is especially dreadful since he is given so many open ones.

So, without writing a novel, KG's pretty clearly better right now. I don't think it's by some landslide -- Rondo is an all-star caliber player -- but KG has been flirting with that all-nba level this year, he probably would have earned my DPOY vote, and he's been the only post presence on offense for Boston. And obviously, as others have stated, the Celtics offense flirts with "not absolutely sucking" while they are totally powered by their defense, and KG is quite clearly the catalyst there.

[mademan]

KG is, imo, clearly their best player. His resurgence has been nothing short of remarkable.

[WhateverBro]

Great post by ElGee and I basically agree with everything. Rondo is a very hard player to guage simply because his boxscore stats suggests that he's better than he actually is. For someone who follows the Celtics; there's nothing worse than when Rondo is needing either assists or rebounds to get to a triple-double. He's going to pass up lay-ups to get a triple-double or try to snatch rebounds infront of their bigs.

He's also massively overrated defensively; he's not an elite defender. He's OK defensively. Gambles way too much which leads to extra pressure on their bigs because of the lanes to the basket being completely open.

This is Garnett by a fair margin. If you've watched Celtics these last couple of years there's nothing more showing than that Celtics simply fall apart without Garnett on the floor. He's needed for both spacing and defensively. Add to that that they have no low-post options except for him, it's pretty clear he's their best player.

[TheXFactor]

Rondo easily.

[Narigo]

Kevin Garnett's defense helped the Celtics to become the best defensive team in the NBA this year while Rondo is leading the Celtics to a bad offense. SO i am going with Garnett

[Athanatos]

Rondo is terribly underrated here, just like John Stockton. Garnett is playing great during these playoffs, but so is Rondo, so I'll say it is a tie right now. But basically, Rondo is the better player. He is a top 3 point guard in the league today.

[bastillon]

RAPM ?

[ShaqsLakers]

Rondo

[bastillon]

sheeple are laughably wrong about this. Rondo isn't even close to Paul Pierce, let alone KG who's on another level from Pierce. if Garnett leaves this team in the offseason, Boston is going back to lottery status. Rondo is soon gonna be exposed with his garbage impact. and wherever Garnett goes, that team is gonna end up with +10-15 wins and will most likely compete for a title.

[bballcool34]

Rondo at his best impacts the game more than any Celtic offensively. That is, playoff Rondo.

Garnett is the most key because of his defense, but if you just watch when he goes out say against the Heat, you can realize why the Celtics need him so much. There is a reason he played 52 minutes in a game and is playing SO many minutes.

There are guys who can limit an older Pierce in isolation situations. KG is dependent on getting good shots from passes.

No one in the league but Rondo himself can limit him--- and that's why his value is magnified in the slow down playoff offense against certain teams. Just a fantastic player and the engine behind the Celtics energy offensively when they're at their best.

[bballcool34]

KG is their best player because of the consistency. When Rondo is having a good night he's by far the most impactful player on the court. So in a way Rondo is their most important player because they only have a shot in the playoffs with him playing well

Yeah, this is a good summation of what I was saying. Sometimes, there really is value in watching the games.

Rondo's impact over the regular season is questionable, but in the post season, against defenses which limit Pierce, Rondo is needed so much.

[Doctor MJ]

Rondo at his best impacts the game more than any Celtic offensively. That is, playoff Rondo.

Garnett is the most key because of his defense, but if you just watch when he goes out say against the Heat, you can realize why the Celtics need him so much. There is a reason he played 52 minutes in a game and is playing SO many minutes.

There are guys who can limit an older Pierce in isolation situations. KG is dependent on getting good shots from passes.

No one in the league but Rondo himself can limit him--- and that's why his value is magnified in the slow down playoff offense against certain teams. Just a fantastic player and the engine behind the Celtics energy offensively when they're at their best.

Oh c'mon dude. The biggest thing holding him back is his shooting ability not some mental thing.

[Black Feet]

Gotta go with Rondo in the playoffs, lol at whoever said Pierce is still better than Rondo. That ship has sailed. Clearly between KG and Rondo now, and I don't see how anyone can say there is a significant difference between the 2.