Rondo is overrated

[MitchellUK]

This is what I love about the general board. Player is in the midst of historic playoff performance, elevating his game from his already elite regular season production, and we get threads calling him over-rated, fueled by people who either post to wind up opposing fans (bad) or genuinely believe it (worse). And in this thread, apparently it's all because Rondo's not a great shooter. I'm guessing Jason Kidd's career means nothing to you, OP? Or maybe we've all been over-rating Magic Johnson all this time - after all, he didn't have a great outside shooting touch.

[nashill]

Bashed him after game 1 but after watching him in game 2,3 and 4, all i can say is wow! I dont think he has reached his potential yet.

[og15]

This is what I love about the general board. Player is in the midst of historic playoff performance, elevating his game from his already elite regular season production, and we get threads calling him over-rated, fueled by people who either post to wind up opposing fans (bad) or genuinely believe it (worse). And in this thread, apparently it's all because Rondo's not a great shooter. I'm guessing Jason Kidd's career means nothing to you, OP? Or maybe we've all been over-rating Magic Johnson all this time - after all, he didn't have a great outside shooting touch.

Kidd and Magic are better shooters than Rondo, maybe not pull up, but much better at the FT line and could more reliably make open jump shots. I don't think the OP was criticizing him for not being a great shooter, but for being a below average one. It would make no sense to criticize him for not being a great shooter when not all the other guys ranked above him by the OP are great shooters.

[pross]

This is what I love about the general board. Player is in the midst of historic playoff performance, elevating his game from his already elite regular season production, and we get threads calling him over-rated, fueled by people who either post to wind up opposing fans (bad) or genuinely believe it (worse). And in this thread, apparently it's all because Rondo's not a great shooter. I'm guessing Jason Kidd's career means nothing to you, OP? Or maybe we've all been over-rating Magic Johnson all this time - after all, he didn't have a great outside shooting touch.

I think the funny thing is, seeing who the hate is coming from.

Most of it (not all, but majority) is coming from Bulls fans or more perhaps Rose homers. It's like they're afraid that Rondo is elevating to a new level whilst Rose may never be the same, like they have to protect his owner. The other is the Chris Paul fans which astounds me as he is at this moment, the undisputed top PG in the league. I don't get the hate there.

Meanwhile, I'm seeing a lot of praise and respect coming from Laker (although OP is a Laker fan, we all have dumb fans), Heat and Knick fans - all massive Celtic rivals. Quite an astonishing thread this one

[BJ43]

This is what I love about the general board. Player is in the midst of historic playoff performance, elevating his game from his already elite regular season production, and we get threads calling him over-rated, fueled by people who either post to wind up opposing fans (bad) or genuinely believe it (worse). And in this thread, apparently it's all because Rondo's not a great shooter. I'm guessing Jason Kidd's career means nothing to you, OP? Or maybe we've all been over-rating Magic Johnson all this time - after all, he didn't have a great outside shooting touch.

I think the funny thing is, seeing who the hate is coming from.

Most of it (not all, but majority) is coming from Bulls fans or more perhaps Rose homers. It's like they're afraid that Rondo is elevating to a new level whilst Rose may never be the same, like they have to protect his owner. The other is the Chris Paul fans which astounds me as he is at this moment, the undisputed top PG in the league. I don't get the hate there.

Meanwhile, I'm seeing a lot of praise and respect coming from Laker (although OP is a Laker fan, we all have dumb fans), Heat and Knick fans - all massive Celtic rivals. Quite an astonishing thread this one

I didn't want to waste my time, so I didnt read this whole thread, so when you wrote the above I decided to read just the last 5 pages and other myself I only saw one 'Bulls fan' posting, and they only joined 2 months ago, so I'm not sure if they're even a Bulls fan, or someone posing to make us look bad

Having said that seeing that my post was full of compliments for Rondo and theirs wasn't so that's 50% not sure where the 'majority' of it being Bulls fans comes from, unless the first 13 pages of this thread are full of them?

I doubt any knowledgeable Bulls fans would be hating on Rondo for his actual play this series. No issues with anyone not liking him for who he is on the court, personally I can't stand him, but that doesn't mean he isnt a great player worthy of the praise he's getting.

I've never understood the idea that putting one player down can make your player look better because it doesn't, each player is responsible for what they do and should be judged on that alone, not compared to what others are doing in completely different situations/circumstances, and right now we have no idea what Rose will be like when he returns. BUT there's no doubt that Rondo is playing on a level that in all honesty has him as the clear MVP for either team in this series, and that's saying alot considering the talent between these 2 teams

[jeff1624]

Tell us who your top five point guard are, why they are better than rondo, and then we can have a discussion

in the meantime, cool story bro!!!

Rose
Westbrook
Deron
Parker
Paul

Westbrook is not a PG. How can you compare the 10.5 or something assists per game of Rondo with the 6.8 of Westbrook. We are talking about PGs if you forgot.
Deron and Paul have never played in NBA and conference finals with the numbers and that good performances of Rondo. I might have to add Rose also to this.
Parker is also good but Rondo did and does better than him.

Deron Williams in 2007, WCF vs SA:

25.8 PPG, 3.4 RPG, 7.8 APG, .516 FG%, .471 3FG%, 2.4 SPG,

[Roddy]

I want to see Rondo without Pierce, Allen, Garnett and put up numbers like Deron Williams and Chris Paul then come talk to me.

You mean like sunday 15 April 2012 when Rondo has stats like 20pts, 16ast and 6rbs. 16 assists with Pietrus, Bradley, Stiemsma and Bass in the starting 5.

[MitchellUK]

This is what I love about the general board. Player is in the midst of historic playoff performance, elevating his game from his already elite regular season production, and we get threads calling him over-rated, fueled by people who either post to wind up opposing fans (bad) or genuinely believe it (worse). And in this thread, apparently it's all because Rondo's not a great shooter. I'm guessing Jason Kidd's career means nothing to you, OP? Or maybe we've all been over-rating Magic Johnson all this time - after all, he didn't have a great outside shooting touch.

Kidd and Magic are better shooters than Rondo, maybe not pull up, but much better at the FT line and could more reliably make open jump shots. I don't think the OP was criticizing him for not being a great shooter, but for being a below average one. It would make no sense to criticize him for not being a great shooter when not all the other guys ranked above him by the OP are great shooters.

My point wasn't to straight up compare Rondo's shooting to Kidd's or Magic's. The point was that Magic is considered one of the best ever, and Kidd is considered one of the best point guards of his era, yet neither of them were great shooters (and the case could be made that early in their careers neither were even particularly good shooters, Kidd especially, who couldn't even rely upon effectiveness and efficiency from mid-range and in to mask his lack of a jump shot like Magic did) and no-one would call them over-rated because of it. Shooting is arguably Rondo's only real weakness, yet people want to use it as an excuse to pull him down, ignoring the fact that it hasn't stopped him being incredibly effective.

[BJ43]

I think the funny thing is, seeing who the hate is coming from.

Most of it (not all, but majority) is coming from Bulls fans or more perhaps Rose homers. It's like they're afraid that Rondo is elevating to a new level whilst Rose may never be the same, like they have to protect his owner. The other is the Chris Paul fans which astounds me as he is at this moment, the undisputed top PG in the league. I don't get the hate there.

Meanwhile, I'm seeing a lot of praise and respect coming from Laker (although OP is a Laker fan, we all have dumb fans), Heat and Knick fans - all massive Celtic rivals. Quite an astonishing thread this one

You know what, thanks for wasting my time. I just went through all 20pgs of this thread and there's a total of THREE Bulls fans that I recognised posting in here, including myself. Unless I've missed someone who is a Bulls fan but has no way of being recognised, i.e. no Bulls player in avatar or signature, no chicago location, no Bulls related name, and in no way identified themselves as a Bulls fan, nor did I recognise them from the Bulls board

So other than the 1 poster with the Rose avatar who posted about 100 times, there's me and one other Bulls fan I recognised. What I wrote was all positive and what the other Bulls poster wrote was

I suppose kevin garnett made the celtics the 2nd best defensive team in the league all by himself?

opposing point guards had an EFG% of 41.8 when rondo was on the floor this season. they scored a mere .75 points per possession. this was not done by smoke and mirrors

for the "he just fills up the stat sheet" crowd, if others could do the same they would

So 2 out of 3 Bulls posters were supporting/defending Rondo, so if you write something like "Most of it (not all, but majority) is coming from Bulls fans or more perhaps Rose homers. It's like they're afraid that Rondo is elevating to a new level whilst Rose may never be the same" then I'm going to call you out on it...because 1 poster making 100 posts doesn't equal "majority of Bulls fans"

Thanks again for wasting my time...

[Triple M]

First off, its pretty lame to use the " well how come PG A can't put up numbers like Rondo" argument for two reasons: 1.) I never said that he was completely devoid of talent because saying so would be falsehood. I simply stated that he was overrated in regards to him being ranked above either Derrick Rose, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Russell Westbrook, Steve Nash, or Tony Parker, nothing more, nothing less! He possesses all of the skills to flourish with the Boston Celtics as currently constructed and a few other teams with multiple players capable of creating their own offense. 2.) The sample-size that we have to judge said PG replacements is not large enough. Rajon Rondo is in fact a product of the Celtic's system and teams realize that he lacks a consistent offensive repertoire, let alone can't even hit free throws at a respectable clip. He is a very good point guard that has some flashy moves and makes some brilliant passes, heck he even is a great rebounder for his position, but beyond that he is not a threat. No team (including the Heat, which is probably not the best tactic for them since he has made a few mid-range baskets this series) respects his offensive game whatsoever. Oh yeah, and I watch plenty of Celtics games seeing as how they're one of the teams I pay for on league pass pal.

The team he is on currently doesn't have players who can create for them selves consistently other than Pierce and even his ability to create offense has decreased over the years.

[og15]

This is what I love about the general board. Player is in the midst of historic playoff performance, elevating his game from his already elite regular season production, and we get threads calling him over-rated, fueled by people who either post to wind up opposing fans (bad) or genuinely believe it (worse). And in this thread, apparently it's all because Rondo's not a great shooter. I'm guessing Jason Kidd's career means nothing to you, OP? Or maybe we've all been over-rating Magic Johnson all this time - after all, he didn't have a great outside shooting touch.

Kidd and Magic are better shooters than Rondo, maybe not pull up, but much better at the FT line and could more reliably make open jump shots. I don't think the OP was criticizing him for not being a great shooter, but for being a below average one. It would make no sense to criticize him for not being a great shooter when not all the other guys ranked above him by the OP are great shooters.

My point wasn't to straight up compare Rondo's shooting to Kidd's or Magic's. The point was that Magic is considered one of the best ever, and Kidd is considered one of the best point guards of his era, yet neither of them were great shooters (and the case could be made that early in their careers neither were even particularly good shooters, Kidd especially, who couldn't even rely upon effectiveness and efficiency from mid-range and in to mask his lack of a jump shot like Magic did) and no-one would call them over-rated because of it. Shooting is arguably Rondo's only real weakness, yet people want to use it as an excuse to pull him down, ignoring the fact that it hasn't stopped him being incredibly effective.

Yea, doesn't make much sense to just disregard him altogether because he is a poor shooter.

[Ctownbulls]

Tell us who your top five point guard are, why they are better than rondo, and then we can have a discussion

in the meantime, cool story bro!!!

Rose
Westbrook
Deron
Parker
Paul

Fact of the matter is, only 2 of those PG's are still in the playoffs. One of them didn't even make the playoffs. The way Rondo is playing right now, it is hard to argue that he is not in the top pg discussion. He is definitely on par with all of those players and I am about as big of a Rose fan as there is.

[cyp316]

Rondo is the best PG in the league, and it isn't even close. If he can keep developing his outside shot, like J-Kidd did mid to late in this career, Rajon Rondo will go down as a top 10 PG of all time.

Yes Kenny!

[624]

Rondo is the best PG in the league, and it isn't even close.

Posts like this are why this thread exists.

[jeff1624]

Tell us who your top five point guard are, why they are better than rondo, and then we can have a discussion

in the meantime, cool story bro!!!

Rose
Westbrook
Deron
Parker
Paul

Fact of the matter is, only 2 of those PG's are still in the playoffs. One of them didn't even make the playoffs. The way Rondo is playing right now, it is hard to argue that he is not in the top pg discussion. He is definitely on par with all of those players and I am about as big of a Rose fan as there is.

Because Rondo would be in the WCF is he were the clippers' starting PG and not Paul. Rondo would have made the playoffs with the team Deron was playing with.

If Rose hadn't torn his ACL the Celtics wouldn't even be in the ECF.

[DaGreatLewdini]

I didn't want to waste my time, so I didnt read this whole thread, so when you wrote the above I decided to read just the last 5 pages and other myself I only saw one 'Bulls fan' posting, and they only joined 2 months ago, so I'm not sure if they're even a Bulls fan, or someone posing to make us look bad

Having said that seeing that my post was full of compliments for Rondo and theirs wasn't so that's 50% not sure where the 'majority' of it being Bulls fans comes from, unless the first 13 pages of this thread are full of them?

I doubt any knowledgeable Bulls fans would be hating on Rondo for his actual play this series. No issues with anyone not liking him for who he is on the court, personally I can't stand him, but that doesn't mean he isnt a great player worthy of the praise he's getting.

I've never understood the idea that putting one player down can make your player look better because it doesn't, each player is responsible for what they do and should be judged on that alone, not compared to what others are doing in completely different situations/circumstances, and right now we have no idea what Rose will be like when he returns. BUT there's no doubt that Rondo is playing on a level that in all honesty has him as the clear MVP for either team in this series, and that's saying alot considering the talent between these 2 teams

First off I would like to state that I've been lurking the RealGm boards since I started College back in 09'. I've been a die hard Bulls/Basketball fan since 99' when I first started watching basketball. I joined this year since my course load is now lighter due to me becoming a Senior, so I'm definitely not a troll poster, however I am very opinionated. I would like to say that I'm a fairly knowledgeable Bulls fan and believing that Rondo isn't a top 4-5 PG, which putting him there would make him overrated, =/= hating on him. I think what needs to be put into perspective is how Rondo has become overrated. As I've said multiple times before in this thread, I believe he is an excellent talent and being on the Celtics is the perfect situation for him. However, I don't believe that he is the best point guard in the league or even top 4-5. I believe Rose, Paul, Westbrook, Williams, and Parker/Nash are all better PG's. I can acknowledge however, that Rondo certainly has been on a rampant pace in the ECF's thus far. He has certainly helped his team in a significant manner. I just believe that the sample-size along with other circumstances have led to his success and led to many posts on the Gen. Board such as "Rondo's the best Pure Point Guard" or "Rondo's the best Point Guard and it isn't even close", which I believe is simply fallacious.

[sca]

Tell us who your top five point guard are, why they are better than rondo, and then we can have a discussion

in the meantime, cool story bro!!!

Rose
Westbrook
Deron
Parker
Paul

Fact of the matter is, only 2 of those PG's are still in the playoffs. One of them didn't even make the playoffs. The way Rondo is playing right now, it is hard to argue that he is not in the top pg discussion. He is definitely on par with all of those players and I am about as big of a Rose fan as there is.

These boards definitely need more fans like you. It's all "LOL Rondo suxxx" or "he's like teh best PG eva!11!!1!!" now.

BTW, it's a shame that Rose got injured. When healthy, he was the best PG IMO.

[Tai]

Because Rondo would be in the WCF is he were the clippers' starting PG and not Paul. Rondo would have made the playoffs with the team Deron was playing with.

If Rose hadn't torn his ACL the Celtics wouldn't even be in the ECF.

Let's be real, we don't know this. Stop trying to insist we do. If you'd take the Bulls with a healthy Rose over the C's, fine. But stop pushing the "sure thing" attitude.

[smith2373]

I want to see Rondo without Pierce, Allen, Garnett and put up numbers like Deron Williams and Chris Paul then come talk to me.

You mean like sunday 15 April 2012 when Rondo has stats like 20pts, 16ast and 6rbs. 16 assists with Pietrus, Bradley, Stiemsma and Bass in the starting 5.

[Kobe8Forever]

Sorry Bulls fans, but Rondo is the best PG in the NBA.

Never was a huge fan personally, but its hard to deny at this point. He has consistently shown another level in the playoffs that none of the other contenders have reached. He isn't a great shooter, but he is still the best basketball player at the PG position. This really just goes to show how elite he is at what he does.

I think what he is doing against the Heat, when viewed in the context of Roses's struggles, says a lot. I hope Rose can recover and continuing building on his great improvements so far. But yes, he would have to IMPROVE from his pre-injury level to be at Rondo's current level.