Tragic night for NBA

[Severn Hoos]

Many years ago, I wrote a somewhat tongue-in-cheek article on the eve of the LeBron draft "exposing" the conspiracies of previous drafts, while predicting that the Grizzlies would get the 1st pick. The Grizzlies were run by Jerry West at the time, and stood to lose their pick if it didn't come up #1. So the outcomes for them were: the best prospect in a generation, or nothing. Well, they had a very small chance of winning (I think they were somewhere around 6th worst that year), but they did jump all the way to #2. Just not high enough, and the pick went to the Pistons, who inexplicably used it on Darko.

The point is, there's always a way to claim a conspiracy after the fact. And as has been pointed out, just about any result would have been fodder for the theories:

Charlotte - Stern helps MJ
Nets - build up the franchise as it's heading to Brooklyn, build synergy with Jay-Z
Cleveland - still paying off the LeBron debacle with interest
Hornets - League helps their own

The Wiz were just about the only team who could have won it for whom there wouldn't have been a cry about conspiracies. (Although the other two times did fit nicely - MJ becomes owner, and right after Abe died.)

So yeah, it's fun to poke the league about but really, you could make a case for any outcome - kind of like Jean Dixon's "predictions".


And last note: the reason they don't televise live is that there would be no buildup, no suspense. They have to determine the 1st pick first, then 2nd, and so on. The suspense of the broadcast would last about 7 seconds, then it'd be just filling out the rest of the scorecard. (Someone here - Ruz? - has proposed a system that could still be live AND go in reverse order, but it'd be tough to pull off.)

It's too bad that they value the ratings over the integrity of showing it live, but that's the NBA for you. And really, people are talking about this today. Do you really think David Stern is upset over that development?

[Ruzious]

^^^ I agree in part. The league should at least show the actual drawing on a net broadcast. For what it's worth, they do have a number of media representatives in to observe the proceedings, as well as representatives from every team. A woman reporting for a Cleveland paper -- Mary something -- has been to the last two. She described the procedure and says she can't imagine how it could be rigged. Maybe she just lacks imagination.

I heard her interviewed by Mike & Mike this AM. At the end of the interview - after sounding like a spokesperson for the NBA's accounting firm - she made some wierd comments that M&M didn't follow up on - maybe because they were running out of time or maybe because they thought she was a blithering idiot. She said this was the first drawing where they had to take multiple takes. She said NO and Char both got 1st and 2nd in both takes. But right after that, she said in the 5th take, the Wizards got the 1st pick. Didn't anyone else here that? If so, did you understand what she was talking about?

[dobrojim]

[snip]
And last note: the reason they don't televise live is that there would be no buildup, no suspense. They have to determine the 1st pick first, then 2nd, and so on. The suspense of the broadcast would last about 7 seconds, then it'd be just filling out the rest of the scorecard. (Someone here - Ruz? - has proposed a system that could still be live AND go in reverse order, but it'd be tough to pull off.)

It's too bad that they value the ratings over the integrity of showing it live, but that's the NBA for you. And really, people are talking about this today. Do you really think David Stern is upset over that development?

But that's only if they kept the lotto procedure the same.
I've posted this before ....
Take team 14 - give it 3 cards, take team 13, give them 2 cards, take team 12,
give them one card.
Put cards in a barrel, roll the barrel then draw. That is pick 14.

Add a card for each of the 2 remaining teams plus one card for team at 11.
Repeat the drawing and ignore any card drawn for a team that has already
been picked.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

That would be GREAT on live TV and a fair way to bias the lottery.

[cwb3]

I had figured "they" were going to throw it Brooklyn's way. . .what do I know about rigged lotteries?

[Severn Hoos]

^^^ I agree in part. The league should at least show the actual drawing on a net broadcast. For what it's worth, they do have a number of media representatives in to observe the proceedings, as well as representatives from every team. A woman reporting for a Cleveland paper -- Mary something -- has been to the last two. She described the procedure and says she can't imagine how it could be rigged. Maybe she just lacks imagination.

I heard her interviewed by Mike & Mike this AM. At the end of the interview - after sounding like a spokesperson for the NBA's accounting firm - she made some wierd comments that M&M didn't follow up on - maybe because they were running out of time or maybe because they thought she was a blithering idiot. She said this was the first drawing where they had to take multiple takes. She said NO and Char both got 1st and 2nd in both takes. But right after that, she said in the 5th take, the Wizards got the 1st pick. Didn't anyone else here that? If so, did you understand what she was talking about?

I didn't hear it, but based on your description, I would assume it went something like this:

1st set of #'s selected were assigned to NO. Hornets get 1st pick.
2nd set of #'s: Charlotte. Bobcats get 2nd pick.
3rd set of #s: NO again. Throw that one out, since they were already selected.
4th set of #s: Charlotte again. Same as above.
5th set of numbers: Washington. Wiz get 3rd pick.

I think this would still hold true even if the "other" pick from the Hornets came up as the 3rd set of #s. I seem to remember a rule that if a team has two slots in the Lottery and moves up with one of them, they are ineligible to move up with the other. Maybe happened last year, since the Cavs "won" the lottery with the Clippers' pick, not their own - which had the most chances to win?

[Severn Hoos]

[snip]
And last note: the reason they don't televise live is that there would be no buildup, no suspense. They have to determine the 1st pick first, then 2nd, and so on. The suspense of the broadcast would last about 7 seconds, then it'd be just filling out the rest of the scorecard. (Someone here - Ruz? - has proposed a system that could still be live AND go in reverse order, but it'd be tough to pull off.)

It's too bad that they value the ratings over the integrity of showing it live, but that's the NBA for you. And really, people are talking about this today. Do you really think David Stern is upset over that development?

But that's only if they kept the lotto procedure the same.
I've posted this before ....
Take team 14 - give it 3 cards, take team 13, give them 2 cards, take team 12,
give them one card.
Put cards in a barrel, roll the barrel then draw. That is pick 14.

Add a card for each of the 2 remaining teams plus one card for team at 11.
Repeat the drawing and ignore any card drawn for a team that has already
been picked.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

That would be GREAT on live TV and a fair way to bias the lottery.

Sorry, jim - I knew it was an oldtimer who had proposed it, should have given you credit!

[dobrojim]

for the record, I didn't devise this scheme for which credit should go back
to someone from the old rec.sport.basketball.pro days of Usenet.
I think Bobby Davis and he dubbed it the Sliding Window.

To me it's more elegant than the current method -
A team can fall 3 places or move all the way to the top.
The local ordering would be more variable around a given position.

[Ruzious]

^^^ I agree in part. The league should at least show the actual drawing on a net broadcast. For what it's worth, they do have a number of media representatives in to observe the proceedings, as well as representatives from every team. A woman reporting for a Cleveland paper -- Mary something -- has been to the last two. She described the procedure and says she can't imagine how it could be rigged. Maybe she just lacks imagination.

I heard her interviewed by Mike & Mike this AM. At the end of the interview - after sounding like a spokesperson for the NBA's accounting firm - she made some wierd comments that M&M didn't follow up on - maybe because they were running out of time or maybe because they thought she was a blithering idiot. She said this was the first drawing where they had to take multiple takes. She said NO and Char both got 1st and 2nd in both takes. But right after that, she said in the 5th take, the Wizards got the 1st pick. Didn't anyone else here that? If so, did you understand what she was talking about?

I didn't hear it, but based on your description, I would assume it went something like this:

1st set of #'s selected were assigned to NO. Hornets get 1st pick.
2nd set of #'s: Charlotte. Bobcats get 2nd pick.
3rd set of #s: NO again. Throw that one out, since they were already selected.
4th set of #s: Charlotte again. Same as above.
5th set of numbers: Washington. Wiz get 3rd pick.

I think this would still hold true even if the "other" pick from the Hornets came up as the 3rd set of #s. I seem to remember a rule that if a team has two slots in the Lottery and moves up with one of them, they are ineligible to move up with the other. Maybe happened last year, since the Cavs "won" the lottery with the Clippers' pick, not their own - which had the most chances to win?

Probably so, but then her wording was awful - I don't have a photographic memory, but I'm sure she said - on the 5th try, the Wizards got the first pick.

[dangermouse]

Wild and crazy conspiracy theories that have been proven true:

Operation Mockingbird, Operation Northwoods, Operation Paperclip, Chicago throwing the 1919 World Series, Iran-Contra, Gulf of Tonkin fabricated attack, Hitler firebombing the Reichstag and blaming commie Russians, American presidents and other important people meeting at Bohemian Grove and dancing around in their underwear infront of a giant owl.... NBA refs cheating to beat Vegas...

Soon to add to that list:

Stern bending the corner of the New York envelope to give them Ewing.

Stern gifting the new NO owners Anthony Davis and inviting them along to watch the whole charade.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I have no problem believing the NBA would like to rig the lottery and has, in fact, briefly considered it in the past. But they're not smart enough to pull it off without someone finding out about it. You can't keep a secret in this country for five minutes. If the lottery was fixed we'd have found out about it before Patrick Ewing was selected first overall.

I was in the military for a while. I believe you can keep a secret. I could tell you a secret but I would have to kill you. Just kidding about that …

What I do believe is people are generally naive, trusting, and more at ease being grounded in conventional wisdom. People in general WANT to think in-the-box. Some people are such literalists and so pragmatic that everything must be scientifically provable for them to accept it. It is way safer to stay in the middle of the pack and to be conventional.

Not me.

If I had to guess, I would say David Stern is a puppet and either a rouge owner or two or some other criminal enterprise is very much in play at the highest echelon of the NBA. The game is probably completely fair and competitive at the level of players and with 90-95% of officials. However, I think there are probably 3-5 totally connected officials. I mean straight up, something-out-of Goodfellas type dudes. Call them "made men". Otherwise, I think the rest of the refs are human and make honest mistakes. I think at most, 5-10% of the time the refs sway the competitive balance. At times, they outright CHEAT to make outcomes favorable to whatever those in play want.

At the highest level, I think the league wants certain teams to win. Just follow the money trail...

Boston got past Atlanta. Miami will beat Boston. OKC may come back and beat the Spurs--wouldn't surprise me at all to see a game 7 in that series go the Thunder's way. I expect to see Lebron vs Durant in the Finals now, after the Spurs lost the way they did today. I also expect Boston will not be allowed to lose game 3 or 4 in Boston.

This will be one of the silliest things I ever posted if none of this comes true. I am up late one night just postulating. (Remember what I guessed correctly about Gil and gun gate.) NO, I don't think Ted is a rogue owner. We didn't get Anthony Davis. I think there are far too many poorly officiated games for it to be random. The lottery was BS. Big time. So, my theory above is just my attempt to rationalize my beliefs.

If you see two game sevens and OKC/MIA in the finals, then you might believe me. Right?

LAST BUT NOT LEAST: Personally, I don't care if the NBA is crooked as hell. I don't want to know. I enjoy the games and even the drama of teams getting ripped off. When Washington gets good and the Wizards start getting calls (saw that begin to happen this season--biased refereeing. Not playoff-outcome-determining cheating, as I've seen lately). I will love it!

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Wild and crazy conspiracy theories that have been proven true:

Operation Mockingbird, Operation Northwoods, Operation Paperclip, Chicago throwing the 1919 World Series, Iran-Contra, Gulf of Tonkin fabricated attack, Hitler firebombing the Reichstag and blaming commie Russians, American presidents and other important people meeting at Bohemian Grove and dancing around in their underwear infront of a giant owl.... NBA refs cheating to beat Vegas...

Soon to add to that list:

Stern bending the corner of the New York envelope to give them Ewing.

Stern gifting the new NO owners Anthony Davis and inviting them along to watch the whole charade.

I read so much about the JFK assassination that Johnny Roselli, Charles Nicolleti, and possibly James Files made a lot of sense. Oswald, David Ferrie, CIA, Bush family oil interest, Howard Hunt, Kennedys being blackmailed, Marilyn Murdered--that believe it or not, it started to all make sense to me. When you look at who comprised the Warren Commission it was pretty obvious a call was put in to take JFK out at the highest level. Oswald was part of something. He could have actually been CIA trying to stop the assassination, but actually framed as part of the smoothest hit ever. How were police tipped off he was in a theater and why was he there alone if he was not framed? And then he was killed after arrest … right! I think there were likely a couple of three-man teams assigned to carry out the assassination. Another group unsuccessfully tried to abort it or were set to take the fall. Ruby being a Chicago gangster also completed the whole process.

One thing I believe I recognize when I see it is a triangulated crossfire. There was definitely more than one shooter and far more rounds involved.

My opinion is for whatever reasons, JFK was taken out and some politicos were okay with it. There were a lot of reasons for the Mafia interests in New Orleans, Florida, Chicago, and Cuba to work with the CIA to try to get rid of Castro. The Kennedy brothers in effect bit the hands that fed them when they cracked down on the mob and when the Bay of Pigs incident went down. On top of that JFK really was a horn dog who messed with Marilyn Monroe, Judith Exner, and recently was revealed to have practically raped a student visitor to the White House.

Yep, that's a President who could be sanctioned by our own IMO. He may have been a visionary with things like the Peace Corps and with his efforts to desegregate southern schools, but JFK stepped on too many toes and made some mistakes that IMO cost him his life. Even 15 years after his assassination Sam Giancana and Johnny Roselli were murdered--right about the time Congressional inquiries questioned the Warren Report.

A lot of people don't want to believe conspiracy theories. Some of them make a ton of sense.

The NBA is turning into good theater, bad drama, or perhaps nothing is going on at all. Human error on the part of referees is a good, conventional way of looking at things. So is the point of view that says there is no way the lottery is rigged. No one could keep that a secret very long would be a way to rationalize a belief that it can't be fixed.

[Severn Hoos]

Hey CCJ - I highly recommend Charles Colson's Born Again to you. Chuck was a bad man who became and remained a good man through God's grace, and recently went home to be with the Lord. It's a great book, and I really do think you'd enjoy it.

I mention it here because he does a chapter on conspiracies that changed my view of them forever. He wrote about the theory that the Resurrection was a conspiracy, where the Disciples all agreed to hide Jesus' body and tell the world he was raised from the dead. They all went to their graves - many in excruciatingly painful and premature ways - saying that Jesus was risen. If it was indeed a conspiracy, they would have been the best of all time at keeping the secret.

He then described the Watergate conspiracy. He and a few others agreed to a cover story that they would all stick to no matter what. And it started unraveling in less than 24 hours. His point was that he and the other men were only facing prison and loss of reputation, and yet couldn't keep a story going for more than a day. The Disciples kept telling the same story for years, despite brutal persecution, torture, and death. We all have to decide for ourselves if they were sincere, but their actions and faithfulness speak very loudly in this case.

I do think there are conspiracies, and some things can be hidden for a period of time. But as the famous quote that is attributed to Lincoln goes, "you can fool some of the people all of the time, and you can fool all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time."

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Sev, I'll check it out. I know it will take God's grace for me, too. Thanks.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I have no problem believing the NBA would like to rig the lottery and has, in fact, briefly considered it in the past. But they're not smart enough to pull it off without someone finding out about it. You can't keep a secret in this country for five minutes. If the lottery was fixed we'd have found out about it before Patrick Ewing was selected first overall.

I was in the military for a while. I believe you can keep a secret. I could tell you a secret but I would have to kill you. Just kidding about that …

What I do believe is people are generally naive, trusting, and more at ease being grounded in conventional wisdom. People in general WANT to think in-the-box. Some people are such literalists and so pragmatic that everything must be scientifically provable for them to accept it. It is way safer to stay in the middle of the pack and to be conventional.

Not me.

If I had to guess, I would say David Stern is a puppet and either a rouge owner or two or some other criminal enterprise is very much in play at the highest echelon of the NBA. The game is probably completely fair and competitive at the level of players and with 90-95% of officials. However, I think there are probably 3-5 totally connected officials. I mean straight up, something-out-of Goodfellas type dudes. Call them "made men". Otherwise, I think the rest of the refs are human and make honest mistakes. I think at most, 5-10% of the time the refs sway the competitive balance. At times, they outright CHEAT to make outcomes favorable to whatever those in play want.

At the highest level, I think the league wants certain teams to win. Just follow the money trail...

Boston got past Atlanta. Miami will beat Boston. OKC may come back and beat the Spurs--wouldn't surprise me at all to see a game 7 in that series go the Thunder's way. I expect to see Lebron vs Durant in the Finals now, after the Spurs lost the way they did today. I also expect Boston will not be allowed to lose game 3 or 4 in Boston.

This will be one of the silliest things I ever posted if none of this comes true. I am up late one night just postulating. (Remember what I guessed correctly about Gil and gun gate.) NO, I don't think Ted is a rogue owner. We didn't get Anthony Davis. I think there are far too many poorly officiated games for it to be random. The lottery was BS. Big time. So, my theory above is just my attempt to rationalize my beliefs.

If you see two game sevens and OKC/MIA in the finals, then you might believe me. Right?

LAST BUT NOT LEAST: Personally, I don't care if the NBA is crooked as hell. I don't want to know. I enjoy the games and even the drama of teams getting ripped off. When Washington gets good and the Wizards start getting calls (saw that begin to happen this season--biased refereeing. Not playoff-outcome-determining cheating, as I've seen lately). I will love it!

Refs came through for Boston in games three and four. Lebron could not commit a foul in Miami. Lebron fouls out for the first time in four years in Boston! That series will go 7 and Miami will win.

Also, I expect OKC will come back and beat the Spurs.

[Nivek]

^^^ I agree in part. The league should at least show the actual drawing on a net broadcast. For what it's worth, they do have a number of media representatives in to observe the proceedings, as well as representatives from every team. A woman reporting for a Cleveland paper -- Mary something -- has been to the last two. She described the procedure and says she can't imagine how it could be rigged. Maybe she just lacks imagination.

I heard her interviewed by Mike & Mike this AM. At the end of the interview - after sounding like a spokesperson for the NBA's accounting firm - she made some wierd comments that M&M didn't follow up on - maybe because they were running out of time or maybe because they thought she was a blithering idiot. She said this was the first drawing where they had to take multiple takes. She said NO and Char both got 1st and 2nd in both takes. But right after that, she said in the 5th take, the Wizards got the 1st pick. Didn't anyone else here that? If so, did you understand what she was talking about?

What she said made sense to me. Here's what I remember her saying -- not that it took three takes to get the top pick, but that it was the first time she'd seen a team's ball come out of the hopper multiple times.

With each team having multiple balls in the hopper (I know they're combinations, but "balls" is easier), I'm sorta surprised they've never had this happen before. Maybe it's just the first time she's seen it. Anyway, I think what she saw went something like:

- Ball #1: New Orleans -- Hornets get the first pick.
- Ball #2: New Orleans -- discarded since they already have pick #1
- Ball #3: Charlotte -- Bobcats get the 2nd pick
- Ball #4: Charlotte -- discarded since they already have pick #2
- Ball #5: Washington -- Wizards get the 3rd pick

Back when I ran a HIGH intensity fantasy basketball league, we had a weighted draft lottery. There were lots of times we had a scenario like the one above.

EDIT: I see that Sev already covered the same ground. She might have said that on the 5th try the Wiz got the 1st pick, but what she meant was that they got the third pick.

[Ruzious]

EDIT: I see that Sev already covered the same ground. She might have said that on the 5th try the Wiz got the 1st pick, but what she meant was that they got the third pick.

Yes. She worded it incorrectly and in a way that would cause someone who wasn't familiar with the process (like me) to be very confused.

[Severn Hoos]

Thanks, Kev - and didn't the Wiz come up 2nd or 3rd after getting 1st in 2010? Figures they'd use up all their luck in one year....

[Severn Hoos]

BTW, interesting trend as it relates to tanking:

2009 - Wiz and Clippers tie for 2nd worst record. Wiz win tiebreak drawing. Clipps win Lottery.
2010 - Wiz and Warriors tie for 4th worst record. Warriors win drawing. Wiz win Lottery.
2012 - Wiz finish 1 game behind Hornets. Hornets win Lottery. (Also, Cavs won drawing for 3rd place, Hornets won Lottery.)

In all 3 instances, winning 1 more game and "dropping" in the Lottery order would have (theoretically) resulted in getting the #1 pick. Just goes to show - tanking pays, but don't overdo it. And hope you lose the tiebreaker.

[Bickerstaff]

Hey CCJ - I highly recommend Charles Colson's Born Again to you. Chuck was a bad man who became and remained a good man through God's grace, and recently went home to be with the Lord.

One person's "good man" is another person's bigot and warmonger. To each his own, I guess.

[Severn Hoos]

Hey CCJ - I highly recommend Charles Colson's Born Again to you. Chuck was a bad man who became and remained a good man through God's grace, and recently went home to be with the Lord.

One person's "good man" is another person's bigot and warmonger. To each his own, I guess.

Normally, I would ignore such a comment, but I felt it was so unwarranted, I wanted to respond. So I did a google search on "Chuck Colson bigot" and was immediately sorry I did, as I saw a sampling of true hatred spewed at a man who lived out his faith in very real situations, particularly in Prison ministry. And I shed a tear for this country.