The 2012 NBA Draft: 6th & 11th picks, and some random 2nds.

[Sabzi]

and he missed like 19 games his junior season with a foot injury I don't want a injury player at #6
#Drummond4life

did you not even read my wingspan post at 6'9"? way more than bayless, and he played a full season last yr after the foot injury, I'd say he's fully healed. How many knee surgeries did Roy have and we still drafted him?

funny you didn't reply to my stats post...it's ok though....and where did you get that 6'9" wingspan from again? Your ass you say? Ok gotcha

How many guys finished top 10 in assists and won a ring in the last decade?

[Case2012]

After watching TRoss' highlights, I'm very intrigued. Lillard and Ross in the backcourt would be scary offensively. Also, I like his game way more than Lamb, excellent catch and shoot and off the dribble shooter. Also looks like he has a really high motor, much like Lillard. The only reason I hesitate on drafting a SG is because we have yet to see what EWill can do with consistent minutes. We were just starting to see good things from him before his injury. The guy has a high motor and jumps out the rose garden.

[Blazinaway]

Chill out folks...

LOL, I just got back, had work to do, and the guy tells me I pulled a 6'9" wingspan out of my ass? looks like we got a poster here who should head to O'live or one of the other places that conduct themselves like that. I saw the 6'9" reference in an analysis of Lillard, and many sites reference his wingspan as very long or very good. Lillard also played 4 yrs as PG and his efficiency and low turnover rate standout. 4 assists is not great but considering who he had to pass to and how he was relied upon to score is that a big surprise? I like the guy, but further workouts will tell a lot of where he goes in the draft.

[Tommy Sneakers]

What do you guys think of Dion Waiters? I have a draft board that I apparently had enough time to make haha, but I have him listed as one of my most underrated prospects. This kid has it all for a kid projected to go as low as 17 on some sites.

He gets underrated because he didn't have great numbers and came off the bench. Syracuse was just so deep that they didn't need to rely on him. He was the best player on the team despite coming off the bench. He was the best scorer and the best perimeter defender. Boeheim just got set with his lineup and never changed it because they kept winning.

Dion is not a point guard. He may be able to play the point, but he is best at the 2 where he can focus on scoring (similar to someone like Ellis). He is a bit short for an NBA SG, but his strength and quickness allow him to be able to guard players bigger than him. He is really explosive and is a great finisher. He is patient with the ball. He doesn't often iso and take someone one-on-one. Instead he looks for an opportunity and then attacks. He was phenomenal in transition for Syracuse. He played the passing lanes great. And once he got out in the open court, it was hard to stop him.

I would love if we took him at 11. Although I'm a little biased because I'm a diehard Syracuse fan.

[PDXKnight]

What do you guys think of Dion Waiters? I have a draft board that I apparently had enough time to make haha, but I have him listed as one of my most underrated prospects. This kid has it all for a kid projected to go as low as 17 on some sites.

He gets underrated because he didn't have great numbers and came off the bench. Syracuse was just so deep that they didn't need to rely on him. He was the best player on the team despite coming off the bench. He was the best scorer and the best perimeter defender. Boeheim just got set with his lineup and never changed it because they kept winning.

Dion is not a point guard. He may be able to play the point, but he is best at the 2 where he can focus on scoring (similar to someone like Ellis). He is a bit short for an NBA SG, but his strength and quickness allow him to be able to guard players bigger than him. He is really explosive and is a great finisher. He is patient with the ball. He doesn't often iso and take someone one-on-one. Instead he looks for an opportunity and then attacks. He was phenomenal in transition for Syracuse. He played the passing lanes great. And once he got out in the open court, it was hard to stop him.

I would love if we took him at 11. Although I'm a little biased because I'm a diehard Syracuse fan.

No I think you're absolutely right on this one. I hadn't seen much of waiters and when I looked up his videos I found myself becoming more impressed with him after every play. I'd be very much ok with drafting him at 11 as well, though if we could get him lower trading down could be plausible as well.

[PDXKnight]

After watching TRoss' highlights, I'm very intrigued. Lillard and Ross in the backcourt would be scary offensively. Also, I like his game way more than Lamb, excellent catch and shoot and off the dribble shooter. Also looks like he has a really high motor, much like Lillard. The only reason I hesitate on drafting a SG is because we have yet to see what EWill can do with consistent minutes. We were just starting to see good things from him before his injury. The guy has a high motor and jumps out the rose garden.

We already made the mistake of not taking the best player available with Chris Paul back in the day. He may be the best player available at 11 and I wouldn't think twice about taking him there.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

I think Dion will be a good pick for any team. Good passer and defender so he will fit into any team mentality. Good scoring instincts so he has good upside. I expect he will be a top 3 SG out of this draft (which is deep at that position), although it will take a few years.


As for Lillard, he has boom/bust potential. I personally think a lot of Westbrooks success comes from playing next to Durant/Harden. Westbrook gets to dominate the ball, but the defensive focus is elsewhere, so Westbrook gets to post great stats. Same for Lillard - if you could put him next to a true superstar he will shine, otherwise he will join a long list of score first PG's who couldn't hack it as the #1 option. Since we don't have a superstar perimeter player, I think Lillard would fail here.


Ross could go either way. He is a great athlete, but I am unsold on his basketball skills. I think at best he is a bigger version of Matthews - similar defense and can hit a set shot, but not much in the way of handles and cannot shoot on the move.

How many guys finished top 10 in assists and won a ring in the last decade?

Exactly my worry about Marshall. If I had to hazard a guess, maybe Jason Kidd? However, it took Kidd forever to finally win a ring, and it was as a #3/#4 option at best after he learned to shoot 3 pointers. Also Kidd scored pretty well in college. The thing is, to be a decent NBA player, you have to be a good scorer at lower levels of basketball. All the decent "pure" point guards in the NBA could be a go-to scorer at the college level.

[PDXKnight]

Let the rumors begin...
http://morningjournal.com/articles/2012 ... viewmode=4

One rumor flying around has the Cavs offering their Nos. 4 and 24 picks to Charlotte for the Bobcats’ No. 2. Another one is 4 and 24 for Portland’s 6 and 11.

I would assume that they would have to be pretty sold on Drummond or Beal

Or Kidd-Gilchrist.... That's my bet.

[fishnc]

How many guys finished top 10 in assists and won a ring in the last decade?

Exactly my worry about Marshall. If I had to hazard a guess, maybe Jason Kidd? However, it took Kidd forever to finally win a ring, and it was as a #3/#4 option at best after he learned to shoot 3 pointers. Also Kidd scored pretty well in college. The thing is, to be a decent NBA player, you have to be a good scorer at lower levels of basketball. All the decent "pure" point guards in the NBA could be a go-to scorer at the college level.

You're not drafting Marshall to ever be more than #3 or #4 option. His only role is to run the offense and knock down open threes at a decent rate.

[LOOSH]

Terrence Ross reminds me of Nick Young quite a bit, can get his shot off and capable of some big time scoring output, but a bit reckless with the ball and a not a good finisher

[PDXKnight]

Terrence Ross reminds me of Nick Young quite a bit, can get his shot off and capable of some big time scoring output, but a bit reckless with the ball and a not a good finisher

I see a lot more athleticism from him than I do from Lillard. At number 11 I'm willing to risk that he can't figure things out. I would've thought Nic Young would pan out considering that he had all the physical skills on paper. I think Ross is worth a shot and at 11 we're much better off taking a risk than at 6. If we can get one of the big five (as I like to think of them) at number 6 then we will probably be fine taking Ross at 11. I wouldn't be too upset if Waiters is our man either.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

How many guys finished top 10 in assists and won a ring in the last decade?

Exactly my worry about Marshall. If I had to hazard a guess, maybe Jason Kidd? However, it took Kidd forever to finally win a ring, and it was as a #3/#4 option at best after he learned to shoot 3 pointers. Also Kidd scored pretty well in college. The thing is, to be a decent NBA player, you have to be a good scorer at lower levels of basketball. All the decent "pure" point guards in the NBA could be a go-to scorer at the college level.

You're not drafting Marshall to ever be more than #3 or #4 option. His only role is to run the offense and knock down open threes at a decent rate.

The point I was making was that Marshall never proved he was a #3/#4 scoring option on an NBA team. The vast majority of NBA starters (especially positions 1-4) were able to score in college.

Even the pure point guards like Jason Kidd or Andre Miller scored a lot more in college than Marshall did. Players who don't score in college but rack up assists, do not translate to the NBA very often. Maybe Marshall was a special circumstance (because of a loaded team), but a lot of people around here seem to think it is a given that his game will translate.

Don't get me wrong, I still like Marshall and have him as my #1 PG in the draft, but none of the PG's in this draft are guaranteed to make a difference at the NBA level. If there is a better player than Marshall at 11, I wouldn't bet on Marshall filling our PGOTF need and reach for him because of that need.

[jebdrbhjb]

Why are we talking about drafting another PG in the first round? I thought the NBA draft gods had smiled on us last year and we'd be able to pick Kenneth Faried but instead we picked Nolan Smith. Like him or hate him, we have no idea what kind of PG he can be, particularly since he spent the majority of the season with Nate "I hate rookies not from UW" McMillan so he got very little meaningful playing time.

I'd like to see us pick up BPA at 6, Terence Ross at 11 and trade/buy our way into the late teens/early 20's and pick up Jeff Taylor from Vandy.

[LOOSH]

Nolan Smith isn't a PG, he's a combo guard with little upside. That pick will never make sense.

[Blaze01]

You're not drafting Marshall to ever be more than #3 or #4 option. His only role is to run the offense and knock down open threes at a decent rate.

So how do you propose POR gets there #1 or #2 (depending on how you view LA) and #3 option to play alongside LA then?

I think using a lottery draft pick in a strong draft on a player who "best" case will be your 3rd/4th guy is a poor decision....

POR needs top tier talent, outside of D-Will they are likely not going to find it in FA....Relying on Batum or E-Will to grow into those roles is needlessly and foolishly optimistic...The best way for POR to get one of those players is through the draft or via trade....and by trade I mean trading for a player who is in his prime 24-26 who is ALREADY an all star caliber player....not some guy like Batum, who may develop into one....that is just as much (or more) a risk as drafting a player as far as I am concerned....

[fishnc]

You're not drafting Marshall to ever be more than #3 or #4 option. His only role is to run the offense and knock down open threes at a decent rate.

So how do you propose POR gets there #1 or #2 (depending on how you view LA) and #3 option to play alongside LA then?

I think using a lottery draft pick in a strong draft on a player who "best" case will be your 3rd/4th guy is a poor decision....

POR needs top tier talent, outside of D-Will they are likely not going to find it in FA....Relying on Batum or E-Will to grow into those roles is needlessly and foolishly optimistic...The best way for POR to get one of those players is through the draft or via trade....and by trade I mean trading for a player who is in his prime 24-26 who is ALREADY an all star caliber player....not some guy like Batum, who may develop into one....that is just as much (or more) a risk as drafting a player as far as I am concerned....

I view LMA as a solid #2 option. I view Batum as a below average #3 option. As far as getting a number one option, it's either happening at the 6th pick or through free agency. No one is going to trade us a top 10 player unless we massively overpay. There are no star level players at 11. There are almost never star level players available that late unless they are Euro or high schoolers(obviously no longer an option).

The appeal of Marshall is that if we are able to find a number one option via #6 or FA, we now have a player that makes the entire team better. Batum would look more like a solid #3 option and LMA would look like a really good #2 option.

[fishnc]

You're not drafting Marshall to ever be more than #3 or #4 option. His only role is to run the offense and knock down open threes at a decent rate.

The point I was making was that Marshall never proved he was a #3/#4 scoring option on an NBA team. The vast majority of NBA starters (especially positions 1-4) were able to score in college.

Even the pure point guards like Jason Kidd or Andre Miller scored a lot more in college than Marshall did. Players who don't score in college but rack up assists, do not translate to the NBA very often. Maybe Marshall was a special circumstance (because of a loaded team), but a lot of people around here seem to think it is a given that his game will translate.

Don't get me wrong, I still like Marshall and have him as my #1 PG in the draft, but none of the PG's in this draft are guaranteed to make a difference at the NBA level. If there is a better player than Marshall at 11, I wouldn't bet on Marshall filling our PGOTF need and reach for him because of that need.

Obviously the caveat here is that Marshall put up historic assist numbers as a sophomore to go along with his low scoring. I don't think he's a guaranteed difference maker by any means, but I think he has a good shot of being a late Nets/early Dallas Jason Kidd without the amazing rebounding and defense.

Sounds like we mostly agree on this.

[Blaze01]

I view LMA as a solid #2 option. I view Batum as a below average #3 option. As far as getting a number one option, it's either happening at the 6th pick or through free agency. No one is going to trade us a top 10 player unless we massively overpay. There are no star level players at 11. There are almost never star level players available that late unless they are Euro or high schoolers(obviously no longer an option).

The appeal of Marshall is that if we are able to find a number one option via #6 or FA, we now have a player that makes the entire team better. Batum would look more like a solid #3 option and LMA would look like a really good #2 option.

Why not take 2 shots at such a player in this draft?

By most accounts you have Davis in a tier all by himself and then 8-10 players or so grouped in a 2nd tier...If we agree that POR needs top tier talent, wouldn't the best option be to double down and take 2 swings at hitting on ONE of those 2 players? and then hey maybe you hit on both, or maybe Batum or E-Will develop into that 3rd role or more....but at least you get 1 top tier guy at all of that and IMO taking 2 chances in this draft is the best way to go, rather than punting on one pick for a rotaion player....

[sabi]

Lamb, Ross and Beal are all clear upgrades at SG and are easily obtainable in this draft. We should look to move wesley matthews for another player and draft one of these three SGs and give elliot the full time backup role if healthy. im not convinced wesley is starting quality on a winning team but hes young and on a decent contract. What would his trade value be?

[LOOSH]

Terrence Ross reminds me of Nick Young quite a bit, can get his shot off and capable of some big time scoring output, but a bit reckless with the ball and a not a good finisher

I see a lot more athleticism from him than I do from Lillard. At number 11 I'm willing to risk that he can't figure things out. I would've thought Nic Young would pan out considering that he had all the physical skills on paper. I think Ross is worth a shot and at 11 we're much better off taking a risk than at 6. If we can get one of the big five (as I like to think of them) at number 6 then we will probably be fine taking Ross at 11. I wouldn't be too upset if Waiters is our man either.

Yeah I agree Lillard's athleticism is being overrated, he's not even close to a guy like Westbrook, nor Bayless, who I think he compares favorably with, but he's still a decent athlete. I'm really not a fan though, don't see a PG, see a lot of role player potential. With both of these picks I just to take the BPA, this draft is deep in the teens, a lot of guys interest me there, Terrence Ross is certainly one of them.