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Lacob & Co. in Attack Mode

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Re: Lacob & Co. in Attack Mode 

Post#141 » by Quazza » Tue Jun 5, 2012 4:25 am

facerizon wrote:A classic example from the world of Sociological statistics: In the mid-20th century a correlation was drawn between Ice Cream sales and murder rates in the inner-city. Statistics showed that every time ice cream increased in quantities sold, more murders occurred. On the surface, this lead some to ponder if ice cream consumption was actually the root cause of homicide. Logically, this was not the case, and later became known as "cum hoc ergo propter hoc" or a logical fallacy. Ice cream sales increased simply because it was hot outside. Murders rate also increased because it was hot outside, as people's tension levels were unable to adapt to their suddenly uncomfortable environments. Ice cream however, regardless of the correlational statistic, did not contribute to higher frequencies in homicidal tendencies.

...



fkn lol

Best post in ages (not included Maneesh)
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Re: Lacob & Co. in Attack Mode 

Post#142 » by Coxy » Tue Jun 5, 2012 7:04 am

Maneesh speaks the truth yawl. TANK AND DISGRACE!!!
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Re: Lacob & Co. in Attack Mode 

Post#143 » by BROWN » Tue Jun 5, 2012 8:14 am

Jester_ wrote:With Dorell Wright on the floor, opponents scored 110 ppg versus 105 ppg with him off. He had a +1 defensive RAPM last year, -1.7 this year. That's why he sucked. His offensive stats were skewed because of a few good games near the end, but offensively he was about the same this year.


Doesn't everyone here want him out? "Trade him for a 2nd round pick" "Bag of Chips" "Anything"
Everyone turned on him, not too long ago allot of people were all like "YEAH DWRIGHT FOR 3!! KEEP EM COMING"...

You're telling me he was about the same this year then he was the year he came in 3rd in MIP voting?
Must've been that defense he brought from Miami..
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Re: Lacob & Co. in Attack Mode 

Post#144 » by Coxy » Tue Jun 5, 2012 8:55 am

The most overrated defender in the history of sport. He's just not a smart player.
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Re: Lacob & Co. in Attack Mode 

Post#145 » by ChuckDurn » Tue Jun 5, 2012 9:32 am

He's pretty much what you should expect for a guy on a 3-year, $11M contract. Our expectations got a little out of line after his surprising first year. He's not really being paid like most starters, and this year he lived up/down to his contract.
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Re: Lacob & Co. in Attack Mode 

Post#146 » by Jester_ » Tue Jun 5, 2012 1:26 pm

facerizon wrote:A classic example from the world of Sociological statistics: In the mid-20th century a correlation was drawn between Ice Cream sales and murder rates in the inner-city. Statistics showed that every time ice cream increased in quantities sold, more murders occurred. On the surface, this lead some to ponder if ice cream consumption was actually the root cause of homicide. Logically, this was not the case, and later became known as "cum hoc ergo propter hoc" or a logical fallacy. Ice cream sales increased simply because it was hot outside. Murders rate also increased because it was hot outside, as people's tension levels were unable to adapt to their suddenly uncomfortable environments. Ice cream however, regardless of the correlational statistic, did not contribute to higher frequencies in homicidal tendencies.


The prevailing argument here and against stats in general on this thread is that statistics can be used badly. That doesn't discredit the stats themselves. It's the same as the prevailing religious argument against Science, "oh well, Science used to think the world was flat, what does it know?". Numbers are evidence. It's up to you to use those numbers to form an argument and a basis for your "observations". If I use the numbers as evidence for my claim, and I've engaged in some kind of logical fallacy, it's up to you to call me out on it.

"Observation" is not a legitimate evidence. If your claim is "Curry is a weak defender because he lets defenders blow by him", I want you to watch a dozen Curry games and record and jot down every time he lets a defender blow by him, then do the same thing for every other point guard and find out whether he's above or below the average. Of course you're not going to do that, so you go and look at statistics that others have compiled that do it for you.

An observation is not evidence for anything.
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Re: Lacob & Co. in Attack Mode 

Post#147 » by killacalijatt » Tue Jun 5, 2012 2:39 pm

So my inside sources are telling me Warriors are pushing hard for Gay. Just a heads up yall 8-)

How would yall feel about a 7th 30th DWrong for 3 Blatche trade, Blatxhe has one ugly contract but if MKG was there would you do it?
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Re: Lacob & Co. in Attack Mode 

Post#148 » by Left*My*Heart » Tue Jun 5, 2012 3:27 pm

West was extremely high on Gay and I could see his influence on this one. I think we have greater needs.

What is the rumored cost of Gay for the Warriors?

I would be very interested in the #3 pick, where there would be a few better options for us. If we are going Gay, do we need MKG or would he be trade bait? Drummond and Robinson might be there and I think I would swing for the fence and draft Drummond. He would be a project, but he should be able to defend the paint and learn from Bogut.

How does the 7th and 30th pick, plus Wright, net us Blatche and the 3rd pick? Seems we would need to include additional assets to make it work.
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Re: Lacob & Co. in Attack Mode 

Post#149 » by killacalijatt » Tue Jun 5, 2012 3:31 pm

As far as the #3 and Wiz trade goes i was pulling that out of my ass but the Gay thing I actually read an article a few hours ago Ill post it In a bit.

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Re: Lacob & Co. in Attack Mode 

Post#150 » by Left*My*Heart » Tue Jun 5, 2012 3:40 pm

I have seen the Warriors and Gay mentioned numerous times since last season's off season and have felt it was a realistic scenario. Especially since West is really fond of him.

My only concern with Gay is what it would cost us asset wise and if we were still able to address the two much larger needs, backup PG and our front line.
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Re: Lacob & Co. in Attack Mode 

Post#151 » by whocurrz » Tue Jun 5, 2012 6:09 pm

I think getting an all-star caliber SF is worth the 7th pick and more important than backups, but we'd definitely need to get rid of some major salary for it to be worth it. RJ for sure and if we could find a way to also swap Biedrins for a more productive player in the deal (doubt it). At least would want their pick (if they have it) so we could take a flyer on someone like Melo.

Much rather see Iguodala with this team.
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Re: Lacob & Co. in Attack Mode 

Post#152 » by BROWN » Tue Jun 5, 2012 7:23 pm

If we do get Gay, which I don't mind.. his salary is way off the chain, especially if we include Lee/Bogut/Curry (extension) and a possible extension on Klay. It'll be impossible to fit in that small cap.
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Re: Lacob & Co. in Attack Mode 

Post#153 » by turk3d » Tue Jun 5, 2012 7:55 pm

BROWN wrote:If we do get Gay, which I don't mind.. his salary is way off the chain, especially if we include Lee/Bogut/Curry (extension) and a possible extension on Klay. It'll be impossible to fit in that small cap.

I don't see that as too much of a problem based on what I've seen from Lacob thus far. I think he'd be willing to pay the lux if he thinks it will really help us which I think it would in this instance. In 3013/14 when Curry's QO takes effect (who knows, by then if his ankle doesn't heal, we may not even offer it) Beans has an early termination option (don't know how much) and there's only 51M on the books as of now.

If we traded for Gay that may signal the end of Rush stay. The following year 2014/15) only shows a total of 18M. With Bird rights Lacob likely does it and would only have to suffer it probably for one year. I think we do it if it's the right deal and I could see the possibility here.
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Re: Lacob & Co. in Attack Mode 

Post#154 » by BROWN » Tue Jun 5, 2012 8:02 pm

turk3d wrote:
BROWN wrote:If we do get Gay, which I don't mind.. his salary is way off the chain, especially if we include Lee/Bogut/Curry (extension) and a possible extension on Klay. It'll be impossible to fit in that small cap.

I don't see that as too much of a problem based on what I've seen from Lacob thus far. I think he'd be willing to pay the lux if he thinks it will really help us which I think it would in this instance. In 3013/14 when Curry's QO takes effect (who knows, by then if his ankle doesn't heal, we may not even offer it) Beans has an early termination option (don't know how much) and there's only 51M on the books as of now.

If we traded for Gay that may signal the end of Rush stay. The following year 2014/15) only shows a total of 18M. With Bird rights Lacob likely does it and would only have to suffer it probably for one year. I think we do it if it's the right deal and I could see the possibility here.



Regardless of Curry's ankle, we're still gonna have to offer him an extension, it might be cheap, but I don't think Lacob has any other choice.

Would it work if we shipped out Wright + Jefferson + Beans + 7th for Gay + filler, and then sign Rush and McGuire?
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Re: Lacob & Co. in Attack Mode 

Post#155 » by TB » Tue Jun 5, 2012 9:06 pm

memphis wants out of salary cap hell. they will not take RJeff and Beans.
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Re: Lacob & Co. in Attack Mode 

Post#156 » by Frank Mulely » Tue Jun 5, 2012 9:25 pm

Its basically impossible to pay the luxury tax more than one year, they have something crazy like triple damages. When the Lakers started dumping salary (Odom) thats all you needed to know on the topic. Only team that might be rich AND nuts enough to go into luxury for multiple years is NYK (so they can add yet another washed up ball hog :lol: )
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Re: Lacob & Co. in Attack Mode 

Post#157 » by turk3d » Tue Jun 5, 2012 10:33 pm

Like It said, it probably would be no more than a year if that, and they might not even be that far over. Those boys know how to count.
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Re: Lacob & Co. in Attack Mode 

Post#158 » by floppymoose » Fri Jun 8, 2012 3:21 am

Sleepy51 wrote:
Jester_ wrote:Er sorry, linked to the wrong year. You're right, this year we did better with Monta on the floor 109 with him on vs 110 with him off: http://www.82games.com/1112/11GSW4.HTM

Btw, the reason this year's raw +- numbers looked better for Monta is that he got traded at the same time as Udoh, who was by far our best defender. A huge chunk of the Monta-off numbers, for both GSW and MIL, were minutes played by both teams when Udoh wasn't on them.
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Re: Lacob & Co. in Attack Mode 

Post#159 » by Sleepy51 » Fri Jun 8, 2012 6:29 am

floppymoose wrote:
Sleepy51 wrote:
Jester_ wrote:Er sorry, linked to the wrong year. You're right, this year we did better with Monta on the floor 109 with him on vs 110 with him off: http://www.82games.com/1112/11GSW4.HTM

Btw, the reason this year's raw +- numbers looked better for Monta is that he got traded at the same time as Udoh, who was by far our best defender. A huge chunk of the Monta-off numbers, for both GSW and MIL, were minutes played by both teams when Udoh wasn't on them.



His GSW numbers were improved even before the trade. I followed this on bball value on almost a daily basis this year, and he was in the positive on D for GS before the Udoh-less minutes accumulated.

The improvement independent of pairing with Udoh is reflected in the junp in RAPM from -2.0 to -0.6. Monta actually did improve on D. He learned to fight over screens on ball. That was the change that made the difference. He did not let opposing ballhandlers get to whatever spots they wanted around screens. He still got flogged by off ball assignments, but his resistance at the initial point of attack was greatly improved.
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Re: Lacob & Co. in Attack Mode 

Post#160 » by Sleepy51 » Fri Jun 8, 2012 6:52 am

Also when you look at the agregate season numbers, he hardly ever played with Udoh in his Bucks minutes. For whatever reason, Skiles didn't pair them much at all. All told, he played roughly as many minutes with the likes of Gooden and Lee at center as he did with Udoh. When you throw in Biedrins deleterious impact on defense this year, he played far more minutes with crap defensive bigs than with Udoh.
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