Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXV: Offseason Edition)

[mhectorgato]

I have no idea if he's really the frontrunner or not, but if he is willing to take chances to develop youth rather than doggedly stick with older players on the downside of their career, and build a team that his coach can run their plans around, he's already better than Otis.

I think you're too quick to dismiss the good Otis has done. Smith's biggest weakness has been overpaying when he didn't need to, and his desperate gamble in 2011.

imo, Otis' tenure was parabolic, matching the team's success. He did good to address the needs leading up to the finals. After that his moves went downhill, and the results naturally followed.

[eyriq]

Then how do you use that stat as a "FACT" to show Ryno > Gay?

That is in-fact what you are doing, as you went through the effort to:
1) put the boxes around the respective player's stat line.
2) put a red arrow (highlighting the negative value) pointing to Gay's on/off the floor value.
3) put a red arrow (highlighting the positive value) pointing to Ryno's on/off the floor value.

Further, if that stat can be misleading within the same team, how can you use to compare players with (1) different teammates (2) under different offensive and defensive schemes (3) against different opponents (4) with different injuries to starting lineups?

Inductive reasoning is the process of observing data, recognizing patterns, and
making generalizations based on those patterns. You prob...

Please don't go all maginno (aka condescending) on me.

You are asking a rhetorical question, so instead of flattering your Socratic impulse I just pointed out the critical thinking process. Tit-for-tat I'd say

BUT, you are correct that I look at all the stats I've used to contrast Gay to Anderson as building a strong case for Anderson where others are so quick to cast him off.

[RickB-Orlando]

I have no idea if he's really the frontrunner or not, but if he is willing to take chances to develop youth rather than doggedly stick with older players on the downside of their career, and build a team that his coach can run their plans around, he's already better than Otis.

I think you're too quick to dismiss the good Otis has done. Smith's biggest weakness has been overpaying when he didn't need to, and his desperate gamble in 2011.

imo, Otis' tenure was parabolic, matching the team's success. He did good to address the needs leading up to the finals. After that his moves went downhill, and the results naturally followed.

I agree. The trade to bring in Rafer got us to the finals. You can even argue that signing Rashard, though the contract was burdensome, was also a good move as he was a key contributor to the finals team.

After that, it was just about all down hill, and quickly.

[BadMofoPimp]

Lets see.

Otis signed Rashard to huge Contract
Bowers signed Peja to huge contract
Winner: Otis

Otis made bad trade for Hedo, JRich & Clark
Bowers made bad trade of Chandler for Okafor
Winner: Otis (FYI: Chandler Defensive MVP)

Otis Traded for Carter & Ryno (Most Improved Player)
Bowers traded for Ariza
Winner: Otis

Otis Drafted: JJ/CLee/Liggins
Bowers Drafted: Collison & Thornton
Winner: Split.

Result: Otis >>> Bowers

((Don't give Bowers crap stating he had less to spend than Otis, because he did trade for Okafors contract and signed Peja to a big contract))

[infam0us]

Lets see.

Otis signed Rashard to huge Contract
Bowers signed Peja to huge contract
Winner: Otis

Otis made bad trade for Hedo, JRich & Clark
Bowers made bad trade of Chandler for Okafor
Winner: Otis (FYI: Chandler Defensive MVP)

Otis Traded for Carter & Ryno (Most Improved Player)
Bowers traded for Ariza
Winner: Otis

Otis Drafted: JJ/CLee/Liggins
Bowers Drafted: Collison & Thornton
Winner: Split.

Result: Otis >>> Bowers

((Don't give Bowers crap stating he had less to spend than Otis, because he did trade for Okafors contract and signed Peja to a big contract))

Otis gave Lewis six years 118 million
Bowers gave Peja five years 63 million
Winner: Bowers

Bower didn't trade for Ariza, Demp did.

[dwightsmight12]

What is one single good move that Bower made that paid off? I mean at least Otis drafted C Lee and traded for Gortat's rights..

[trebone]

What is one single good move that Bower made that paid off? I mean at least Otis drafted C Lee and traded for Gortat's rights..

The biggest problem here is that we are arguing who the better GM is between Otis and Bower, that's like arguing which turd smells better...

[BadMofoPimp]

What is one single good move that Bower made that paid off? I mean at least Otis drafted C Lee and traded for Gortat's rights..

Drafted Darren Collison and Thornton. That is it.

[dwightsmight12]

What is one single good move that Bower made that paid off? I mean at least Otis drafted C Lee and traded for Gortat's rights..

The biggest problem here is that we are arguing who the better GM is between Otis and Bower, that's like arguing which turd smells better...

you're right. That would me such a Magic thing to happen. We finally get rid of Otis, and the one guy who could potentially do worse is being considered for the job.

[RickB-Orlando]

I'm amazed at how people simply choose to avoid any information that is counter to their position lately.

I'm not saying Bower is a great candidate, I'm not saying he's a horrible candidate, but I already posted the major moves he made with the Hornets. It's a much more extensive list than just drafting two players.

Personally, I'm willing to give whoever they bring in a chance - both GM and coach. If they get a GM that can work to build a team that meets the coaches style - which Bower has shown he can do - that's a huge plus compared to Otis hiring SVG - a defense first coach - and then flooding the roster with pure shooters that can't play a lick of D.

[Bensational]

@eyriq

you keep dismissing the argument that Gay can "get his own shot" - why? if watching this current group over the past few years has shown you nothing, has it not been that we don't have enough players that can create their own offense? we've got no one that we can ISO, no one that will attack the rim consistently, no one consistent enough that will do all the work that will open up the shots for the rest of the team.

Anderson's role on the team is built around other people doing the work to get him his shots. whether that's Dwight, or a ballhandler, someone else is doing the work to make his defender consider leaving him. look at the 4 teams left in the playoffs right now - none of those guys have such a high emphasis on a player like that, and for a very good reason. when good defenses kick in, the players who can get it done on their own really start to shine.

also, what kind of offense do you think this team should run in the future? let's just assume we're rebuilding around Dwight, what kind of players will you put around him and what sets will you run?

[IGotDaMagicInMe]

How about we do a 3 team trade with memphis and atl and get josh smith? I'm not sure if atl and memphis would rather just leave us out of it though

[Def Swami]

How about we do a 3 team trade with memphis and atl and get josh smith? I'm not sure if atl and memphis would rather just leave us out of it though

I have a hard time seeing ATL taking on Gay's contract. Look at the length and money on Joe Johnson's deal. They still have Horford on the books and at some point they'll have to pay Teague. I think they'd rather keep Smith or trade him to shed money.

That's why I think we have a real chance at getting Gay. Very few teams will take his contract.

[thelead]

How about we do a 3 team trade with memphis and atl and get josh smith? I'm not sure if atl and memphis would rather just leave us out of it though

I have a hard time seeing ATL taking on Gay's contract. Look at the length and money on Joe Johnson's deal. They still have Horford on the books and at some point they'll have to pay Teague. I think they'd rather keep Smith or trade him to shed money.

That's why I think we have a real chance at getting Gay. Very few teams will take his contract.

We say that every year about a potential trade for the magic to acquire a good but overpaid player. And every year we just end up with scrubs that are overpaid...

[OrlChamps2030]

Let me list some names:

Rondo
Pierce
Kg

Westbrook
Durant
Harden

Duncan
Ginobli
Parker

Lbj
Wade
Bosh

What do these players have in common: all are top 3 options on remaining playoff teams and all can create their own shot

[Carlos Arroyo]

idk if u guys play games but super smash bros is one of my fav games but the wii sucks so i dont have it and this just made me a happy camper
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5BLgycbUog[/youtube]

[MoMM]

Let me list some names:

Rondo
Pierce
Kg

Westbrook
Durant
Harden

Duncan
Ginobli
Parker

Lbj
Wade
Bosh

What do these players have in common: all are top 3 options on remaining playoff teams and all can create their own shot

So we are very far from a title, because even our 1st option can't create his own shot.

[OrlandO]

idk if u guys play games but super smash bros is one of my fav games but the wii sucks so i dont have it and this just made me a happy camper
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5BLgycbUog[/youtube]

Nintendogs sure did tear up that thumbs down button on that trailer...

[thelead]

A "big 3" is overrated. Give me Dwight, CP3, and some defensive players that can hit open shots and I like my chances against any team in the conference finals right now.

[The1llness]

Let me list some names:

Rondo
Pierce
Kg

Westbrook
Durant
Harden

Duncan
Ginobli
Parker

Lbj
Wade
Bosh

What do these players have in common: all are top 3 options on remaining playoff teams and all can create their own shot

So we are very far from a title, because even our 1st option can't create his own shot.

Exactly, and whats more is that he'll never be the leading scorer on a championship team. He's really just a more athletic Alonzo Mourning and the faster Magic management realizes this the better.

Also, KG's shot creation is limited to a weak turnaround jumper on the low block so really the C's only have 2 such players.