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The 2012 NBA Draft: 6th & 11th picks, and some random 2nds.

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Re: The 2012 NBA Draft: 6th & 11th picks, and some random 2n 

Post#1201 » by Wizenheimer » Thu Jun 7, 2012 3:37 am

Case2012 wrote:
mojomarc wrote:
fishnc wrote:
Everyone benefits from a good passer

EDIT: And this is not me being a douche pointing out the obvious. Just making a point about how much the team would benefit from a player like Marshall.


Like we benefited from having Andre Miller? The same challenges Miller caused would be even worse with Marshall. Miller is a far more credible offensive threat outside of passing than Marshall is.




Everyone says Marshall can't shoot and can't play D, which is bull. He shot high 46.7%from the field, and a decent 35% from 3. He also averaged 1.2 steals. So why are people perpetuating these myths about him. If Marshall falls to us we have to take him. He's only 20 years old, he can get better. As far as athleticism goes, remember Roy? He wasn't an All star because of his physical abilities, he was an All star because of his BBIQ, which Marshall has in spades.


just a reminder: at the Orlando draft combine, Brandon Roy demonstrated some outstanding athleticism. He did very well in both the sprint and agility drill and I believe he had the 3rd best verticals as well

just because he wasn't known for his athleticism doesn't mean he wasn't athletic. he actually was very athletic
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Re: The 2012 NBA Draft: 6th & 11th picks, and some random 2n 

Post#1202 » by Case2012 » Thu Jun 7, 2012 3:54 am

Never said Roy wasn't athletic, I just said he didn't rely on being athletic. A friend from out of town told me recently that Roy had a 48 inch vertical measured in the combine.
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Re: The 2012 NBA Draft: 6th & 11th picks, and some random 2n 

Post#1203 » by Wizenheimer » Thu Jun 7, 2012 4:06 am

Case2012 wrote:Never said Roy wasn't athletic, I just said he didn't rely on being athletic. A friend from out of town told me recently that Roy had a 48 inch vertical measured in the combine.


here's the thing though...I don't agree about Roy not relying on his athleticism. If he didn't, he would not have been able to beat so many people off of the dribble and penetrate all the way to the basket. He didn't have flashy slam-dunks too often, but he had a lot of elevation on all those tricky shots he made around the rim with either hand. He had great one-step acceleration, and he could shift laterally without becoming awkward. And he did all of this in traffic. That's athleticism...it's just not the flashy kind so prevalent in the NBA these days.

as far as the vertical, his official max was measured at 40.5" at the combine. His no-step vertical was 34"
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Re: The 2012 NBA Draft: 6th & 11th picks, and some random 2n 

Post#1204 » by Blaze01 » Thu Jun 7, 2012 5:09 am

Some of you guys are so focused on PG and C that you apparently can't even see yourselves basically suggesting that POR reach for need over BPA.....or maybe you have a short memory when it comes to POR drafts.....
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Re: The 2012 NBA Draft: 6th & 11th picks, and some random 2n 

Post#1205 » by deanwoof » Thu Jun 7, 2012 6:11 am

Wasnt our need last summer a backup big man? And instead of Faried we went with Craig smith for that and drafted Nolan I'm only a PG because Kyrie Irving got hurt Smith. :-/
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Re: The 2012 NBA Draft: 6th & 11th picks, and some random 2n 

Post#1206 » by mojomarc » Thu Jun 7, 2012 6:17 am

Case2012 wrote:
mojomarc wrote:
fishnc wrote:
Everyone benefits from a good passer

EDIT: And this is not me being a douche pointing out the obvious. Just making a point about how much the team would benefit from a player like Marshall.


Like we benefited from having Andre Miller? The same challenges Miller caused would be even worse with Marshall. Miller is a far more credible offensive threat outside of passing than Marshall is.




Everyone says Marshall can't shoot and can't play D, which is bull.


Swishscout: "He’s a limited on ball defender."
DraftExpress: "The defensive end, however, is perhaps the most concerning aspect of Marshall's game projecting to the next level, as his lack of quickness on this end of the floor is concerning in the dribble-drive centric NBA, and already is a problem against high level competition in college."
NBADraft.net: "Average footspeed limits his defensive potential"
ESPN: "The questions for Marshall surround his lack of elite athleticism and his ability to guard the ultra quick point guards at the NBA level."

So you're at least right about the first half of this sentence--everyone is saying he can't play D. Naysaying doesn't help--what makes you think a foot-slow PG who couldn't guard quick guards in college will be able to do so in the NBA?

He shot high 46.7%from the field, and a decent 35% from 3.


On very, very few attempts. All we know is that every scouting report (and my watching of him a few times this last year) indicated he wasn't an effective enough scorer to command respect from the defenses.

He also averaged 1.2 steals. So why are people perpetuating these myths about him.


Once again--what makes you think these are myths?

If Marshall falls to us we have to take him. He's only 20 years old, he can get better. As far as athleticism goes, remember Roy? He wasn't an All star because of his physical abilities, he was an All star because of his BBIQ, which Marshall has in spades.


As has been pointed out, Roy was a tremendous athlete. And aside from his vert, he had a ridiculous crossover and the ability to create separation with his quickness that you rarely see. This often gets thought of as a lack of athleticism (Larry Bird was also called unathletic, but he was quick in a similar way to how Brandon was), but in realitity it's a an athleticism that just goes in a different direction than pure footspeed or vertical. Kendall Marshall, though, doesn't seem to have that at all. He is neither particularly explosive nor particularly quick.

Unfortunately, picking Marshall here would be a reach for need with the hope it worked out, and I think the odds of it working out are very, very low.
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Re: The 2012 NBA Draft: 6th & 11th picks, and some random 2n 

Post#1207 » by PDXKnight » Thu Jun 7, 2012 7:40 am

Is it fair to say that the fact that Marshall went to UNC contributed to him being overrated? Don't get me wrong there's a place for him to be picked, but he doesn't strike me as a lotto pick if the front office exerts any sense of sanity.
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Re: The 2012 NBA Draft: 6th & 11th picks, and some random 2n 

Post#1208 » by Case2012 » Thu Jun 7, 2012 7:50 am

Hmmm, people seem to have misinterpreted my views of athleticism. Every player in the NBA is a great athlete, otherwise they wouldn't be playing a professional sport. When I think of great athletes, among NBA players in particular, I think Derrick Rose, and Dwight Howard etc. Roy was an amazing athlete, that's not disputable. However, I maintain that his ability to score was more based on series of hesitation moves that kept his opponent constantly off balance. He was definitely quick but never struck me as "lightning fast". He played way too controlled. Jab steps, pump fakes, spinning fade away's. Whatever, It's dumb to argue about the nuances of Roy's game, he's probably the best Blazer ever.

Maybe Marshall isn't a very good man on man defender, oh well. Better get a good weak side defender in the post then.I still think having a natural floor general that pass as good as ANY point guard in currently in the NBA is worth "reaching for" at 11.
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Re: The 2012 NBA Draft: 6th & 11th picks, and some random 2n 

Post#1209 » by fishnc » Thu Jun 7, 2012 3:33 pm

I don't think arguing over Marshall is going to accomplish much anymore. Clearly there are two sides of the fence here. Detractors don't believe he will be able to shoot at the next level, while supporters do. Only time will tell on that.

He's smart, he's an amazing facilitator, he makes his teammates better, and he can knock down an open shot. He also has below average quickness and jumping ability, which causes him to be a poor man defender and a poor attacker of the basket.

Agree to disagree on his shooting ability.
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Re: The 2012 NBA Draft: 6th & 11th picks, and some random 2n 

Post#1210 » by Blaze01 » Thu Jun 7, 2012 4:06 pm

This team needs finishers....

I don't care if he is the greatest passer in the history of the NBA...if guys like Matthews & Batum cannot consistently hit shots it will not matter....

and that is the point....

POR needs top tier talent...players who can create thier own offense and score on thier own when needed....

Look at OKC with Durant, Westbrook & Harden anyone of those guys can score when needed....POR has maybe one such guy in LA...who has the ABILITY to score when he wnats but often times has looked to pass out in clutch moments when pressed by defense or not even look for the shot.....

If some of you don't find that to be troubling then I don't know what else to say...it is THE biggest problem with this team right now and adding a guy like Kendall Marshall, contrary to what some of you may believe is not going to alleviate that problem....
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Re: The 2012 NBA Draft: 6th & 11th picks, and some random 2n 

Post#1211 » by fishnc » Thu Jun 7, 2012 4:16 pm

Blaze01 wrote:This team needs finishers....

I don't care if he is the greatest passer in the history of the NBA...if guys like Matthews & Batum cannot consistently hit shots it will not matter....

and that is the point....

POR needs top tier talent...players who can create thier own offense and score on thier own when needed....

Look at OKC with Durant, Westbrook & Harden anyone of those guys can score when needed....POR has maybe one such guy in LA...who has the ABILITY to score when he wnats but often times has looked to pass out in clutch moments when pressed by defense or not even look for the shot.....

If some of you don't find that to be troubling then I don't know what else to say...it is THE biggest problem with this team right now and adding a guy like Kendall Marshall, contrary to what some of you may believe is not going to alleviate that problem....


Those guys were taken 2nd, 4th, and 3rd in their respective drafts. Players like them are not available at 11. No matter how big of a risk you take at 11 it's not going to make a Durant, Westbrook, or Harden level player appear. There might be players who can get their own looks, but they will do so on low efficiency while not bringing much else to the table. You're not gonna win with players like that either.
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Re: The 2012 NBA Draft: 6th & 11th picks, and some random 2n 

Post#1212 » by Blaze01 » Thu Jun 7, 2012 4:41 pm

Your nuts....

Not every great NBA player was taking at 2, 3 or 4....and this draft is stronger than many before it...

You don't think there is any great talent in this draft apparently so you would rather punt and draft mediocre players and curse this franchise by banning it to mediocrity for the forseeable future...

You are not going to win playoff series let alone NBA championships with Marshall\Matthews\Batum and LA...

Seriously? Unbelievable....
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Re: The 2012 NBA Draft: 6th & 11th picks, and some random 2n 

Post#1213 » by cucad8 » Thu Jun 7, 2012 5:04 pm

Blaze01 wrote:Your nuts....

Not every great NBA player was taking at 2, 3 or 4....and this draft is stronger than many before it...

You don't think there is any great talent in this draft apparently so you would rather punt and draft mediocre players and curse this franchise by banning it to mediocrity for the forseeable future...

You are not going to win playoff series let alone NBA championships with Marshall\Matthews\Batum and LA...

Seriously? Unbelievable....

Did anyone say Marshall, Matthews, Batum, Aldridge was winning us a title? Why do you continue to make up what others say and argue against it, call others idiots for it?
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Re: The 2012 NBA Draft: 6th & 11th picks, and some random 2n 

Post#1214 » by Fitz303 » Thu Jun 7, 2012 5:08 pm

Blaze01 wrote:Your nuts....

Not every great NBA player was taking at 2, 3 or 4....and this draft is stronger than many before it...

You don't think there is any great talent in this draft apparently so you would rather punt and draft mediocre players and curse this franchise by banning it to mediocrity for the forseeable future...

You are not going to win playoff series let alone NBA championships with Marshall\Matthews\Batum and LA...

Seriously? Unbelievable....


Oh and that 11th pick HAS to be spent on upgrading the SG position then? You cant get a solid pickup at PG with the 11th pick, and worry about SG with the 6th pick, or through FA/Trades? Its amazing how people think there is some savior that's going to be available at 11. Sorry, Rivers isnt Kobe.
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Re: The 2012 NBA Draft: 6th & 11th picks, and some random 2n 

Post#1215 » by DusterBuster » Thu Jun 7, 2012 5:24 pm

Damian Lillard told CSNNW that he's hearing he might go to Portland @ #6. He also says he's the best PG in the draft.

Could be smoke, or it could be real. Typically when players say they're hearing a team is seriously interested in them, it's pretty accurate. I remember Roy saying he was hearing Portland was REALLY interested in him prior to the 06 draft.

What do you guys think? Lillard @ #6. Too high?
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Re: The 2012 NBA Draft: 6th & 11th picks, and some random 2n 

Post#1216 » by Blazinaway » Thu Jun 7, 2012 5:28 pm

DusterBuster wrote:Damian Lillard told CSNNW that he's hearing he might go to Portland @ #6. He also says he's the best PG in the draft.

Could be smoke, or it could be real. Typically when players say they're hearing a team is seriously interested in them, it's pretty accurate. I remember Roy saying he was hearing Portland was REALLY interested in him prior to the 06 draft.

What do you guys think? Lillard @ #6. Too high?



#6 is too high IMO
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Re: The 2012 NBA Draft: 6th & 11th picks, and some random 2n 

Post#1217 » by Blazinaway » Thu Jun 7, 2012 5:30 pm

Thomas Robinson said he measure 6-83/4 in shoes with a 7'3" winspan, beal said he measured 6 4-1/4 I think with shoes, measurement are not official until tomorrow. IMO both these measurements, if correct, help these guys stay high in the draft because there were "smaller' concerns
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Re: The 2012 NBA Draft: 6th & 11th picks, and some random 2n 

Post#1218 » by lukeyrid13 » Thu Jun 7, 2012 5:34 pm

deanwoof wrote:Wasnt our need last summer a backup big man? And instead of Faried we went with Craig smith for that and drafted Nolan I'm only a PG because Kyrie Irving got hurt Smith. :-/


Huuuge difference between picking 21 or 22 out of need and picks 6 or higher if we move up.

In the top 8-10 you take BPA. Take GSW for example, curry and ellis are almost the exact same player but they took BPA instead of need(Jordan Hill woulda been the pick) and then traded ellis for bogut.
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Re: The 2012 NBA Draft: 6th & 11th picks, and some random 2n 

Post#1219 » by lukeyrid13 » Thu Jun 7, 2012 5:35 pm

Blazinaway wrote:Thomas Robinson said he measure 6-83/4 in shoes with a 7'3" winspan, beal said he measured 6 4-1/4 I think with shoes, measurement are not official until tomorrow. IMO both these measurements, if correct, help these guys stay high in the draft because there were "smaller' concerns


I think both those guys' height issues were overblown. Beal has a little bit of eddie house syndrome(no neck) and robinson jumps outta the gym
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Re: The 2012 NBA Draft: 6th & 11th picks, and some random 2n 

Post#1220 » by fishnc » Thu Jun 7, 2012 5:38 pm

Blaze01 wrote:Your nuts....

Not every great NBA player was taking at 2, 3 or 4....and this draft is stronger than many before it...

You don't think there is any great talent in this draft apparently so you would rather punt and draft mediocre players and curse this franchise by banning it to mediocrity for the forseeable future...

Seriously? Unbelievable....


This draft is stronger in role players than many before it.

Since 2006, the first year high schoolers were ineligible to be drafted, three all-stars have been taken at or after 11: Rondo, Marc Gasol, and Roy Hibbert. Two of those guys are centers who don't exactly face much competition for getting into the all-star game. Rondo is the only one of those guys that can create his own offense, but even then he's still a very one dimensional scorer.

You are not going to win playoff series let alone NBA championships with Marshall\Matthews\Batum and LA...


I never said they would. And it's nice that you conveniently left out whoever we take with the 6th pick or sign with our cap space. We are not going to be competing for a championship after this one offseason barring a miracle at 6 or a miracle in free agency.

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