Its time for the Magic to rebuild completely

[Last Guardian]

It has been time for a while. No matter what we do we probably don't stand a chance against Miami and certainly have no shot against OKC for next several years. Their second options blow away our first option. Those teams are only going to get better. Best thing to do is rebuild completely and pray we strike gold somewhere.

Those teams cannot afford to keep the players they have now. OKC will lose either Westbrook or Harden plus others due to salary cap restraints. Miami has a window too. I think the Magic if done right, can contend with anyone after the summer of 2013 while making the right choices.

Magic with Dwight will always be a contender while a rebuilding Magic without Dwight could end up the Wizards or Bucks for the next 20 years. Players like Dwight come along to a team once in a lifetime. Magic got lucky it happened twice. Odds are against the Magic being a championship contender ever again without Dwight. Might as well go all in than settle for mediocrity and hope not to lose season ticket holders.

Dwight led Magic team has zero chance. Not with this competition and not with his average offensive ability. If he focused on being Bill Russell I'd feel better, but we'd still need an offensive juggernaut on par with Durant or Lebron. So we have little to no chance.

Better to be in contention for a #1 pick easily.

[BadMofoPimp]

Dwight led Magic team has zero chance. Not with this competition and not with his average offensive ability. If he focused on being Bill Russell I'd feel better, but we'd still need an offensive juggernaut on par with Durant or Lebron. So we have little to no chance.

Better to be in contention for a #1 pick easily.

So, Shaq was an offensive Juggernaut. A dominant big man of any category can lead a team to a title. Dwight is a top 5 player in this league and top 5 players paired with a decent offensive team around them will win titles.

A Dwight led Magic team has a chance of winning a title. Magic with no Dwight Howard has zero chance of winning a title and a 99% chance of being a perrenial 20-40 win team for the next decade with no shot of contending for a title. I can't believe people would actually think that this team could do better without Dwight. They sure would change their mind 2-3 years from now when the Magic continually suck ass.

[mhectorgato]

Dwight led Magic team has zero chance. Not with this competition and not with his average offensive ability. If he focused on being Bill Russell I'd feel better, but we'd still need an offensive juggernaut on par with Durant or Lebron. So we have little to no chance.

Better to be in contention for a #1 pick easily.

So, Shaq was an offensive Juggernaut. A dominant big man of any category can lead a team to a title. Dwight is a top 5 player in this league and top 5 players paired with a decent offensive team around them will win titles.

A Dwight led Magic team has a chance of winning a title. Magic with no Dwight Howard has zero chance of winning a title and a 99% chance of being a perrenial 20-40 win team for the next decade with no shot of contending for a title. I can't believe people would actually think that this team could do better without Dwight. They sure would change their mind 2-3 years from now when the Magic continually suck ass.

I don't think people want this team without Dwight.

[Bensational]

Players like Dwight come along to a team once in a lifetime. Magic got lucky it happened twice.

As much as I respect his talent, I think this is overstating it a bit.

Durant, Kobe, Dirk, Wade, LBJ, etc ... are all current players that can carry a team like Dwight does.

That said: Already having D12 >>> hoping to get another Superstar.

once in a lifetime might be a stretch, but once in a decade, once in a generation probably isn't far from the mark. count up the amount of superstars in the league that have been able to lead their teams to the Finals, and you'll be looking at the amount of guys who are on the same tier as Dwight. then take anyone off the list who has had stronger supporting options than Lewis/Hedo and you'll see just how many guys really compare to Dwight.

right now, i count LBJ and Dirk as the only two.

[BadMofoPimp]

Players like Dwight come along to a team once in a lifetime. Magic got lucky it happened twice.

As much as I respect his talent, I think this is overstating it a bit.

Durant, Kobe, Dirk, Wade, LBJ, etc ... are all current players that can carry a team like Dwight does.

That said: Already having D12 >>> hoping to get another Superstar.

once in a lifetime might be a stretch, but once in a decade, once in a generation probably isn't far from the mark. count up the amount of superstars in the league that have been able to lead their teams to the Finals, and you'll be looking at the amount of guys who are on the same tier as Dwight. then take anyone off the list who has had stronger supporting options than Lewis/Hedo and you'll see just how many guys really compare to Dwight.

right now, i count LBJ and Dirk as the only two.

Tell that to Cleveland and Dallas fans. They never had superstars before Lebron and Dirk. And, most likely not after they leave also. Milwaukee never had another Jabbar as well. It is endless the amount of teams that have had long term futility in this league.

Sure, every team will have a few competitive years where they may get the #4 seed, but then they will end up rebuilding again after a few years. Only with Dwight will this team have a shot at competing for a title. Without him, the most likely outcome is watching a team fighting for the playoffs for the next decade. People are so blind not to realize this. At least the owners and Martins realize this.

Dwight is a game changer. No amount of assorted players or draft picks will replace a game changer. That will only keep the team around the 6th to 8th playoff seed level. That is not good enough for me. I would rather go for it all than settle for just above average.

[Optimus_Steel]

I think that has to to more with competent management. Dallas was crap for decades until Cuban bought the team and hired competent people to run the team. SA is a small market team that has a competent front office that build that team thru the draft, same with OKC. Right now, like it was mentioned by Last Guardian, we are not good enough to beat OKC and Miami. Not even current Boston team. And there is not going to be a trade for us that can bring us stars to pair alongside Dwight that will get us over the hump to beat those teams. We keep Dwight and we are going to be coming up short again and again. Not having Dwight on this team is not a death sentence for the Magic.

[Bensational]

I think that has to to more with competent management. Dallas was crap for decades until Cuban bought the team and hired competent people to run the team. SA is a small market team that has a competent front office that build that team thru the draft, same with OKC. Right now, like it was mentioned by Last Guardian, we are not good enough to beat OKC and Miami. Not even current Boston team. And there is not going to be a trade for us that can bring us stars to pair alongside Dwight that will get us over the hump to beat those teams. We keep Dwight and we are going to be coming up short again and again. Not having Dwight on this team is not a death sentence for the Magic.

how do we know there isn't a trade that can put this team back on the right path? there may not be a deal to get things done overnight, but all we need is one significant deal this summer, and we can add valuable, core guys through the draft and free agency going forwards. we don't have the assets to bring in a big 3 in one summer the way Boston did, but i'm sure we can bring in one guy to put next to Dwight whilst clearing space and go from there.

not having Dwight isn't a death sentence, but people are far too optimistic that this team will luck into a game changer of Dwight's calibre again any time soon. we may as well ride the opportunity we've got with Dwight til the bitter end, because getting a jump start on the process only puts us into the draft where we could 'potentially' draft a star. we would also have just as much chance of having the draft success of Charlotte, Sacramento, Detroit, Milwaukee, Golden State or any of the many other teams that have had multiple lottery picks over recent years yet who haven't managed to find a Dwight level superstar.

[pogiro]

If Dwight wants to stay, why hasn't he verbally committed to us? Doesn't even need to sign the extension..a verbal commitment would do.

Is it that hard to figure out an answer to your own question? We don't have a GM. We don't have a coach. The offseason isn't even here yet. How bout see who we draft first?

And he's already said that he talked too much over the course of last season and that it's something he regrets.

And just like he said in his press conference, and just like many have said before the press conference... anyone who makes a big decision like the one Dwight has to make, is going to take their time with it.

It's really not that hard to see. And hey, maybe he is noncommittal because he wants to leave. But to assume he's gone from him being silent is ridiculous. Him waiving his ETO showed plenty enough for now.

[BadMofoPimp]

people are far too optimistic that this team will luck into a game changer of Dwight's calibre again any time soon. we may as well ride the opportunity we've got with Dwight til the bitter end, because getting a jump start on the process only puts us into the draft where we could 'potentially' draft a star. we would also have just as much chance of having the draft success of Charlotte, Sacramento, Detroit, Milwaukee, Golden State or any of the many other teams that have had multiple lottery picks over recent years yet who haven't managed to find a Dwight level superstar.

That is it right there. Why give up a for sure winner just so that your team can hope for a future instead of a for sure competitor.

[OrlChamps2030]

If Dwight wants to stay, why hasn't he verbally committed to us? Doesn't even need to sign the extension..a verbal commitment would do.

Is it that hard to figure out an answer to your own question? We don't have a GM. We don't have a coach. The offseason isn't even here yet. How bout see who we draft first?

And he's already said that he talked too much over the course of last season and that it's something he regrets.

And just like he said in his press conference, and just like many have said before the press conference... anyone who makes a big decision like the one Dwight has to make, is going to take their time with it.

It's really not that hard to see. And hey, maybe he is noncommittal because he wants to leave. But to assume he's gone from him being silent is ridiculous. Him waiving his ETO showed plenty enough for now.

Pretty sure he initially asked for the trade in December..

[aleZ]

I think that has to to more with competent management. [cut] Not having Dwight on this team is not a death sentence for the Magic.

Yep. we've had one finals appearance since we drafted him, a few lottery years and quite a few early postseason eliminations. Part of the blame falls on managament, but Dwight isn't the kind of superstar that single handedly can lead a team to a title. And, like you said, there's no Lebron, Durant, or Kobe on the free agent or trade's horizon. Sooner or later we'll have to restart from square one, better do it now.

[drsd]

In these playoffs, it is quite clear that a healthy Magic team would have made some damage. But until Deron Williams settles on a team, Orlando will have a difficult time deciding the correct path to resign Howard; or to trade Howard.

If Williams intends to bolt and predetermines Orlando, then a Nelson, Richardson-2, and Anderson(SnT) for Williams and Petro might be a reasonable offer.

Orlando waives Duhon and drafts Doron Lamb(19) and Scott Machado(53).

The 2012/13 Magic start as:
Williams/Smith/Machado
Redick/Liggins/Lamb
Turkoglu/Richardson
Davis/Clark/Harper
Howard/Petro

Orlando needs a combo big and a 3rd string wing, and this is a team that could compete for the #2 or #3 seed (depending on the Heat gaining a PG or C). I will call it Sam Young and Jason Collins just to fill out the roster (both could fit in existing signablitiy space).

Your 2012/2013 Orlando Magic is:
Williams/Smith/Machado
Redick/Liggins/Lamb
Turkoglu/Young/Richardson
Davis/Clark/Harper
Howard/Petro/Collins

In the immortal words of former-GM Smith, "I like this team!" There are two ball handlers, and outside shooter, a mid-range guy, and a power dunker as the starting offense; on defense the starters would be above-average, but not elite. The bench continues to be a strength. All positions have guys that could contribute, and a 9 player rotation would be standard (Smith,Young,Clark, and Petro would be the major-minutes guys). The team is also buffered against injuries. If the team stayed healthy all season (unlikely), the above Magic roster could win the regular-season East and clearly has talent and depth to compete for a title.


..

[bigmoe1952]

Dwight Howard does not seem interested in returning. Fact is that if he does return the same issues that plagued us this season will plague us next year. The media is not going to let go of the Dwight drama. We also don’t know how this injury is going to affect him. It’s time the franchise makes a tough decision concerning the future of this team. Its time to start making sacrifices and start the rebuilding process. First by getting young players and good draft picks for Dwight. Second, to start shedding large contracts by trading them or letting them expire (Jamer, Hedo, Jrich, Baby, Q). The point is to reach financial flexibility with the cap. If we need to make signings on free agency then make them short term deals with team options. We need to cut Duhon right away and eat his pathetic contract because it will cost a first round pick to get rid of him. Keep the young players and play them to see what they have in the tank. We need to start accumulating young assets and draft picks while playing for as many ping pong balls as we can get for when we send Pat Williams to represent us in the draft lottery. We need to make the sacrifice to be bad for a couple of years to set up the foundation of a long term contender. We are already cleaning house with Otis and Stan gone, we might as well start rebuilding completely thru the draft with a new GM and coach. Now is the right time to make the tough decisions for the long term future of this team. If continue down the same path we are now, reaching to get good to decent players with large contracts to help Dwight then we are going to be stuck in this mess for years to come.

I agree. But what I fear is going to happen is the Magic will try to hover somewhere between rebuilding and staying in playoff contention. They will NOT commit to either course. They need to turn the page on Dwight and move on. They CAN NOT carry Dwight on the roster until the trade deadline. Geez! Enough is enough. If he does not sign an extension soon, it should be trade-city for Dwight...and his oh-so-loyal persona.

[BadMofoPimp]

I think that Dwight is leaning towards returning. There are no other options out there better than the Magic. The new GM will do everything within his power to reduce cap space so that the summer of 2013, the Magic can make a run at Josh Smith, Ellis and/or Iggy. Book it. Howard isn't leaving no matter how many people post in this thread hoping he does.

[steelej1]

Hey guys I just wanted to get the perspective of a Magic fan on this. I know Dwight might not be traded but if he does decide he wants to be, what would you think of the following:

Nets sign Ryan Anderson to $7mill offer sheet and Orlando doesn’t match because they cannot afford to pay $14mill per year for being over the cap. The Nets come to Orlando in a Dwight trade agreeing to take back Hedo as well and give the Magic back Anderson (who is signed long-term at a reasonable salary), rookie Marshon Brooks, Gerald Wallace (assuming he doesn't opt out), Jordan Farmar and a 2013 1st rd pick.

It gives you guys some good young pieces plus major salary relief so you can make a move or two and then have unlimited options next summer.

Thoughts?

[OrlandO]

Hey guys I just wanted to get the perspective of a Magic fan on this. I know Dwight might not be traded but if he does decide he wants to be, what would you think of the following:

Nets sign Ryan Anderson to $7mill offer sheet and Orlando doesn’t match because they cannot afford to pay $14mill per year for being over the cap. The Nets come to Orlando in a Dwight trade agreeing to take back Hedo as well and give the Magic back Anderson (who is signed long-term at a reasonable salary), rookie Marshon Brooks, Gerald Wallace (assuming he doesn't opt out), Jordan Farmar and a 2013 1st rd pick.

It gives you guys some good young pieces plus major salary relief so you can make a move or two and then have unlimited options next summer.

Thoughts?

[tiderulz]

Hey guys I just wanted to get the perspective of a Magic fan on this. I know Dwight might not be traded but if he does decide he wants to be, what would you think of the following:

Nets sign Ryan Anderson to $7mill offer sheet and Orlando doesn’t match because they cannot afford to pay $14mill per year for being over the cap. The Nets come to Orlando in a Dwight trade agreeing to take back Hedo as well and give the Magic back Anderson (who is signed long-term at a reasonable salary), rookie Marshon Brooks, Gerald Wallace (assuming he doesn't opt out), Jordan Farmar and a 2013 1st rd pick.

It gives you guys some good young pieces plus major salary relief so you can make a move or two and then have unlimited options next summer.

Thoughts?

if Ryan is looking for $7mil, we would just match the offer. Orlando isnt over the cap right now.

[steelej1]

the cap is 58 mil and you guys are at 65.8 for next year without anderson

[tiderulz]

the cap is 58 mil and you guys are at 65.8 for next year without anderson

$55 or so guaranteed. Unless Nelson has picked up his option, which he hasnt commented on.

[eyriq]

the cap is 58 mil and you guys are at 65.8 for next year without anderson

I think you are confusing the cap with the tax.