MJ shopping 2nd overall pick

Post #1 » by **HMFFL** » Thu Jun 7, 2012 9:46 pm

This deserves it's own thread. With all the early number one picks that are being shopped around, I believe it's a great time for our management to move Josh Smith, if they're truly seeking a top 5 pick for him (like last year).

Alex Kennedy: The Charlotte Bobcats are shopping the second overall pick, according to multiple sources. Twitter

Superiorblogman · Post #2 » by **Superiorblogman** » Thu Jun 7, 2012 11:03 pm

What are they wanting for it is the question? Also as I have been saying all along this draft is not as great as some of you would think. Why trade such a great pick? Lastly, I agree with 2,7,8, and 10 all reportedly available this is a great time to trade Josh and or JJ.

monsterblock · Post #3 » by **monsterblock** » Fri Jun 8, 2012 2:07 am

Joe and Marvin for a pick.... nah, but you never know what MJ is going to do.

evildallas · Post #4 » by **evildallas** » Fri Jun 8, 2012 6:44 am

I understand the desire to trade the pick, and depending on what MJ wants I disagree with it. I think this is a 1 superstar draft, with another 4 potential all-stars but potential flops, and then 20-25 solid starters who could also flop. The problem with that distribution is the difference between #8 and #15 is primarily price tag. You really need to do your research and figure out the players that work best with your system and have the most drive. In fact I like some of the players projected from 11-16 more than the ones projected 7-10. Bargains are there to be had.

At #2 overall, Charlotte is paying the most and still might get a flop or a relative flop, but they should at least get a quality player. I think the idea of trading out is probably panicking about short term record. The way Charlotte builds a winner is to suck for multiple years and hopefully score multiple top 5 picks like OKC. We traded for a high salary player when we had 13 wins. It didn't accelerate the winning process that much but could have cost us some ping pong balls in 2007 and 2008. If Charlotte does the same thing they may get back to mediocrity a year or two quicker but won't have the base of talent to compete for a title.

Having said that if Charlotte is desperate to win some games then I'd gladly work out a deal for Joe if they wanted him or Josh if they preferred him. Andre Drummond might flop from questionable work ethic but I'd chance it. If you want to go the safe route you could use the pick on Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. If Joe and taking back bad contracts is what MJ wants then I'd look at GSW or NO for a Josh deal. Rebuild with Jeff Teague, Al Horford, and 3 rookies with whatever bad contracts come back (likely Maggette, Thomas, and either Okafor or Biedrins).

Of course if we were going to trade Josh and Joe I would have rather had a new coach for the makeover. Larry Drew on a 1 year contract would be horrible for rookies to develop under.

td00 · Post #5 » by **td00** » Fri Jun 8, 2012 1:46 pm

Plain and simple, MJ has to hit a home run with this choice.

His first preference is probably to get an experienced vet, like a Rudy Gay. You have to have a guy that sells tickets.

Second, he has a raw Andre Drummond waiting to hear his name. I think he's as raw if not more raw than Bynum was out of high school. Drummond's one year at UConn was not impressive, so if he is selected, he needs a Kareem type coach who will bring him along.

Charlotte could have benefitted with Patrick Ewing on the bench. If he's not taken, I suggest the Hawks bring him in and let him handle the big men. I don't see LD making any changes though. He's not going to admit improvements are needed there.

If you think Sund can pull off a draft pick for Josh trade, don't be on it. He has one foot out the door and as an organization, that's the worse position to be in. I guess the ASG has this entire staff working on the cheap.

Post #6 » by **HMFFL** » Fri Jun 8, 2012 4:00 pm

In today's rumors, Rudy Gay possibly for the 2nd overall pick.

http://www.foxsportsohio.com/06/06/12/N ... eedID=8888

FCNATL85 · Post #7 » by **FCNATL85** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:45 am

If LAL wants Josh badly and CHA might consider trading salaries and dropping bad contracts while getting a solid rebuilding block for the short term, here is something to consider:

LAL receives Smith and Diop and sends Gasol to CHA and Mc Roberts to ATL

CHA receives Gasol, Teague and LAL 13 1st and sends Diop and future 2nd to LAL , Thomas and 12 #2 to ATL

ATL receives Thomas , Mc Roberts and #2 and sends Smith, and future 2nd to LAL, Teague to CHA

ATL sign Miller at the PG (3x5M) and saves on signing ..or losing Teague later.

ATL either moves Thomas for a 2nd (POR #40) or amesty him...or trade him to DET for Maxiell who wants out badly(if so ATL trade I Johnson for a 2nd)... or could trade down #2 and Thomas for #4 or 5 with CLE or SAC. Drummond still being the traget at 4-5.

ATL resigns Pargo and Green or could go after Ray Allen if cheap...(2x2.5M)

FA (Miller) - Pargo(RS)- Green (RS)
JJ- FA (Allen)- Green (RS)
Marvin- Taylor (23)- JJ
Horford- Johnson - McRoberts
Zaza- Drummond- Sims (43)

Superiorblogman · Post #8 » by **Superiorblogman** » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:54 am

FCNATL85 wrote:If LAL wants Josh badly and CHA might consider trading salaries and dropping bad contracts while getting a solid rebuilding block for the short term, here is something to consider:

LAL receives Smith and Diop and sends Gasol to CHA and Mc Roberts to ATL

CHA receives Gasol, Teague and LAL 13 1st and sends Diop and future 2nd to LAL , Thomas and 12 #2 to ATL

ATL receives Thomas , Mc Roberts and #2 and sends Smith, and future 2nd to LAL, Teague to CHA

ATL sign Miller at the PG (3x5M) and saves on signing ..or losing Teague later.

ATL either moves Thomas for a 2nd (POR #40) or amesty him...or trade him to DET for Maxiell who wants out badly(if so ATL trade I Johnson for a 2nd)... or could trade down #2 and Thomas for #4 or 5 with CLE or SAC. Drummond still being the traget at 4-5.

ATL resigns Pargo and Green or could go after Ray Allen if cheap...(2x2.5M)

FA (Miller) - Pargo(RS)- Green (RS)
JJ- FA (Allen)- Green (RS)
Marvin- Taylor (23)- JJ
Horford- Johnson - McRoberts
Zaza- Drummond- Sims (43)

Can't amnesty someone you traded for and that is just the beginning of things that are undesirable about your model. No way you pick Drummond #2 to put him behind Zaza for anything in the world, Zaza simply is not a starting Center.

FCNATL85 · Post #9 » by **FCNATL85** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:55 am

Neither wil be Drummond at season start. He would come off the bench to gain his minutes and confidence, initially.
Obviously, the plan would be for him to start ahead of Zaza but when?

As far as Thomas is concerned, trade him for a (late) 2nd. Package #43 and that pick to move in the early second with a servicable bench player at their position. Ezeli (big, rb and D), K. Murphy (SG, shooting, shooting)...

Superiorblogman · Post #10 » by **Superiorblogman** » Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:36 am

FCNATL85 wrote:Neither wil be Drummond at season start. He would come off the bench to gain his minutes and confidence, initially.
Obviously, the plan would be for him to start ahead of Zaza but when?

As far as Thomas is concerned, trade him for a (late) 2nd. Package #43 and that pick to move in the early second with a servicable bench player at their position. Ezeli (big, rb and D), K. Murphy (SG, shooting, shooting)...

Zaza would not start for 1 minute over Drummond end of story. You mold him and even lose games if necessary but you never start Zaza over him. You don't take a player #2 and sit him for some guy that is not good at but one thing and could only be with you for 1 more year. Zaza only rebounds well, Drummond will be a better rim protector and finisher from day 1.

evildallas · Post #11 » by **evildallas** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:34 pm

David Thorpe suggests trading Al Horford for the #2 pick to draft Thomas Robinson. The thought is that Robinson could likely provide most of what Horford does for a third of the price allowing the Hawks to survive the overpaying of Joe Johnson. It's sound in theory.

There is also a rumor of Bobcats trading down to 4 and getting the 24th pick to boot for the #2. At #4 Thomas Robinson is still likely there. At 4 you could roll the dice on Andre Drummond as well, which is a thought if we dealt Al for the 4th and 31st (or 24th).

If we could turn Al into the 4th and 24th and plug in either Robinson or Drummond, and then use the 23rd and 24th picks on Harkless and Nicholson or some other combination of useful prospects (maybe take a chance on Wroten or Miller) we'd have the flexibility to resign Josh if desired and have 3 rotational players on fixed salaries to ride out the Joe Johnson years. I don't really like 3 rookies at the same time, but the fixed deals go a long way to offset the huge raises for Joe.

Superiorblogman · Post #12 » by **Superiorblogman** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:35 pm

evildallas wrote:David Thorpe suggests trading Al Horford for the #2 pick to draft Thomas Robinson. The thought is that Robinson could likely provide most of what Horford does for a third of the price allowing the Hawks to survive the overpaying of Joe Johnson. It's sound in theory.

There is also a rumor of Bobcats trading down to 4 and getting the 24th pick to boot for the #2. At #4 Thomas Robinson is still likely there. At 4 you could roll the dice on Andre Drummond as well, which is a thought if we dealt Al for the 4th and 31st (or 24th).

If we could turn Al into the 4th and 24th and plug in either Robinson or Drummond, and then use the 23rd and 24th picks on Harkless and Nicholson or some other combination of useful prospects (maybe take a chance on Wroten or Miller) we'd have the flexibility to resign Josh if desired and have 3 rotational players on fixed salaries to ride out the Joe Johnson years. I don't really like 3 rookies at the same time, but the fixed deals go a long way to offset the huge raises for Joe.

None of that makes any sense. Al has made the All NBA team before you don't trade someone that was looked at as a top 15 option in the NBA for a bunch of if's. Stupid suggestion.

evildallas · Post #13 » by **evildallas** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:05 am

Superiorblogman wrote:
evildallas wrote:David Thorpe suggests trading Al Horford for the #2 pick to draft Thomas Robinson. The thought is that Robinson could likely provide most of what Horford does for a third of the price allowing the Hawks to survive the overpaying of Joe Johnson. It's sound in theory.

There is also a rumor of Bobcats trading down to 4 and getting the 24th pick to boot for the #2. At #4 Thomas Robinson is still likely there. At 4 you could roll the dice on Andre Drummond as well, which is a thought if we dealt Al for the 4th and 31st (or 24th).

If we could turn Al into the 4th and 24th and plug in either Robinson or Drummond, and then use the 23rd and 24th picks on Harkless and Nicholson or some other combination of useful prospects (maybe take a chance on Wroten or Miller) we'd have the flexibility to resign Josh if desired and have 3 rotational players on fixed salaries to ride out the Joe Johnson years. I don't really like 3 rookies at the same time, but the fixed deals go a long way to offset the huge raises for Joe.

None of that makes any sense. Al has made the All NBA team before you don't trade someone that was looked at as a top 15 option in the NBA for a bunch of if's. Stupid suggestion.

Did the Hawks make the playoffs essentially without Al Horford?
Is Thomas Robinson projected to provide essentially the same on court performance as Al Horford?
Does the fixed salary of the pick equate to just over a third of Al Horford's salary over the same time period?
Would it safer to hang on to the proven Al Horford?
Can the Atlanta Hawks necessarily afford to do that because of cap rules?

I'll help you out. That's 4 yes and 1 no. It's the no on question 5 that provides the logic behind the suggestion. You may disagree with it, but I don't think labeling it as "Stupid" is appropriate. Risky, sure, but stupid?

BTW, Joe Johnson once made 3rd team all-nba, should we not think about trading him? Josh Smith would have been on the 4th team last year at F, but didn't make all NBA because of legacy votes for Carmelo Anthony and Dirk Nowitzki rewarded them for playing hard half a season. That means his should be traded? Also weren't you in another thread calling to blow the whole roster up? When you blow up a roster you trade valuable pieces and take chances on prospects. Partially because those prospects may one day be even better than what you gave up and because they are cheaper you can add other pieces along the way.

MaceCase · Post #14 » by **MaceCase** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:57 am

If you are considering Al for 4 and 24....why not the Blazers for 6 and 11? Seems like much better value, Drummond is still on the board by most accounts at 6 and you can go for a more fundamental big in Zeller at 11 to complement him or target Guards in Marshall, Waiters or Lamb if he drops.

Superiorblogman · Post #15 » by **Superiorblogman** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:17 am

It would be stupid to trade Al Horford, the player with the contract that makes opposing coaches say whatever they are paying him it is not enough. Coaches like George Karl said that. While, I have never heard that about Josh or Joe. Thomas Robinson is a PF and it is just stupid to keep stockpiling them. It is just stupid to go on ESPN or any other site and just pass along what they say or think without thinking it out. Al makes 12 a year Josh makes over 13 next year. He is not taking a pay cut. The guy will be wanting 14-16 for 5 to 6 years. That is the guy you trade for a cheaper option and sorry that you people can't see that the team was set up for this to be the case. Sorry that you can't see that they had to go outside the organization for Ferry because no-one from within has the heart to make tough moves. It is quite obvious Josh will not make it through this year with the Hawks and even more obvious that his value will only decline if we wait to the trade deadline to do what is inevitable.

Your only prayer to Josh making it through the year is the Hawks finding a taker for Joe.

monsterblock · Post #16 » by **monsterblock** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:25 am

MaceCase wrote:If you are considering Al for 4 and 24....why not the Blazers for 6 and 11? Seems like much better value, Drummond is still on the board by most accounts at 6 and you can go for a more fundamental big in Zeller at 11 to complement him or target Guards in Marshall, Waiters or Lamb if he drops.

i would be okay with Drumond and extras for either Horford or Josh. Josh is the better talent, and smarter player, but Horford is the better contract.

a mid-round talent as an extra would be enough

Post #17 » by **ATL Boy** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:22 am

monsterblock wrote:
MaceCase wrote:If you are considering Al for 4 and 24....why not the Blazers for 6 and 11? Seems like much better value, Drummond is still on the board by most accounts at 6 and you can go for a more fundamental big in Zeller at 11 to complement him or target Guards in Marshall, Waiters or Lamb if he drops.

i would be okay with Drumond and extras for either Horford or Josh. Josh is the better talent, and smarter player, but Horford is the better contract.

a mid-round talent as an extra would be enough

I will give u the first one about Josh being the better talent but cmon smarter player?

Superiorblogman · Post #18 » by **Superiorblogman** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:36 am

ATL Boy wrote:
monsterblock wrote:
MaceCase wrote:If you are considering Al for 4 and 24....why not the Blazers for 6 and 11? Seems like much better value, Drummond is still on the board by most accounts at 6 and you can go for a more fundamental big in Zeller at 11 to complement him or target Guards in Marshall, Waiters or Lamb if he drops.

i would be okay with Drumond and extras for either Horford or Josh. Josh is the better talent, and smarter player, but Horford is the better contract.

a mid-round talent as an extra would be enough

I will give u the first one about Josh being the better talent but cmon smarter player?

The Josh Smith love on this site is over the top. He can do no wrong. They actually think this guy that has being taking the same stupid shots that he obviously can not make when the going gets tough for all these years is a smart player. He is the epitome of insane.

myrak433 · Post #19 » by **myrak433** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:50 am

superblogman wrote
The Josh Smith love on this site is over the top. He can do no wrong. They actually think this guy that has being taking the same stupid shots that he obviously can not make when the going gets tough for all these years is a smart player. He is the epitome of insane.

if you go to any other teams boards I am pretty sure they would not want to trade their best player either....... Josh Smith is the Hawks best player.

but I wouldn't mind traded him for this dude! opps I hope that "D" word didn't offend you.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agNpnZH1Ang&feature=fvwrel[/youtube]

this would be JJ help right here

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzKu0bogqIw[/youtube]