Trading the #2 pick - dicussion (merged)

[bobcats3wallace]

If we're not taking Drummond, I'm glad we're considering trading down. But please don't let it be to pick Zeller. The dream is still the Portland trade. If we walked out of this draft with 2 out of PJ3/Lamb/White/Ross (w/out it being both Lamb & Ross which wouldn't make a ton of sense), I'd be thrilled.

I hate Carolina, but I would honestly rather have Zeller than Drummond. Drummond is a living, walking, breathing bust. Not to mention Drummond's fit with Biz is terrible. On the other hand Zeller would be a very good fit next to Biz.

I see the potential that the 6 & 11 may carry, but I just don't know if I like it. To me at those two picks we would be picking role players. The same type of model we already had before dismanteling this team. At least at 2 you have a chance for a B+/A- type player and borderline all star. I'm not sold that either PJ3/Lamb/White/Ross will be more than a role player. Certainly I can see the potential in Lamb and PJ3, and that would probably be the only combo I would be happy with at 6&11, but even still I think I would rather just keep 2 and pick Beal/Robinson.

[Stun704]

we should trade for Ariza
Mags and DJ for 10 and Ariza

Kemba/PG
Hendo/Reggie Williams
PJ3/Ariza
T-Rob/UPS
Bismack/Mullens

[doc.end]

we should trade for Ariza
Mags and DJ for 10 and Ariza

Kemba/PG
Hendo/Reggie Williams
PJ3/Ariza
T-Rob/UPS
Bismack/Mullens

Run it thru trade checker first

[fatlever]

re: signing jamison and hill or other similar players. i touched on this at the end of the season in the 2012 and beyond thread. we have to add some vets to this team. ideally a vet center and vet pg, but regardless, vets who can teach and are great locker room guys. this isnt so much to make us better next year but to give these young players some role models. it would be foolish for us to have a team full of youngsters w/out any positive vets around to teach them out to be pros. i dont want our young guys learning from diop, maggette and tyrus.

[fatlever]

merging with the trade thread.

[fatlever]

There is an article at realgm that the Hornets would consider sending away the #10 pick if someone would also take Okafor or Ariza. Does anyone know what their contracts look like, how many more years?


Im a little more interested in this scenario, staying at #2 and taking on a contract for #10 than I would be at trading down and giving up the #2 for two later picks.

If we did this, we would be guaranteed our top choice at #2 and not leave it up to chance, but still get two young guys. I hear alot about how there isnt much of a difference 2-8, which might be true today, but going forward there will be one or two guys that will seperate themselves from the group. My hope is that Cho can pick out that guy.

that seems like way too much salary to take on for #10.

[fatlever]

here is the link to the story lockdown posted.

http://www.foxsportsohio.com/06/06/12/N ... eedID=8888

[TheKingofSting]

re: signing jamison and hill or other similar players. i touched on this at the end of the season in the 2012 and beyond thread. we have to add some vets to this team. ideally a vet center and vet pg, but regardless, vets who can teach and are great locker room guys. this isnt so much to make us better next year but to give these young players some role models. it would be foolish for us to have a team full of youngsters w/out any positive vets around to teach them out to be pros. i dont want our young guys learning from diop, maggette and tyrus.

Very well said

[fatlever]

http://www.stepienrules.com/2012-articl ... short.html

The Charlotte Bobcats are shopping the 2nd overall pick - I've been talking about them potentially shopping this pick ever since they lost out on Anthony Davis. Charlotte needs a lot of help. I think Kentucky could have seriously given them a game last season if the two teams squared-off at Rupp. As of now, MJ and company are asking a ton for that pick though; by that I mean you might have to take back former Cleveland Cavaliers Lottery Pick DeSagana Diop to get it.

This from Bill Ingram at Hoopsworld (via Twitter): "League source confirms #2 pick for sale, but Bobcats asking for the world and will look to include Diop or Tyrus Thomas...."


If the Bobcats would take pick number four to allow themselve to dump Diop and/or Thomas on the Cavaliers in order for Cleveland to move up two spots I'd give the tires a quality kick on that. The Cavs are way under the cap, and per the new CBA they may need to look for ways to actually spend money in order to get themselves to the minimum salary cap floor. They could take a bad contract right now, so long as it doesn't tie them up too much moving forward. I really wouldn't want to give up pick number 24 as well though if you're making me eat those contract dollars. Maybe I throw in pick 33 or 34 instead. Maybe.

are the cavs far enough under the cap to absorb tyrus straight up in a swap of #2 for #4? if so, it would be hard to turn that deal down.

[Jaruff]

Good question. They aren't under the cap today but it's obvious they won't resign Antwan Jamison. I imagine they could release/buy him out for a token amount and then do the trade.

It would have to be Tyrus though. I wouldn't trade back two spots to rid myself of an expiring contract. I think Diop might actually be decent this year if he's healthy. Not Dallas decent but usable as more than a suit model.

[ZackAttack23]

LOL! One of the guys I think Taylor on The Drive on WFNZ just had an orgasm when he saw the Bobcats had discussions about Rudy Gay for # 2 pick. I was like wtf?! I wonder if he knows about his HUGE contract! F that! I want MKG!

[SWedd523]

http://www.stepienrules.com/2012-articles/june/bobcats-shopping-pick-harrison-barnes-and-kyrie-irving-and-brad-beal-is-not-short.html

If the Bobcats would take pick number four to allow themselve to dump Diop and/or Thomas on the Cavaliers in order for Cleveland to move up two spots I'd give the tires a quality kick on that.

I'd atually be quite interested in something along those lines.

[captaincrunk]

http://www.stepienrules.com/2012-articles/june/bobcats-shopping-pick-harrison-barnes-and-kyrie-irving-and-brad-beal-is-not-short.html

If the Bobcats would take pick number four to allow themselve to dump Diop and/or Thomas on the Cavaliers in order for Cleveland to move up two spots I'd give the tires a quality kick on that.

I'd atually be quite interested in something along those lines.

yeah not sure which I'd want more, their 24th pick or dropping Tyrus without using the amnesty provision. either way I'd almost prefer to pick 4th because it makes drummond and t rob more likely

[bobcats3wallace]

Cleveland is currently sitting at 41 million which is almost 17 million under the cap. So yes they have the space to take tryus. As far as I am concerned if we could unload Thomas the 24th pick would be a distant after thought. It would be a no brainer. And while yes we can amnesty Thomas, mj would still have to pay the bill which would limit his ability to pay other players.

Trade 2 and Thomas for 4 and cho would once again proove he is the man. At 4 you either look at Robinson if he is there, but you could also look at Barnes who would 100 percent be there. And right now some are speculating we may look Barnes at 2, which is why I threw him in there.

What is the minimum spending floor? We are right around cleveland cap wise so it may affect us, may be a reason to add salary in gay.

[Battery]

Ridding ourselves of Tyrus Thomas for nothing is the equivalent of getting back a number 1 pick.

you mean like through the use of the amnesty provision?

No, I mean the negativity he brings is soooooo bad that losing him for nothing is as refreshing as bringing in another first round pick. He really needs to go.

[KingCat]

am I the only one who would be extremely disappointed if we trade the #2 for Gay. Rudy Gay isn't a super-star and I feel we will be hooping right back on the thread mill if it happens, I feel T-Rob and MKG will be better then Gay and you don't trade for stars in there peak when you are rebuilding.

[fatlever]

am I the only one who would be extremely disappointed if we trade the #2 for Gay. Rudy Gay isn't a super-star and I feel we will be hooping right back on the thread mill if it happens, I feel T-Rob and MKG will be better then Gay and you don't trade for stars in there peak when you are rebuilding.

i have yet to find anyone who (edit: has half a clue about the salary cap that) thinks trading #2 for gay is a good trade, so no you arent the only one. its a horrible trade.

[captaincrunk]

am I the only one who would be extremely disappointed if we trade the #2 for Gay. Rudy Gay isn't a super-star and I feel we will be hooping right back on the thread mill if it happens, I feel T-Rob and MKG will be better then Gay and you don't trade for stars in there peak when you are rebuilding.

I'd be quite disappointed myself. He's not even that young compared to the guys in the draft

[HornetJail]

I'd be more disappointed because of the contract. That would strap us for years. I'd be disappointed if we traded say Byron Mullens for Gay because of the $15-20 million we'd owe him every year. Also, talent-wise, I'd rather have: MKG, Drummond, Beal, Moultrie, Harkless, Marshall, Lilliard, Leonard, or White on my team for the future than Gay. I think they all have a good chance at having better careers than Gay, and we'd only need to pay them a fraction of what Gay gets paid. So, thanks but no **** thanks.

[doc.end]

The trade with Cavs looks interesting. Assuming MJ is unlikely to use an amnesty option on Thomas and we don't want to wait three years till he gets some value as an expiring pick, trading two spots down within the same draft tier to move him seems like a good idea. And a good fit for Cavs too if they have clear preference who would they like to get as they really need to throw money on somebody to met minimum salary next year (they are projected around 32M next year and that's with first round picks signed). That strikesme as a trade Cho would do (as being rumoured to keep a good image around the league with thinking how trades would benefit the other side too). If Cavs would throw in a second rounder, even better, no matter if would keep the pick or sell it for money which could be used on buying out/amneystying Carroll or something.

I kind of like the idea of taking a bad contract from Hornetss for their pick. I mean both Ariza and Okafor end in 2014 (player option included) - which is the year when all our current players would be gone unless extended/re-signed. Except Tyrus Thomas who could be gone by amnesty/trade with Cavs. I.e. in that year we would need to sign players to meet minimum salary no matter what and Okafor/Ariza would have some value as an expiring. A big one in case of Emeka. I see no problem with having some expiring as pieces next year (Diop, Maggette, Carroll) and for the prize lottery pick, I see no problem to add another one ending one year further (hopefully in an exchange for one of our expiring not just by absorbing it with capspace). The only issue is Emeka playing the same position and the same role as Bismack.

If we do moves along those lines, draft smartly, add vetera players like Hill l for reasonable money, add Sloan on top of that that could be a nice comeback from this season (not that we would compete or anything but would be on the right track).