Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Jeremy Lamb (HOU)

[Undefeated]

That's an awfully long paragraph to tell us what we already know. Dude has an unreal midrange game (and floater) when hes dialed in. But he still doesn't get to the line and he still can't decide if he wants to defend or not. The key there is the deciding to settle bit IMO - Lamb settles far to often for a shot that won't get to the line. He shoots well from the line, and he'd look phenomenal if he were willing to absorb more contact and take a pass on some of those floaters and pull-ups.

To say that he doesn't shy away from contact is silly though. He obviously does. If that weren't the case he'd be going to the line 6-7 times a game easy.

So, you're going to keep saying he doesn't get to the line when he's gets there at an average rate considering a lot of his field goal attempts consists of assisted field goals? Okay there, man. If you already knew, then you would've mentioned his floater a few pages back. Like I said, if he was that afraid to go inside where there is a lot of a contact, he wouldn't have all these floaters.

[fredericklove]

Exactly. When people bring up the I couldn't careless about the SF argument, it only shows me how much they've actually seen of Lamb play. It was a world of difference when Lamb didn't have to share the ball with Boatright and Napier. Anyone remember his game against Villanova? He literally went HAM scoring in a variety of ways; shooting step-backs comfortably, short pull-ups from the elbow, wetting jumpers off of a front right-to-left change, floaters down middle, and an assortment of teardrops. Granted it was a one game display, but it supported my view that throughout the whole season when Lamb didn't have to spend time with either one of those ball hogs in the backcourt, he looked very engaged offensively and was very decisive in his moves. Same thing happened in the NCAA Tournament against Iowa State for like a 5 minute stretch when he decided to step on the brakes and display his offensive dominance. Of course there were times when Lamb would absolutely shy away from contact when he had an opening in the defense to attack just like any other player who at times would "settle", but that's on his supreme confidence to drill those two-pointers at such an efficient rate. But it comes back to the point about his feel for the basket. You look at some of the best slashing/penetrating Guards in the NBA like D-Wade and D-Rose as prime examples and Tony Parker and Ty Lawson to a lesser extent, what they all have common is their bag of tricks when it comes to getting their shot off within 5-feet of the basket. And that's exactly what I've seen from Lamb when he does decide not to settle, so the criticism that he has a phobia even just a touch aren't true at all. Just like those guys I've mentioned, his touch around the basket is phenomenal and almost unstoppable rarely missing. He releases the ball high and quick getting the perfect arch to get over the top of the out-stretched arms of a shot-blocker before stopping on two-feet. If not, he uses that last step to extend it into a lay-up at the rim. At this stage, you kind of expect prospects to finish with either hand, yet so many don't, but Lamb does. He's a very fast thinker when he has to score inside like using his inside hand to finish when he beats his defender and using his back to shield the ball from being blocked against the defender trying to recover or the weakside trailer while at the same increasing the probability of a three point play. It's like the hole gets bigger when he's there. Basically, I see a prospect who has some refining to do, but the skills are there. It's overblown that Lamb is utterly afraid of any contact even a single touch of the fingertips.

I also saw Van Gundy during the game broadcast this week, he especially emphasized on the importance of floaters in the NBA, its an extremely important tool to have in your arsenal once you break down defenders and going into the lane. And I pretty much think everyone would agree that Lamb has a devastated floater. As much as he doesn't like to absorb contact, its not like he's got no moves when he's driving. His floater has always been consistent, and he can pull that floater off from far distance too. To be honest, a prospect that attacks without a go-to-move is scarier than one with a go-to-move in the lane, e.g. Austin Rivers. He thinks his layups will work in the NBA? No chance.

IMO, floater is the best move to use for one that doesn't like absorbing contacts in the lane.

[fredericklove]

Fernis give it up. I said the same things, others have too, they just can't accept it.

Accept what? We show logic, unlike the ones over there in Lillard thread that talks about how Lillard has NO flaws. You're the one that agrees to the NO flaws comment over there. So don't come to us saying we're ridiculous on Lamb.

[Fenris-77]

Really?

Last time I checked our starting wings DeRozan and JJ can't shoot a 3 to save their life
or create their own offence that well. Would also be nice to have a wing who isn't a glaring
tweener and does what his position requires.

Really really. Unless you think it's somehow more pressing to replace DeMar than JJ? I think it's pretty obvious who the weak link in there.

Beyond positional considerations Lamb does fill a need on the shot creation front, but that's paired with the rest of his issues. The team also needs an alpha personality on offense and better two way players, neither of which Lamb helps with. He also doesn't really shoot the three all that well, although I'll admit he has promise there, since his range is good and it's his selection that seems to be holding him back more than anything else.

My main issue with Lamb is that I think he has much less upside than people seem willing to admit unless he addresses some of key weaknesses. He just doesn't come across as a big work-ethic guy and I worry that he won't manage to improve where he needs too, at least not enough to justify taking him in the top 10 this year.

Notice that I didn't say "he won't manage it" just that I worry he won't. That level of worry is what drops him down my draft board, not that I think he's incapable of improving his game.

[Garmfay]

Fernis give it up. I said the same things, others have too, they just can't accept it.

Accept what? We show logic, unlike the ones over there in Lillard thread that talks about how Lillard has NO flaws. You're the one that agrees to the NO flaws comment over there. So don't come to us saying we're ridiculous on Lamb.

You are making yourself look like a fool. Not every pro-Lillard guy is anti-Lamb. I'm not pro lillard at all as I've compared him to Mo Williams and to a lesser extend a Jerryd Bayless type player who we don't need.

[fredericklove]

Then why does scouts say Lamb has alot of upside, are they being stupid for saying that then?

[Undefeated]

Fernis give it up. I said the same things, others have too, they just can't accept it.

Accept what? We show logic, unlike the ones over there in Lillard thread that talks about how Lillard has NO flaws. You're the one that agrees to the NO flaws comment over there. So don't come to us saying we're ridiculous on Lamb.

I'm not going to name names, but what's amusing to me is the double standard that exists in certain parts of this board. I haven't seen any Lamb supporters or whatever they want to call it trashing Lillard, but you have a few Lillard bandwagoners coming from the blind spot straight up saying they hate Lamb and start trashing him. I mean, you have people bring up the weak conference as a means why Lillard scored so much against inferior competition, but when we bring up that Lamb played with two ball hogs they act like Lamb should somehow overcome it. At the end of the day, I'm just happy to add some talent on the Raptors if that's Lillard or Lamb. But just don't come out of nowhere and don't expect the same thing to go back at you. Sorry to go off-topic, just something I had to get off my chest lol

[Garmfay]

And yet why to some experts/scouts have Lamb in late lottery in the teens? Hes all over the board. You can't just call those people idoits.

[Fenris-77]

Accept what? We show logic, unlike the ones over there in Lillard thread that talks about how Lillard has NO flaws. You're the one that agrees to the NO flaws comment over there. So don't come to us saying we're ridiculous on Lamb.

What you show an inability to put forth a balanced analysis of the draft prospect in question. There's a little too much rah-rah pom pom waiving going on here and not enough honest evaluation. That's equally true of anyone who says Lillard has no faults of course. Lillard has very little in the way of proven team leadership skills and that's a pretty big issue when you're the best ranked PG on the board. What Lillard doesn't have is motor issues, range issues, or FTA issues, which is why a lot of very sensible people prefer him to Lamb as a prospect. Some other very sensible people like Lamb more becuase of the mid-range game and scoring instincts. It's not a contest though.

If you could stop treating this as an us versus them paradigm for a little while everyone would be better off. I don't dislike Lamb as a prospect at all, and I wouldn't even be upset if the Raps draft him. I don't think he's any kind of lock to be a great NBA player though, and I have legitimate worries about the holes in his game. Why that makes everyone so defensive is beyond me.

[Waylon Mercy]

Really?

Last time I checked our starting wings DeRozan and JJ can't shoot a 3 to save their life
or create their own offence that well. Would also be nice to have a wing who isn't a glaring
tweener and does what his position requires.

Really really. Unless you think it's somehow more pressing to replace DeMar than JJ? I think it's pretty obvious who the weak link in there.

Beyond positional considerations Lamb does fill a need on the shot creation front, but that's paired with the rest of his issues. The team also needs an alpha personality on offense and better two way players, neither of which Lamb helps with. He also doesn't really shoot the three all that well, although I'll admit he has promise there, since his range is good and it's his selection that seems to be holding him back more than anything else.

My main issue with Lamb is that I think he has much less upside than people seem willing to admit unless he addresses some of key weaknesses. He just doesn't come across as a big work-ethic guy and I worry that he won't manage to improve where he needs too, at least not enough to justify taking him in the top 10 this year.

Notice that I didn't say "he won't manage it" just that I worry he won't. That level of worry is what drops him down my draft board, not that I think he's incapable of improving his game.

Where does Lamb rank on your personal draft board right now?

[shortmikeshortt]

Fernis give it up. I said the same things, others have too, they just can't accept it.

Accept what? We show logic, unlike the ones over there in Lillard thread that talks about how Lillard has NO flaws. You're the one that agrees to the NO flaws comment over there. So don't come to us saying we're ridiculous on Lamb.

Yes but I read 100s of anti Lillard comments a day and leave it be...your obsession with countering or snapping back at EVERY...SINGLE...Lamb weakness post is just exhausting...

I know every counter argument you have for him now back to front, we get it. You like Lamb.

[Brinbe]

Fernis give it up. I said the same things, others have too, they just can't accept it.

Accept what? We show logic, unlike the ones over there in Lillard thread that talks about how Lillard has NO flaws. You're the one that agrees to the NO flaws comment over there. So don't come to us saying we're ridiculous on Lamb.

I'm not going to name names, but what's amusing to me is the double standard that exists in certain parts of this board. I haven't seen any Lamb supporters or whatever they want to call it trashing Lillard, but you have a few Lillard bandwagoners coming from the blind spot straight up saying they hate Lamb and start trashing him. I mean, you have people bring up the weak conference as a means why Lillard scored so much against inferior competition, but when we bring up that Lamb played with two ball hogs they act like Lamb should somehow overcome it. At the end of the day, I'm just happy to add some talent on the Raptors if that's Lillard or Lamb. But just don't come out of nowhere and don't expect the same thing to go back at you. Sorry to go off-topic, just something I had to get off my chest lol

Good post, I totally agree. At the end of the day, I'd be okay with either, especially over someone like Rivers. Think I'd lean Lamb, if only because players with his size/skill are a bit tougher to find and the questions about his motor/interview ability don't concern me.

[Fenris-77]

Where does Lamb rank on your personal draft board right now?

Right after Lillard. Call it 9th, Maybe 10th at worst. That may change as I take a closer look at some of the late lottery guys, but I doubt it. On a different team's draft board I might rank Lamb higher, but the Raps offense is a little too hot-messy for me to be any more excited about Lamb than I am. I think Lamb would be much better served to play in a better structured offense with better offensive options around him. The Raps need to add a guy or two who can really eat up some USG% on solid efficiency, and Lamb just doesn't look like that guy relative to some other guys on the board.

[Garmfay]

For the Pro-Lamb crew, I would also be concerned with Lamb's poor interviews concerning his laid back attitude. Casey doesn't like guys with the laid-back, low motor etc as you have seen with Ed Davis basically was in Casey's doghouse. Don't go crashing the forum when there might be a possibility that BC and crew don't take him.

[fredericklove]

For the Pro-Lamb crew, I would also be concerned with Lamb's poor interviews concerning his laid back attitude. Casey doesn't like guys with the laid-back, low motor etc as you have seen with Ed Davis basically was in Casey's doghouse. Don't go crashing the forum when there might be a possibility that BC and crew don't take him.

Then who do you even like anyways, you even talk crap about Barnes. So I really don't know what your intent is anyways.

[Garmfay]

Fernis give it up. I said the same things, others have too, they just can't accept it.

Accept what? We show logic, unlike the ones over there in Lillard thread that talks about how Lillard has NO flaws. You're the one that agrees to the NO flaws comment over there. So don't come to us saying we're ridiculous on Lamb.

I'm not going to name names, but what's amusing to me is the double standard that exists in certain parts of this board. I haven't seen any Lamb supporters or whatever they want to call it trashing Lillard, but you have a few Lillard bandwagoners coming from the blind spot straight up saying they hate Lamb and start trashing him. I mean, you have people bring up the weak conference as a means why Lillard scored so much against inferior competition, but when we bring up that Lamb played with two ball hogs they act like Lamb should somehow overcome it. At the end of the day, I'm just happy to add some talent on the Raptors if that's Lillard or Lamb. But just don't come out of nowhere and don't expect the same thing to go back at you. Sorry to go off-topic, just something I had to get off my chest lol

First off, I'm not even pro-Lillard. But you basically trashed every other prospect except Lamb at this point. Double standard LOL? PJ3 unskilled, Rivers is a scrub etc

[highness]

So BC doesn't even mention Lamb today and Ryan Wolstat also said this a few days ago:

Ryan Wolstat ‏@WolstatSun

@timpchisholm Nice read. Would be shocked if they take Lamb at 8 people in org. wary for some of reasons you mention.

On to the next prospect.

[Garmfay]

For the Pro-Lamb crew, I would also be concerned with Lamb's poor interviews concerning his laid back attitude. Casey doesn't like guys with the laid-back, low motor etc as you have seen with Ed Davis basically was in Casey's doghouse. Don't go crashing the forum when there might be a possibility that BC and crew don't take him.

Then who do you even like anyways, you even talk crap about Barnes. So I really don't know what your intent is anyways.

I haven't talked **** about Barnes, I haven't talked about him since March Madness when I was still on board to pick Barnes (we don't have much of a shot of getting him)

I would be fine with any of Royce White, PJ3, Rivers, Waiters or Lamb right now.

My intent here is to settle down some of the pro-Lamb crew. As Fernis said, any bad talk about Lamb there is an overreaction and its the same rehased stuff. Where as other prospects get critized ie PJ3 sucks, no skills you don't have people going super defensive about it.

[Undefeated]

First off, I'm not even pro-Lillard. But you basically trashed every other prospect except Lamb at this point. Double standard LOL? PJ3 unskilled, Rivers is a scrub etc

I've trashed every prospect? Go back to the draft thread before you call me out here. I've been watching these prospects since day one along with the other homies, so don't say what you don't know. You have a tendency to put words in other's people mouth because not once did I say Rivers was a scrub.

[Waylon Mercy]

For the Pro-Lamb crew, I would also be concerned with Lamb's poor interviews concerning his laid back attitude. Casey doesn't like guys with the laid-back, low motor etc as you have seen with Ed Davis basically was in Casey's doghouse. Don't go crashing the forum when there might be a possibility that BC and crew don't take him.

Casey also doesn't like guys with swag and a high motor ala James Johnson