The 2012 NBA Draft Thread 2.0: 6th, 11th, and random 2nds.

The Sebastian Express · Post #1 » by **The Sebastian Express** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:10 pm

Continued from previous thread, closed due to reaching 100 pages:

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=1169003

Sabzi · Post #2 » by **Sabzi** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:17 pm

jhern87 wrote:Maybe in your opinion.. But the fact is either they will continue to build and put pieces around LaMarcus or they completely rebuild and start from scratch. I'm sure Olshey isn't going to completely rebuild.. Because the last guy with that idea is now the GM in Charlotte.

That doesn't change the fact that Cho was 100% right. Advocating that we all waste our time with LaMarcus is asinine.

GeraldWallace3 · Post #3 » by **GeraldWallace3** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:23 pm

It's not asinine, in fact, its not even a bad idea. Lamarcus is a legit 23 and 8 guy, still with plenty of potential to become a better rebounder and defender, he is still young and he improves every year. Also, only people who don't pay attention think that he doesn't hit big shots. He has everything you would want your best player to have, except that he might be a bit quiet. But he has even shown improvement in those areas

Wizenheimer · Post #4 » by **Wizenheimer** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:31 pm

nobody know what Cho was advocating but he and PA, and they aren't talking about it. Impossible to say if Cho was right without knowing what he was sayiing

Sabzi · Post #5 » by **Sabzi** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:35 pm

GeraldWallace3 wrote:It's not asinine, in fact, its not even a bad idea. Lamarcus is a legit 23 and 8 guy, still with plenty of potential to become a better rebounder and defender, he is still young and he improves every year. Also, only people who don't pay attention think that he doesn't hit big shots. He has everything you would want your best player to have, except that he might be a bit quiet. But he has even shown improvement in those areas

Raw stats are worthless. LaMarcus is a sub .1 per 48 win-shares player in the post-season. That is the definition of a waste of time.

GeraldWallace3 · Post #6 » by **GeraldWallace3** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:39 pm

I will be honest, I don't truly understand win shares. But I know we didn't have a very good team in the first place, and Lamarcus was playing second fiddle in most of those games(or facing an obscene amount of double teams) so he didn't truly have a chance to do what he could. If Lamarcus could play on a team that had good enough players around that they couldn't double Lamarcus, he would probably average like 25-27 PPG. From what I've seen, he's that good. He is very hard to guard with single coverage

RoyalWun · Post #7 » by **RoyalWun** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:47 pm

1. Do the Cleveland deal for a good chance to get Drummond and clear some extra cap space+roster space.

Cleveland trades: #4 + #24
Portland trades: #6 + #11 + Shawne Williams

2. Trade 24/40/41 to a team that's over the cap and needs to fill their roster while moving up a bit to secure Teague.

Portland trades: #24 + #40 + #41
Orlando trades: #19

3. Draft Drummond with #4 and Teague with #19

Then sign DWill/Dragic/Nash, plus a vet wing or two in FA with the extra cap.

PG: Williams/Dragic/Nash | Marquis Teague | Nolan Smith
SG: Wesley Matthews | Elliot Williams
SF: Nicolas Batum | [SF/PF FREE AGENT] | Luke Babbitt
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge | J.J. Hickson
Ce: Joel Przybilla | Andre Drummond | Kurt Thomas

No point in picking up another SG since [insert starting PG here] plus Teague can probably run together plus Batum can play the 2 as well. Can insert either or both Claver/Freeland.

PDXKnight · Post #8 » by **PDXKnight** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:27 pm

What's bad about 100 pages?

SoHo · Post #9 » by **SoHo** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:33 pm

NBAMAN2006 wrote: I would not be happy with Drummond and Teague at 4/24. Not because I dislike the players, but because I think the value of that trade is aweful. If we could get Drummond at 6, Rivers at 11 and Teague in the low 20's, I would be estatic. My ideal draft, other than ending up with Robinson or Davis.

I agree with this. Most people agree that the top of the draft has three tiers, Anthony Davis is his own, we've got the next 5 guys in a tier, and then everyone else. I don't think the difference between the player you get at 4 and the player you get at 6 is worth sacrificing a lotto pick for a late 1st.

I'm perfectly content for the Blazers to take Drummond or Barnes at 6 (two most likely players available) and I'd be just as excited to take MKG, Beal, or Robinson if they slip. All of these guys have question marks and I just don't see enough of a "can't miss" prospect who is definitely available at 4 to justify trading up.

Comparatively I much prefer the prospects available at 11 versus those available at 24. Lillard (looks like he'll be gone with recent trends), Rivers, Lamb, Zeller, Leonard, or someone that might drop like Sullinger are all guys that project as solid starters within a couple years. At 24 you're looking at a player like Teague (like his game but he's not ready) or Wroten (love the potential but not ready). I'd love to take a flyer on one of those guys, but not if it costs us a shot at someone like Lillard, Sullinger, or Rivers.

The Sebastian Express · Post #10 » by **The Sebastian Express** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:47 pm

Oden2 wrote:What's bad about 100 pages?

It can cause problems with a server overload.

re49gb_2gho32fp · Post #11 » by **re49gb_2gho32fp** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:58 pm

Oden2 wrote:What's bad about 100 pages?

addition, addiction, friction, conviction.

DaVoiceMaster · Post #12 » by **DaVoiceMaster** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:18 am

We've got 2 other threads that are nearing 100 pages, as well. It's almost time to start fresh! I'd like to see Portland acquire more picks in the first round. I would try and trade #40 & #41 for a late first round pick (#25-#30)... Memphis maybe? I would seriously consider the New Orleans deal to get the #10 pick, as well.

Didn't I hear Sactown was unhappy with Evans? What about throwing a pick at them for Evans? Would that get it done? He could be the extra ball handler that everyone keeps saying the Blazers need. Why does ESPN have him listed as a SF? That's just odd.

Post #13 » by **DeBlazerRiddem** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:34 am

Jhern hit it right on the head in the last thread:

No.. Not at all.. Our team doesn't need to completely rebuild and with these two picks they might as well. Both of these guys need a good 2-3 years before they're ready to be starters and that wastes much of LaMarcus's prime.. Is that the message you want to send to your franchise guys?

Stay where you're at (unless there's a low cost move-up and we feel there's a guy we really want where we're trading) and select the BPA at 6 and 11, no matter what the position. Then address needs in FA.

Both Drummond and Teague could be good, but they are BOTH in need of development before they will be that good.

Although if we rebuild, I think getting Drummond, Waiters and Teague would be a fantastic start.

PDXKnight · Post #14 » by **PDXKnight** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:10 am

The Sebastian Express wrote:
Oden2 wrote:What's bad about 100 pages?

It can cause problems with a server overload.

Ah I see. I was thinking it was just an arbitrary number but that actually makes sense.

PDXKnight · Post #15 » by **PDXKnight** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:32 am

So I know I probably undervalue Kyle Lowry but in what world is he worth the number six pick. Houston fans think he's a top 25 player, he's top 75-100 on a good day. I know my initial offer on trades and transactions was unfair, but # 11 for Lowry is a fair offer and its laughable that they have the nerve to call that offensive. I see why they'd turn it down but its far from offensive.

Post #16 » by **DeBlazerRiddem** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:51 am

Oden2 wrote:So I know I probably undervalue Kyle Lowry but in what world is he worth the number six pick. Houston fans think he's a top 25 player, he's top 75-100 on a good day. I know my initial offer on trades and transactions was unfair, but # 11 for Lowry is a fair offer and its laughable that they have the nerve to call that offensive. I see why they'd turn it down but its far from offensive.

I think it is more complicated than that.

Since free agency comes after the draft, if Houston did that trade they would have no starting PG. They would basically be forced to match any offer to Dragic, but since Dragic is unrestricted, he could walk no matter what Houston does.

It's just a risky trade for Houston - I don't think it's as bad value as the fans try to make it seem (fans always overvalue their own players and undervalue other teams draft picks) - but because of other factors, Portland would have make an offer that blows them out of the water for them to take that risk.

Norm2953 · Post #17 » by **Norm2953** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:20 am

It seems most of us would recommend Portland just take whatever player is left amongst
the top 6 and tell those teams who want us to trade both of lottery picks for their pick
to pound sand as Big Suke says.

Now if there is any way to move up 1-2 spots without giving up our second lottery pick,
I'd be all for it. That second lottery player should be a guy who will be in our playing
rotation for a player like Meyers Leonard who is blowing up in workouts might be a
good alternative to Drummond if goes before we pick. I feel we earned that second
lottery pick with a lot of crappy ball down the stretch and it would be stupid to throw
it away for a guy who might be a bust in Drummond.

Wickzki · Post #18 » by **Wickzki** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:03 am

If the Blazers have a target in mind with the #4 pick while getting the #24 pick as well for #6 and #11 I would want to see the Blazers do everything in their power to grab that #10 pick from New Orleans. That would be a very good outcome. Trade up, effectively twice, and get the pick in the 20's that the team has been rumored to want. While I know the need for Okafor is greater than a need for Ariza I'd go for Ariza due to the smaller contract and his ability to play well in the playoffs.

Wizenheimer · Post #19 » by **Wizenheimer** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:21 pm

Wickzki wrote:If the Blazers have a target in mind with the #4 pick while getting the #24 pick as well for #6 and #11 I would want to see the Blazers do everything in their power to grab that #10 pick from New Orleans. That would be a very good outcome. Trade up, effectively twice, and get the pick in the 20's that the team has been rumored to want. While I know the need for Okafor is greater than a need for Ariza I'd go for Ariza due to the smaller contract and his ability to play well in the playoffs.

it appears the Hornets' front office have made a point of saying it will take more then just dumping Okafor to get that 10th pick from them. They want some good asset(s) in return

that makes sense because even if they re-sign Gordon to an extension, they'd still be 15 million below the luxury tax level

Fitz303 · Post #20 » by **Fitz303** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:38 pm

Wizenheimer wrote:
Wickzki wrote:If the Blazers have a target in mind with the #4 pick while getting the #24 pick as well for #6 and #11 I would want to see the Blazers do everything in their power to grab that #10 pick from New Orleans. That would be a very good outcome. Trade up, effectively twice, and get the pick in the 20's that the team has been rumored to want. While I know the need for Okafor is greater than a need for Ariza I'd go for Ariza due to the smaller contract and his ability to play well in the playoffs.

it appears the Hornets' front office have made a point of saying it will take more then just dumping Okafor to get that 10th pick from them. They want some good asset(s) in return

that makes sense because even if they re-sign Gordon to an extension, they'd still be 15 million below the luxury tax level

Not sure if it's enough for NO, but I'd do a Matthews for 10th and Okafor dump

You maintain enough cap flexibility to sign a SG this offseason, are able to draft a PG you need, and pick up a servicable big man. Go after OJ Mayo, or Ray Allen with the left over cap space.

Lillard/ Smith
Mayo/ Williams
Batum/ Q. Miller (24th)
Aldridge/ Hickson
Okafor/ Drummond (4th)