1st rd pick general discussion #2 overall (Poll Added)

[Jaruff]

So now all a bust is a player who isn't very good... Not a player who was expected to be good and failed due to some flaw in their ability/drive/whatever. So Shaq was a bust in his final season, because the production was no longer there? Len Bias is a bust the day after he dies but not the day before? Seems pedantic to me. What's the point of the word bust if it applies to such a huge class of people?

No, not at all.

Shaq is not a bust because his career averages far exceeded the expectations for his draft position. However, Len Bias' career averages are nil. Regardless of tragic circumstance, he's still a bust as he didn't meet or exceed the expectations of his draft slot.

I consider GO a bust because while he performed pretty well, he didn't do it for a long period of time. However, if he can make a comeback within the next year or two and have a solid 6-8 year career, I think he earns the right to not be called a bust. As of today, though, he's a bust. He hasn't lived up to the expectations of being #1 and the point is made even more clear when he's compared to the guy that went #2.

[captaincrunk]

So now all a bust is a player who isn't very good... Not a player who was expected to be good and failed due to some flaw in their ability/drive/whatever. So Shaq was a bust in his final season, because the production was no longer there? Len Bias is a bust the day after he dies but not the day before? Seems pedantic to me. What's the point of the word bust if it applies to such a huge class of people?

No, not at all.

Shaq is not a bust because his career averages far exceeded the expectations for his draft position. However, Len Bias' career averages are nil. Regardless of tragic circumstance, he's still a bust as he didn't meet or exceed the expectations of his draft slot.

I consider GO a bust because while he performed pretty well, he didn't do it for a long period of time. However, if he can make a comeback within the next year or two and have a solid 6-8 year career, I think he earns the right to not be called a bust. As of today, though, he's a bust. He hasn't lived up to the expectations of being #1 and the point is made even more clear when he's compared to the guy that went #2.

With the guy who went #2, Oden would have to be a top 3 center to not be a bust.

For the rest, it's getting off topic I guess.

[Jaruff]

And that's the problem of having drafts. People always compare #1 to #2 and #4 to #5 and etc. Imo, you have to compare #2 this year to the #2's in the past.

Whoever we take, even if he's not as good as #1 or #3, I'm happy as long as he meets or exceeds the historical expectations of #2. And lately, those expectations haven't been too damn high so as long as we can get a decent player, we'll be doing pretty damn well.

[captaincrunk]

And that's the problem of having drafts. People always compare #1 to #2 and #4 to #5 and etc. Imo, you have to compare #2 this year to the #2's in the past.

I don't really get this. Why should we compare Jordan with whoever is selected three this draft? How is that fair to anyone?

Whoever we take, even if he's not as good as #1 or #3, I'm happy as long as he meets or exceeds the historical expectations of #2. And lately, those expectations haven't been too damn high so as long as we can get a decent player, we'll be doing pretty damn well.

I guess I take a different view. I just want us to get the best players we can and to win all the championships forever.

[Eoghan]

NBADraft.net updated their mock.

Have us taking Andre Drummond.

http://www.nbadraft.net/2012mock_draft

That's the first draft to have Drummond going that high, isn't it?

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In regards to all this bust talk, I think it obviously just boils down to semantics. IMO, it's all relative to your draft class and draft slot. I don't consider careers derailed by injury as busts personally, unless the player got injured for being fat and didn't properly rehab or something.

I know Crunk has been at the forefront of many a flame war but from what I've seen recently he's just been answering absurdity with absurdity and pretty tame by usual internet standards so I'd rather you guys not permaban him since he's been one of the few around here lately to agree with me.

[TheKingofSting]

NBADraft.net updated their mock.

Have us taking Andre Drummond.

http://www.nbadraft.net/2012mock_draft

He really seemed to impress Bonnell at media day with the way he explained his "lost year". Maybe Cho has seen and heard all he needs too. I kind of like it, Go Big or Go Home!

Also LOL @ Beal at 7

[Eoghan]

Man, I'm just not seeing this hype on Lillard but then again I was always a better judge of bigs than guards. I just can't help but think that most of it is due to there being so few PGs in this draft this year.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

Drummond's best 5 games against quality opponents:

12/10/7 against Florida State
16/11/1 against St. Johns
20/11/3 against West Virginia
17/14/3 against Syracuse
14/10/3 against Syracuse

Robinson's best 5 games against quality oppenents:

20/12/2 against Georgetown
16/15/1 against Duke
27/14/1 against Baylor
28/12/1 against Missouri
18/17/0 against Kentucky (National Championship game)

neither one really stands out against the other.

Really? They look very different to me. The blocks clearly show a different kind of play and athleticism for Drummond. The points show that Robinson was simply amazing in some games and overall has a huge edge. Rebounds favor Robinson.

Even this small snapshot shows that Robinson is the more polished player and that Drummond is more athletic. From there you start looking at things like passion for the game, mental toughness, defense, and more.

[SWedd523]

^ I still believe that Robinson's block numbers were negatively effected by having the best shot blocker in the country playing beside him. He probably wouldnt have been a huge shot blocker anyway but i'm sure it hurt a little bit

[Rich4114]

Shouldn't we compare Robinson's freshman stats with Drummonds to be completely fair?

We checked your stats T-Rob, you're still not getting drafted #1.

Good to see NBADraft.net having Drummond at #2. He was there for a while before the lottery. Will be interesting to see what others start doing in terms of mocks as the next week or two roll around.

As for the Crunk stuff, I hope you guys don't censor him too much. I agree with a lot of what he says as well and it's not like he's saying violent or vulgar things. I think you guys are over sensitized from the Felton vs Knight days, lulz

[HasheemThabeet]

Robinson's 28-12 game vs Mizzou was easily his best last season. The way he completely took over down the stretch on both ends to complete the comeback was amazing

[James Gatz]

As for the Crunk stuff, I hope you guys don't censor him too much. I agree with some of what he says as well and it's not like he's saying violent or vulgar things.

[Kembastockton]

I am a Bobcats fan. If we pick the janitor who unclogged the most toilets I will welcome him aboard, but when it comes down to what this team really needs toughness, rebounding, a low post presence I got to go T-Rob. Drummond will probably be a good player down the road, but centers who are already better than him will be coming out next summer. I had said Beal for his potential at one time, but I can't take a slightly undersized guard over a slightly undersized rebounding nut just because of potential. T-Rob is still my pick.

[SWedd523]

Shouldn't we compare Robinson's freshman stats with Drummonds to be completely fair?

Well not really fair.

Robinson was a freshman on the #1 ranked team in the country that finished the regular season with a 32-2 record. On a team where Aldrich got 26.8 minutes, Marcus Morris got 24.7 minutes, and Markieff Morris got 17.6 minutes...Robinson got 7.2.

Really wasn't that much of an opportunity to get playing time and I doubt Self would've been willing to upset that dynamic.

Drummond got the most minutes of any big man on a team that failed to meet the lofty expectations on them.


Also, Drummond was a top, extremely hyped recruit that was ranked top 3 depending on where you looked. Robinson was ranked 31 on Rivals and 40 on ESPN.

[Eoghan]

Drummond will probably be a good player down the road, but centers who are already better than him will be coming out next summer.

I kind of disagree with you here. I'm not blown away from Cody Zeller yet but looking forward to seeing him after he's supposedly gotten bigger and better and Noel just does not look like he'd be any better than Drummond at all IMO. Whom else did you have in mind?

[countryboi]

Drummond will probably be a good player down the road, but centers who are already better than him will be coming out next summer.

I kind of disagree with you here. I'm not blown away from Cody Zeller yet but looking forward to seeing him after he's supposedly gotten bigger and better and Noel just does not look like he'd be any better than Drummond at all IMO. Whom else did you have in mind?

you find a player in next years draft with better measurable than drummond and I will be willing to wait til hell freezeth over

[Rich4114]

So Drummond basically stayed in the top tier range. He dropped from definitely the best big man in the draft to maybe the best or 2nd best big man in the draft. That means the hype just cooled down a little bit and he's right where everyone expected him to be.

I don't know if I trust T-Rob considering the system and setting he had his stats in vs Drummond. Two completely different situations. I'm worried T-Rob = Malik Rose. To me, both T-Rob and Drummond have the same risk but Drummond has WAYYYYYY more upside so I'd take the upside.

If the question is his drive and mindset, then I'm even less concerned because he's 18. How many people are fully matured when they're 18? Dwight Howard and Andrew Bynum certainly weren't. No matter who we draft it won't be a quick fix anyway, it'll be a 2-3 year project so I'm willing to take the risk.

[fatlever]

howard and bynum are still immature.

[ball teacher]

T. Robinson is 6'8 and being a tough player in college doesn't mean he'll be a dominant force in the league. He hasn't even had a dominant college career, he was probably the 5th or 6th most important player for Kansas when the twins were there, and this year he had a breakout year when the talent level wasn't as strong.

I actually think the big white kid from Indiana has more talent and promise than Robinson on the pro level. There are at least 5 players I'd take over Robinson. I'd take Barnes, Rivers, Drummond, Davis, Sullinger, the Hoosier I mentioned earlier, maybe even one of the two big named Baylor players. I guess the point is, I'm not sold on Robinson at all and for a 6'8 PF in todays game I dont see why he's so hyped up.

[TheKingofSting]

Drummond will probably be a good player down the road, but centers who are already better than him will be coming out next summer.

I kind of disagree with you here. I'm not blown away from Cody Zeller yet but looking forward to seeing him after he's supposedly gotten bigger and better and Noel just does not look like he'd be any better than Drummond at all IMO. Whom else did you have in mind?

you find a player in next years draft with better measurable than drummond and I will be willing to wait til hell freezeth over

Exactly freak athlete Center's don't grow on trees. Even if his offense is a bit behind we would have two Dwight's on defense. That is still exciting