board's kinda dead, let's talk about marshon

[deepblueday]

i think itd be interesting to see everyones overall take on marshon after his first season, both on his play last year and his career prospects going forward.

for me, i genuinely think he's a tough player to evaluate at this point. there was a lot of inconsistency on both ends, but he showed enough that i cant write him off as nothing more than a nick young-style scorer off the bench just yet. he had big rebounding games, he made passes that you generally dont see tunnel vision guys even look for, he played decent d on more than a few occasions, i dunno, theres just something about his game that makes me think he could put it together and be more. and for a while there, he was legitimately GREAT isolation scorer, like, shockingly good. the absurdly advanced footwork, his shot off the dribble, his touch on floaters and double pump attempts... those are things that are very difficult to teach. all that said, he struggled to stay in front of some very mediocre players, he gambled a ton, he gave up running hte floor about halfway through the year, his shot kind of went to ****, he never stopped taking difficult, contested shots, and he showed no real offensive game without the ball.

itd be cool to know what hes focusing on over the summer... i hope the whole point guard thing at the end of the year was purely out of necessity and our staff is not wasting any of his time developing those skills. all the time in the gym should be spent on a catch and shoot game, defensive footwork, and extensive weight training. assuming hes still a net, itll at least be fun to watch him destroy summer league competition

[N Ireland Nets]

He needs to learn to play off the ball and defend. He was a complete turnstyle on defence, constantly costing us points left right and centre.

Hes a ball stopper who can score on ISO's but not at a high or effcient enough clip to justify running ISO's for him. I feel he's close to his peek now and there isn't going to be must growth outside his defence.

If I was Billy King i'd trade Brooks on draft night along with Morrow, Petro and the Houston pick to get a 1st rounder because Brooks value is at its highest point right now and we should sell high. With him being 23 (same age as Eric Gordon and older than James Harden) he just isn't going to suddenly turn into a stud.

Trade him draft night and bring back some value, then move on. Could look to trade Morrow, Petro & $3m for a pick, then package Brooks & Houston pick for another 1st rounder or in a trade for a vet.

If Morrow, Brooks and Petro are on our roster past the draft we're screwed and I will hunt Bill King down and do this...

[deepblueday]

well that's the thing, if he learns to play off the ball and defend, he's very likely better than any player drafted after #12 overall will ever be.

and how exactly will this team score without marshon or morrow on the roster and gerald wallace playing huge minutes at the 3? assuming we clear cap in one of those potential deals, heres your list of FA 2 guards:

Eric Gordon, New Orleans Hornets – $3.8 million – Restricted ($5.1 million Qualifying Offer)
O.J. Mayo, Memphis Grizzlies – $5.6 million – Restricted ($7.4 million Qualifying Offer)
Ray Allen, Boston Celtics – $10.0 million – Unrestricted
Landry Fields, New York Knicks – $0.8 million – Unrestricted*
Carlos Delfino, Milwaukee Bucks – $3.5 million – Unrestricted
Nick Young, L.A. Clippers – $3.7 million – Unrestricted
Jamal Crawford, Portland Trail Blazers – $5.0 million – Player Option ($5.2 million)
Louis Williams, Philadelphia 76ers – $5.2 million – Early Termination Option ($5.4 million)
J.R Smith, New York Knicks – $1.4 million – Player Option ($2.6 million)
Mickael Pietrus, Boston Celtics – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
Courtney Lee, Houston Rockets – $2.2 million – Restricted ($3.2 million Qualifying Offer)
Rudy Fernandez, Denver Nuggets – $2.2 million – Restricted ($3.2 million Qualifying Offer)
DeShawn Stevenson, Brooklyn Nets – $2.5 million – Unrestricted
Damion James, Brooklyn Nets – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
C.J. Miles, Utah Jazz – $3.7 million – Unrestricted
Shannon Brown, Phoenix Suns – $3.5 million – Unrestricted
Josh Howard, Utah Jazz – $2.2 million – Unrestricted
Gerald Green, Brooklyn Nets – $0.4 million – Unrestricted
Terrence Williams, Sacramento Kings – $2.4 million – Unrestricted
Jodie Meeks, Philadelphia 76ers – $0.9 million – Unrestricted*
Marco Belinelli, New Orleans Hornets – $3.4 million – Unrestricted
James Anderson, San Antonio Spurs – $1.5 million – Unrestricted
Matt Carroll, Charlotte Bobcats – $3.9 million – Early Termination Option ($3.5 million)
Brandon Rush, Golden State Warriors – $3.0 million – Restricted ($4.1 million Qualifying Offer)
Alonzo Gee, Cleveland Cavaliers – $0.9 million – Unrestricted*
Danny Green, San Antonio Spurs – $0.9 million – Unrestricted*
Tracy McGrady, Atlanta Hawks – $1.3 million – Unrestricted
Jerry Stackhouse, Atlanta Hawks – $1.3 million – Unrestricted
Willie Green, Atlanta Hawks – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
Jason Kapono, Cleveland Cavaliers – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
Marquis Daniels, Boston Celtics – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
Sasha Pavlovic, Boston Celtics – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
Cory Higgins, Charlotte Bobcats – $0.5 million – Unrestricted*
Anthony Parker, Cleveland Cavaliers – $2.3 million – Unrestricted
Keith Bogans, Brooklyn Nets – $0.8 million – Unrestricted
Michael Redd, Phoenix Suns – $1.3 million – Unrestricted
Mo Evans, Washington Wizards – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
Kelenna Azubuike, Dallas Mavericks – $0.4 million – Unrestricted
Bobby Simmons, L.A. Clippers – $0.5 million – Unrestricted
Morris Almond, Washington Wizards – $0.1 million – Unrestricted
Alan Anderson, Toronto Raptors – $0.2 million – Unrestricted
Xavier Silas, Philadelphia 76ers – $0.1 million – Unrestricted*
Cartier Martin, Washington Wizards – $0.1 million – Unrestricted
Von Wafer, Orlando Magic – $1.0 million – Unrestricted

one young superstar we have no shot at, one old star we probably have no shot at whose on his last legs, presents the same problems defensively, and can't earn minutes over avery bradley, and then a bunch of guys on the same tier as the two shooting guards currently on our roster. and they'll cost us more money.

so were drafting a 2 hopefully and relying on him to play huge minutes? how high up do you think we can get on these potential deals? ross, beal, and lamb will almost certinaly be long gone by the time our packages are getting us into the first.

heres a revelation, marshon and morrow at the 2 are not the reason this team lost games (or will lose games). thats a cheap, serviceable rotation with a young guy who should improve. back up point, starting and backup 3 (often filled by marshon or morrow), starting and backup 4, and starting and backup 5 are what **** devastated us for most of last year. thats not to say im against dealing one or both, obviously we need to fill those spots... moves for vets, up and coming established players, a bigger move for a borderline star, even if ross or lamb drops and we can somehow get into the late lotto, sure, go for it, throw marshon in the mix, hes clearly not some untouchable prospect and were in win now mode, but the idea that we should "sell high" for whatever first we can get because hes not as good as two superstar level players at the same age is silly. you think the guys we bring in will be?

[N Ireland Nets]

well that's the thing, if he learns to play off the ball and defend, he's very likely better than any player drafted after #12 overall will ever be.

and how exactly will this team score without marshon or morrow on the roster and gerald wallace playing huge minutes at the 3? assuming we clear cap in one of those potential deals, heres your list of FA 2 guards:

Eric Gordon, New Orleans Hornets – $3.8 million – Restricted ($5.1 million Qualifying Offer)
O.J. Mayo, Memphis Grizzlies – $5.6 million – Restricted ($7.4 million Qualifying Offer)
Ray Allen, Boston Celtics – $10.0 million – Unrestricted
Landry Fields, New York Knicks – $0.8 million – Unrestricted*
Carlos Delfino, Milwaukee Bucks – $3.5 million – Unrestricted
Nick Young, L.A. Clippers – $3.7 million – Unrestricted
Jamal Crawford, Portland Trail Blazers – $5.0 million – Player Option ($5.2 million)
Louis Williams, Philadelphia 76ers – $5.2 million – Early Termination Option ($5.4 million)
J.R Smith, New York Knicks – $1.4 million – Player Option ($2.6 million)
Mickael Pietrus, Boston Celtics – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
Courtney Lee, Houston Rockets – $2.2 million – Restricted ($3.2 million Qualifying Offer)
Rudy Fernandez, Denver Nuggets – $2.2 million – Restricted ($3.2 million Qualifying Offer)
DeShawn Stevenson, Brooklyn Nets – $2.5 million – Unrestricted
Damion James, Brooklyn Nets – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
C.J. Miles, Utah Jazz – $3.7 million – Unrestricted
Shannon Brown, Phoenix Suns – $3.5 million – Unrestricted
Josh Howard, Utah Jazz – $2.2 million – Unrestricted
Gerald Green, Brooklyn Nets – $0.4 million – Unrestricted
Terrence Williams, Sacramento Kings – $2.4 million – Unrestricted
Jodie Meeks, Philadelphia 76ers – $0.9 million – Unrestricted*
Marco Belinelli, New Orleans Hornets – $3.4 million – Unrestricted
James Anderson, San Antonio Spurs – $1.5 million – Unrestricted
Matt Carroll, Charlotte Bobcats – $3.9 million – Early Termination Option ($3.5 million)
Brandon Rush, Golden State Warriors – $3.0 million – Restricted ($4.1 million Qualifying Offer)
Alonzo Gee, Cleveland Cavaliers – $0.9 million – Unrestricted*
Danny Green, San Antonio Spurs – $0.9 million – Unrestricted*
Tracy McGrady, Atlanta Hawks – $1.3 million – Unrestricted
Jerry Stackhouse, Atlanta Hawks – $1.3 million – Unrestricted
Willie Green, Atlanta Hawks – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
Jason Kapono, Cleveland Cavaliers – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
Marquis Daniels, Boston Celtics – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
Sasha Pavlovic, Boston Celtics – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
Cory Higgins, Charlotte Bobcats – $0.5 million – Unrestricted*
Anthony Parker, Cleveland Cavaliers – $2.3 million – Unrestricted
Keith Bogans, Brooklyn Nets – $0.8 million – Unrestricted
Michael Redd, Phoenix Suns – $1.3 million – Unrestricted
Mo Evans, Washington Wizards – $1.2 million – Unrestricted
Kelenna Azubuike, Dallas Mavericks – $0.4 million – Unrestricted
Bobby Simmons, L.A. Clippers – $0.5 million – Unrestricted
Morris Almond, Washington Wizards – $0.1 million – Unrestricted
Alan Anderson, Toronto Raptors – $0.2 million – Unrestricted
Xavier Silas, Philadelphia 76ers – $0.1 million – Unrestricted*
Cartier Martin, Washington Wizards – $0.1 million – Unrestricted
Von Wafer, Orlando Magic – $1.0 million – Unrestricted

one young superstar we have no shot at, one old star we probably have no shot at whose on his last legs, presents the same problems defensively, and can't earn minutes over avery bradley, and then a bunch of guys on the same tier as the two shooting guards currently on our roster. and they'll cost us more money.

so were drafting a 2 hopefully and relying on him to play huge minutes? how high up do you think we can get on these potential deals? ross, beal, and lamb will almost certinaly be long gone by the time our packages are getting us into the first.

heres a revelation, marshon and morrow at the 2 are not the reason this team lost games (or will lose games). thats a cheap, serviceable rotation with a young guy who should improve. back up point, starting and backup 3 (often filled by marshon or morrow), starting and backup 4, and starting and backup 5 are what **** devastated us for most of last year. thats not to say im against dealing one or both, obviously we need to fill those spots... moves for vets, up and coming established players, a bigger move for a borderline star, even if ross or lamb drops and we can somehow get into the late lotto, sure, go for it, throw marshon in the mix, hes clearly not some untouchable prospect and were in win now mode, but the idea that we should "sell high" for whatever first we can get because hes not as good as two superstar level players at the same age is silly. you think the guys we bring in will be?

Your looking at it the wrong way in my opinion. The way I see it is if Brooks, Morrow & Petro are on the roster it means we aren't going to be anywhere near contending and therefore a treadmill team.

Your also thinking the cap room is to sign free agents when it is a very good asset in possible trades for the future. Lets say we clear cap by trading Morrow, Petro & $3million for a late round 1st. We'd have $8m more cap room with another asset in a pick to move for a vet player. You could then look to flip the space, Brooks, Houston pick, late 1st for another good player who will contribute to winning and not have to wait on Brooks developing a game.

We're here to win now, we're going to make trades on draft night so I wouldn't get to attached to Brooks. Players like Martin, Iggy, Gay, Smith etc are all available and in the current financial market and new CBA owners are starting to realise they can't afford to be anywhere near lux tax zone. Therefore we're in a position to take advantage of the situations other teams find themselves in to bring in experienced players who are available through trade.

I think we'll see a few moves we never saw coming in the next month or so, I'm just hoping it's a good surprise instead of a Wallace surprise.

The only free agents we are reported to be checking out are KG, IIyasova, Allen, Kidd, AK47, Green, Krstic and Teletovic. I believe we will use our cap on free agent signings then look to make further splashes using any picks we picked up, along with further picks & any asset like Brooks, Farmar (if he opts in) to bring in players to build a team around Williams, Wallace & Lopez.

Also Elton Brand will be available on waivers to pick up because he's going to be amnestied it seems and is someone I wouldn't look to pick up on a fair deal, plus he expires next off season.

[PetroNet]

He is a chucker who doesnt shoot it great from 3 and doesnt really compete on defense. At what, 23 or 24 years old I really dont see him getting all that much better. He is a very skilled guy, but he really doesnt seem to be very effective unless the ball is in his hands and i think its very difficult to play good offense with guys like that unless you only bring them in with a second unit looking for them to be gunners.

he seems to be a good kid, if he had a bit more strength and athleticism he might go places.... but being a 14-16ppg scorer on a bad team doesnt really do much for me.

I'd have no issues with him being moved in a deal for a veteran player or a future/current first round pick

[PetroNet]

well that's the thing, if he learns to play off the ball and defend, he's very likely better than any player drafted after #12 overall will ever be.

those are 2 things you rarely see happen, and to bank on it happening at 23 years old or whatever is beyond risky.

and how exactly will this team score without marshon or morrow on the roster and gerald wallace playing huge minutes at the 3? assuming we clear cap in one of those potential deals, heres your list of FA 2 guards:

well, for one, like 75% of that list can score as well or more efficiently then brooks and give you other things in addition to it. secondly, if brooks werent here, we'd have a first round pick to use on a wing player.

[deepblueday]

Your looking at it the wrong way in my opinion. The way I see it is if Brooks, Morrow & Petro are on the roster it means we aren't going to be anywhere near contending and therefore a treadmill team.

well, youre quite right that we wont be contenders, there are no conceivable moves we can make short of acquiring dwight that will make us contenders, that ship has sailed. were fighting to be good, not great. and morrow and marshon can play the two for a good team.

Your also thinking the cap room is to sign free agents when it is a very good asset in possible trades for the future. Lets say we clear cap by trading Morrow, Petro & $3million for a late round 1st. We'd have $8m more cap room with another asset in a pick to move for a vet player. You could then look to flip the space, Brooks, Houston pick, late 1st for another good player who will contribute to winning and not have to wait on Brooks developing a game.

We're here to win now, we're going to make trades on draft night so I wouldn't get to attached to Brooks. Players like Martin, Iggy, Gay, Smith etc are all available and in the current financial market and new CBA owners are starting to realise they can't afford to be anywhere near lux tax zone. Therefore we're in a position to take advantage of the situations other teams find themselves in to bring in experienced players who are available through trade.

martin, iggy, gay, smith? atlanta wont trade smith for nothing (which is what we have), iggy and gay we probably already inquired about at the deadline with our pick and were shut down, and who the **** would want kevin martin?

this is just fantasy to me. were parlaying cash and **** into multiple firsts and numerous, unnamed talented veteran players are we? and even with these big contract guys were acquiring for almost nothing, were still gonna ahve the space to pay deron, wallace, and brook? again keep in mind our high lottery pick netted us gerald wallace. we have virtually no assets, morrow, brooks, petro, a future top 14 protected pick, jordan farmar (if he takes his option), and cash. we'll wait and see how far that takes us. king has already committed to a course, it might involve acquiring a first for cash and a minor player, convincing a team to take on morrow and petro for some extra cap space, but it almost certainly involves paying deron, wallace, and brook, and signing 2 or 3 FAs. the core of our team will remain largely the same.

[deepblueday]

well, for one, like 75% of that list can score as well or more efficiently then brooks and give you other things in addition to it. secondly, if brooks werent here, we'd have a first round pick to use on a wing player.

yeah.... no.

[N Ireland Nets]

Deepblueday, your missing the point, I wasn't saying those are the players were going after just that it won't just be free agents only and trades will be made with players or picks we acquire to improve the team. It'll probably be for players we didn't think of, which could be good or bad going by King's record.

The core of our team will change in July and I believe the only players coming to Brooklyn who were in Jersey are Lopez, Wallace, Williams & Green. Maybe a couple more but our roster will be completely different.

Ill say it again, if Morrow, Brooks & Petro are on the roster then we are going to be a treadmill team just making the 7/8th seed at the very best.

[deepblueday]

Deepblueday, your missing the point, I wasn't saying those are the players were going after just that it won't just be free agents only and trades will be made with players or picks we acquire to improve the team. It'll probably be for players we didn't think of, which could be good or bad going by King's record.

the point youre making isnt complex, im pointing out that even if you want to talk about our future in the abstract, we are not a team with numerous assets and many potential avenues open to us. we can make reasonable predictions re the kind of players were capable of acquiring based on the assets we currently hold. any good players that hit the market we probably won't be the only bidder for, and our packages don't beat much.

we need to hope we can resign the guys we have and stay healthy, and maybe make a few small moves to let us sign an extra player in FA. ill be thrilled if king swings a several big time deals for significant players, but i cant envision it at this point

[PetroNet]

well, for one, like 75% of that list can score as well or more efficiently then brooks and give you other things in addition to it. secondly, if brooks werent here, we'd have a first round pick to use on a wing player.

yeah.... no.

they absolutely can, and almost all of them have. Brooks simply isnt anything special... in fact, what he does(i.e. score with the ball in his hands from the 2 position at an ok rate) is probably the easiest thing in the league to find. guys like that are a dime a dozen. for every brooks there is a lou williams or nick young or smith or whomever.

plus he has little upside.

[PetroNet]

we need to hope we can resign the guys we have and stay healthy, and maybe make a few small moves to let us sign an extra player in FA. ill be thrilled if king swings a several big time deals for significant players, but i cant envision it at this point

i dont see why we'd want to bring back a team that won 22 games. especially the guys who contributed more the losing then the winning.

Other then Dwill, wallace, lopez, and green and sheldon i cant see anyone id want back, other the maybe morrow, but even with him he'd probably be better off being traded given his contract being attractive to other teams.

[BlueDawn]

I liked him for a #25. He has ways to go.

[Born_Ready]

I'm a fan-- and for the value where he was picked I thought he did a serviceable job as a rook.

I tend to believe his ceiling is a little higher than most give him credit for. He will get better on the defensive side as he matures. He will also become a better shooter from deep if he works at it. It appears that he isn't lazy and wants to be an above average/elite player-- so maybe with a little discipline and determination he will have a successful NBA career.

Looking for a long term solution as a whole for the NETS origination-- I think it behooves the franchise to look for a different option than Morrow (that's if they can some how keep Marshon on the roster). Marshon has a ways to go before being a star in this league-- but again he is a serviceable option-- an probably the best option this team is going to land currently. That's why I am not to keen on the idea to get rid of him this early.

If I were the "speculating" type I would hope Billy King learns from his prior mistakes and do not make any more errors that will set the team back even farther. Sadly-- I am convinced that Deron will leave and I think a star (preferably a little younger than Nash) will need to be brought in to help coast the team a long in tough spots. We can expect tough spots if Deron--Wallace-- and Green depart. The scoring will falter at a rapid rate if said scenario takes place. Again-- that's why I believe it is the teams best interest to keep a rising talent like Marshon around.

My dream (pipe) would be sign and trade Deron to Boston for Rondo at whatever cost. If not figure out a way to get Kyle Lowery. May be even take a long look at Jameer Nelson for PG. Since Deron will get to choose where he wants to sign and trade this is probably unlikely--but I would be fine with it.

Look to bring in Antwan Jaminson for cheap. Send Anthony Morrow to the Clippers for Nick Young and cash. If Wallace escapes Brooklyn because Deron split- go ahead and pay the $ for Ersan Ilyasova--because bringing back Ryan Anderson will be to expensive.

Your starting five could look a lot different:

C- Lopez
PF- Jaminson/Humprhies/
SF- Ilysova/
SG- Young/Brooks
PG- Rondo/Lowery/Nelson/Farmar

Go ahead rip away..............

[vincecarter4pres]

Horribly inefficient chucker who's a ball stopper, plays awful defense, bad BBIQ, limited average at best athleticism, already old and almost definitely near his ceiling with a bunch of bad traits that will be incredibly hard to break, especially to break all of them in a short period.

Sell high, sell now.

I'm convinced that's what they're going to do anyway, all the interviews, reading between the lines it's blatantly obvious they're looking to move him for a pick, probably to dump Petro in the deal.

Players like him are a dime a dozen. He did nothing impressive outside a literal 3 or 4 week run when he was good but still not great.

His style is not conducive to winning and as Ireland and others have said he's almost exclusively an iso ball in hands player who can't sniff the level of play necessary to command that usage rate and halting of the offense.

There are still sure to be mid to late 1st round teams that can't get past their love for him, many a GM and FO are awful talent evaluators and fall in love with their own genius too often.

Trade, trade, trade!

[VCRJKidd15]

I'm not gonna write an essay like 99% of the posts itt but i'll say I liked him enough for me not wanting him to be traded. He has a good future he was just a rookie it's funny seeing people put him down about the negative things he does as if he can't improve

[vincecarter4pres]

What exactly does he do positive to build on?

Hits hard shots a player of his skill level should never attempt?

Or make some decent passes after he's ball stopped the offense to a halt holding it at the top and then awkwardly dribbling around for 7 seconds?

[PetroNet]

I'm not gonna write an essay like 99% of the posts itt but i'll say I liked him enough for me not wanting him to be traded. He has a good future he was just a rookie it's funny seeing people put him down about the negative things he does as if he can't improve

thats the thing... its not that he needs to improve... the flaws in his game arent things that he does poorly, so much that they arent things that are in his game. you dont really improve on being a player who scores without the ball when you are an iso player. he doesnt need to just "work on" his off the ball game, he would need to invent one.

the real issue is, he just doesnt have alot of tangble things that would allow him to become anything more then a below average wing player who should really be a bench specialist. he isnt really big or strong or athletic or high energy. he is just a really skilled mid range shot maker. beyond that, he really doesnt give much, or have much to work with to develope anything... especially at 24

[vincecarter4pres]

John Salmons...

[Jersey Generals]

If you can trade him for a first, along with Petro, you do it. I can name about five or six guys from 15-30 that would have more potential then him.