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Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Jeremy Lamb (HOU)

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If still on the Board by our pick what are the chanches we draft him?

100%
50
38%
90%
16
12%
80%
20
15%
70%
11
8%
60%
2
2%
50%
10
8%
40%
7
5%
30%
8
6%
20%
0
No votes
10%
7
5%
 
Total votes: 131

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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Jeremy Lamb 

Post#781 » by CoachHarry » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:01 am

Anatomize wrote:One reason DeMar and Lamb don't compliment eachother is because offensively their top skill is running off screens. It's kind of similar to two bigs working out of the elbow/block area (like Bosh-Jermaine experiment, or Z-Bo/Marc-Gasol). You can see how M. Gasol's numbers are hurt when Randolph is on the floor/healthy compared to when he gets to be the main post up option. Pau Gasol on the other hand can still get decent stats being a PF option next to Bynum because he can shoot mid range and Bynum doesn't operate at the elbow areas.

Having redundant players offensively can be a problem, this will be the case with DeMar and Lamb; which may force Lamb to become more of a spot up/corner guy and less of a 2nd option in the offense. If DeMar plays more off-ball than Lamb (receiving less touches), that means he would have to be in the 3 point spots more often, which is a problem considering he cant shoot 3's well, this will relegate Lamb to a 3rd scorer option. This is why I don't see the two of them being a great fit offensively. DeMar is going to have to severely improve his ball handling/penetration/passing in order for them to work well together.

Otherwise, the only way it will work is if Lamb slides in as a #2 ball handling/scoring option and sets up DeMar for mid range looks and off-ball movement. This of course is coupled with the fact that we still need a penetrating guard that can set up our wings.


You make some good points, but I think some of your player evaluations are slightly off. For example Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum actually don't work that well together, because they both operate at their best on the low block - neither of them are great mid-range shooters, however Pau is passable. Pau played his best basketball for the lakers with Lamar, when he was in the low-post and Lamar was up around the elbow, and he struggled this year when he was forced to work mainly off the mid-range jumper, and Drew got all the low block touches. Z-Bo and Marc Gasol however do compliment each other, because Z-Bo is very comfortable in the mid-range as a shooter, as is Marc - more so than his brother in fact. Both of these big man pairings have players that are most comfortable on the block, but the second group have a much stronger ability to play off the ball.

My point here being just because two players are comfortable doing the same thing doesn't mean they don't compliment each other. Kind of like if you compare Lebron James and D-wade and Paul Pierce and Ray Allen (a couple years ago). Both groups can create their own shot from the wing on their own, but the second group also has at least one player with a strong ability to catch and shoot. While I don't think Demar and Lamb is a great solution long-term, I believe they could be an adequate pairing - with Demar playing a more Paul Pierce type role (posting up and working out of the high elbow area) and Lamb (catching at the three pointline and breaking his man down from there) assuming a bit more of an (early) Ray Allen role.

I guess I agree with your assessment of Demar at the end of your post, he needs to become a better ball handler/passer/scoring option - but I don't think that has anything to do with him being successful with Lamb so much as just becoming a successful NBA player.
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Jeremy Lamb 

Post#782 » by S.W.A.N » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:36 am

I wouldn't be worried about drafting a player like lamb due to concerns about his ability to co-exist with Derozan on offense.

Likely scenario if lamb were to be drafted would be he comes off the bench as sixth man as rookie while Derozan maintains starting sg roll.

During the 5-10 mins that they might play togeather during a game (raps going small) there is more than enough space on the wings for both to operate. Lamb's three point ability would help spread the floor giving Derozan more space to operate.

Down the road if Lamb were to prove he star player its more likely that Derozan moves to 6th man roll then SF unless he becomes much stronger and shows significant improvement as rebounder. Again in that scenario they only have limited minutes togeather in which they share space.

Having a 6th man that can light it up and keep the offense clicking is huge, as Harden has shown and recently the heat using Bosh off the bench for firepower shows the value of having dynamic offensive player coming off the bench.
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Jeremy Lamb 

Post#783 » by Kreamy » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:48 am

Every draft a player gets projected to go high and ends up dropping like a rock. Lamb will be that player this year.
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Jeremy Lamb 

Post#784 » by TheProfessor » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:19 am

If debrick and Lamb cannot play together, then you trade Debrick or heck trade him this offseason, see if the things are interested in a DD+ED for Reke swap. A calderon/Lamb/reke/bargs/val lineup gives spacing (Lamb, caldy, Bargs), athletism and length (Reke, Lamb), 2 play makers (reke, bargs), a potential defensive anchor in VAL.
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Jeremy Lamb 

Post#785 » by DreamTeam09 » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:25 am

I thought the whole reason loved lamb during the college yr was how he was the opposite of Demar. He can create and has yo yo handles and hits the 3. Now they can't play together because they're off ball players. Wow I'm calling out the flip flopping. How about we reserve judgement for just a lil while longer...
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Jeremy Lamb 

Post#786 » by bonjovi0308 » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:45 am

If somehow lamb slips...would you trade Derozan for a pick so we can get Lamb? Personally I think its quite tempting. A SG who can actually shoot, and our cap can have some relieve.
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Jeremy Lamb 

Post#787 » by BillyGM » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:55 am

The reason why we should draft him is because SG's in league getting old I see no other reason I feel ashamed of his work ethics.
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Jeremy Lamb 

Post#788 » by fredericklove » Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:35 pm

BillyGM wrote:The reason why we should draft him is because SG's in league getting old I see no other reason I feel ashamed of his work ethics.


You feel ashamed of his work ethics? He wasn't top recruit coming into college, worked hard, improved his game and got his way up to the lottery status. If anything, its his work ethics that got him to where he is today.

He reportedly has a strong work ethic, which is important because he needs to improve his range in order to reach his full potential.

http://dimemag.com/2012/06/the-top-10-s ... nba-draft/
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Jeremy Lamb 

Post#789 » by fredericklove » Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:41 pm

bonjovi0308 wrote:If somehow lamb slips...would you trade Derozan for a pick so we can get Lamb? Personally I think its quite tempting. A SG who can actually shoot, and our cap can have some relieve.


I don't think Demar's value is good enough for any lottery pick trade (cos even if Lamb slips, he still won't drop out of the lottery).
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Jeremy Lamb 

Post#790 » by Double Helix » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:25 pm

Jeremy Lamb came out of the athletic testing today looking very good, in my opinion.

38 inch vert

11'8 max vert reach means that his fingers get as high as a prime Andre Iguodala, Luol Deng, MKG, and within an inch of Demar Derozan, Terrence Williams, Demarcus Cousins, Blake Griffin, James Harden, James Johnson, Harrison Barnes, Chris Kaman, Nick Young,

Agility tests similar to names like Brad Beal, Nick Young, Klay Thompson, Kirk Hinrich, Ty Lawson, Jameer Nelson. And considerably better in the agility test than names like OJ Mayo, Evan Turner, Jeff Teague, Stephen Curry, Iman Shumpert

Speed wise he's again in Gilbert Arenas, Michael Beasley, Nick Young territory which makes him faster than Evan Turner, Brandon Roy, Marcus Thornton, Stephen Curry, Blake Griffin, and only a fraction of a second slower than Josh Smith, Klay Thompson, Randy Foye or Johnny Flynn.

The easy comparison unfortunately now is Nick Young. He shares a lot of similarities to him size-wize and athletically and even looks a little bit like him. Nick seems to have plateaued as a prospect sooner (he plateaued his third year at USC) whereas the hope with Lamb is that as a late bloomer he still has more to show.
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Jeremy Lamb 

Post#791 » by Basketball_Jones » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:28 pm

Nick Young isn't a bad comparison. Both seem like super athletic, thin guys that settle on the perimeter a little too much. My hope is Lamb is just more versatile in terms of passing, ball handling, rebounding, etc. I don't have much hope in him as a defender though, he really looks lazy out there on defense.
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Jeremy Lamb 

Post#792 » by Double Helix » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:36 pm

The surface-level similarities between Lamb and Nick Young are starting to become a little scary actually. I think most people saw the comparison visually from afar when watching Lamb because of the mini fro and the lankiness but get this:

Fairly similar size and build
Similar vert and within 1 inch of each other in terms of max vert reach
Same speed tests
Similar agility scores

The DraftExpress comparison to Nick Young was Jamal Crawford. Jeremy Lamb himself has mentioned the same comparison of Crawford to himself.

These things don't excite me. They did scare me a little until I rationalized their differences as Lamb having a little more polish around the net with his floaters and mid-range game and a slightly better handle. I also think the fact that Young entered the league at age 22 and seemingly plateued in college vs Lamb only turned 20 last month while being widely considered a lottery pick speaks to the differences pro scouts believe exist. Lamb is very young for a sophmore and was a very late bloomer. It's conceivable that he has a substantial amount of growth yet and that he's already approached or perhaps even surpassed Nick Young's level as a player only a month past his 20th birthday.
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Jeremy Lamb 

Post#793 » by JN » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:02 pm

The team just can't allow fit with Demar be a factor at all in who to choose.

I'm not saying fit should not be cosnidered with certain players, but not with a player who has limitations like Demar.
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Jeremy Lamb 

Post#794 » by fredericklove » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:06 pm

I hope we're just talking about the physical feat comparison of him and Nick Young and not their game comparison, right? If not, then I have to say their game is totally different. Nick Young displays ball-hogging style where he just wants to shoot every chance he gets, but Lamb isn't a ballhog or trying to shoot every chance he gets. He's more of a team player, he'll look at the situation, see if he's available to make shots, if not, swing the ball around. But Nick Young hardly does that. His selfishness and jack up shots after shots regardless hes hot or cold, seriously killing the offensive flow and it is noticeably seen from Wizards.

To be honest, when Lamb says his comparison to Crawford he didn't really address a whole lot about the similarity, all he said was this: " A lot of people said Ray Allen, others say Richard Hamilton. I see myself as Jamaal Crawford, the 1, or 2 steps dribble and pullup" So he's just addressing to that Crawford's iso pull-up move. He mentioned Ray or Rich, he probably wants to be humble about his comparison and not get too cocky about the praise of the Ray/Rich comparison.
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Jeremy Lamb 

Post#795 » by I_Like_Dirt » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:22 pm

Not that I'd necessarily advocate drafting Lamb, but to suggest that he won't be a good fit with Derozan and therefore shouldn't be taken is an awful train of logic. Ultimately, to that line of thinking I have two questions:

(1) Who, exactly, is a good fit alongside Derozan? It's a tougher question to answer than you'd think.

and if you do come up with an answer to that 1st question

(2) Is there another swingman out there for whom Derozan is a good fit? How many SGs or SFs are really looking for a partner who can't dribble, pass, shoot or defend, but still need to take lots of shots, to open their game up?

Ultimately, if Derozan, without massively overhauling his game, is the guy you're trying to build around, there are no good fits.
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Jeremy Lamb 

Post#796 » by fredericklove » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:30 pm

No no, several pages ago I was the one who raises about the Demar-Lamb question once Lamb is drafted by Raptors then other posters analyzed the situation. None of us were saying we shouldn't draft him because he won't fit well w/ Demar. We're only analyzing what its going to be like when both of them are on the same court together.
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Jeremy Lamb 

Post#797 » by HolyMage110 » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:12 pm

seems like BC is not sold on lamb
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Jeremy Lamb 

Post#798 » by hankscorpioLA » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:22 pm

If Lillard is off the board, then Lamb is my guy.
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Jeremy Lamb 

Post#799 » by Dr Positivity » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:02 pm

HolyMage110 wrote:seems like BC is not sold on lamb


Yeah.. this is either the biggest smoke screen ever or we don't want sh*t to do with Lamb...
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Jeremy Lamb 

Post#800 » by I_Like_Dirt » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:20 pm

fredericklove wrote:No no, several pages ago I was the one who raises about the Demar-Lamb question once Lamb is drafted by Raptors then other posters analyzed the situation. None of us were saying we shouldn't draft him because he won't fit well w/ Demar. We're only analyzing what its going to be like when both of them are on the same court together.


Yeah, maybe not-drafting was taking things to far. My point was more that analyzing how a player is going to fit with Demar is a pointless exercise. Demar is a horrible fit with every swing player in the NBA right now. I suppose he'd be an alright fit with Kevin Durant, but everybody is a good fit with Kevin Durant, and Durant takes so many shots and Demar is so weak defensively that I can't see how he's a better fit with Durant than Sefolosha. Ultimately, analyzing that kind of fit is a moot point because either Demar is going to have to improve or move on because there is no fit out there, and low and behold, the Raptors are the perfect team since they've got a bunch of SFs that are so crappy that Demar can basically do whatever he wants right now. That isn't something that can continue if the Raptors ever want to win more often than they lose.
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