2012 NBA Draft - Part V

fishercob · Post #261 » by **fishercob** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:52 pm

Miles Plumlee is officially a freak athlete.

Sullinger is not.

Crowder is strong as an ox.

Beal's numbers are all quite close to Harden's other than bench. Same for Eric Gordon.

Post #262 » by **nate33** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:06 pm

Beal has dispelled the concerns about his athleticism. His lane is among the best among guards in his class. Only Kim English and Tony Wroten are notably quicker. Beal's no step and max vertical are among the tops among everyone in this draft class.

TGW · Post #263 » by **TGW** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:08 pm

Plumlee's measurables are ridiculous, but the production doesn't match the measurements. Only 6 points and 7 boards with less than a block per game in his senior year. That's pretty bad.

Post #264 » by **nate33** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:09 pm

TGW wrote:People are sleeping on Barnes. His measurables are ridiculous. He's a legit 6'8 with a 40" vertical. His measurables are actually better than MKG's, and he can actually shoot the basketball. We shouldn't overlook him just yet. I think it would be shortsighted to degrade his potential because of 10 bad games out of 38.

Right now, I'd say Beal is probably my pick with MKG and Barnes as 2 and 2a.

Barnes' numbers are indeed ridiculous. His no step vertical looks like a misprint or something. He CRUSHES the rest of the field. It's interesting that has max vertical is only barely higher.

fishercob · Post #265 » by **fishercob** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:11 pm

I'm surprised MKG's results weren't better. He's super fast in a dead sprint, but worse lane agility than Kyle O'Quinn. Can't believe he only benched 6 reps.

Post #266 » by **Rafael122** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:20 pm

Not really concerned about the reps, the ball weighs what, 1 pound? If that?

Dat2U · Post #267 » by **Dat2U** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:20 pm

TGW wrote:People are sleeping on Barnes. His measurables are ridiculous. He's a legit 6'8 with a 40" vertical. His measurables are actually better than MKG's, and he can actually shoot the basketball. We shouldn't overlook him just yet. I think it would be shortsighted to degrade his potential because of 10 bad games out of 38.

Right now, I'd say Beal is probably my pick with MKG and Barnes as 2 and 2a.

Barnes overall college performance is why I'm sleeping hard on him, not just 10 games.

Anyone watching those games know Barnes isn't an elite athlete so I gotta take these numbers with a grain of salt.

And I've yet to see evidence that Barnes anything more than a volume shooter.

I could live with Beal at 3, I would go postal if Barnes was the choice.

Dat2U · Post #268 » by **Dat2U** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:21 pm

Rafael122 wrote:Not really concerned about the reps, the ball weighs what, 1 pound? If that?

How many did Durant do?

Post #269 » by **nate33** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:21 pm

Bradley Beal versus other similarly built shooting guards:

Code: Select all

Name           HTnoSH    Wgt  Wingspan  Reach  NStpV MaxV  Aglty  Sprint
Bradley Beal   6'3.25"   202  6'8"      8'4"   33    39    10.95  3.28  
Tony Allen     6'3.5"    214  6'9"      8'6"   31.5  36.5  10.7   3.19  
Randy Foye     6'2.25"   212  6'6.25"   8'1"   32    38    10.53  3.23  
O.J. Mayo      6'3.25"   200  6'6"      8'3.5" 30.5  41    11.04  3.14  
Eric Gordon    6'2"      222  6'9"      8'3"   32    40    10.81  3.01  
James Harden   6'4"      222  6'10.75"  8'7.5" 31.5  37    11.1   3.13  
M. Thornton    6'2.75"   194  6'5"      8'3"   31    33    10.73  3.28

Post #270 » by **nate33** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:30 pm

Draymond Green continues to impress. He has a very quick lane agility score for a big man (11.01) and his vertical is in line with Thomas Robinson and Terrence Jones. And that's despite a terrible body fat score. If he loses a little fat, he could pan out to be a respectable NBA player.

Thomas Robinson has a real disappointing lane agility of 11.96

TGW · Post #271 » by **TGW** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:31 pm

Dat2U wrote:
TGW wrote:People are sleeping on Barnes. His measurables are ridiculous. He's a legit 6'8 with a 40" vertical. His measurables are actually better than MKG's, and he can actually shoot the basketball. We shouldn't overlook him just yet. I think it would be shortsighted to degrade his potential because of 10 bad games out of 38.

Right now, I'd say Beal is probably my pick with MKG and Barnes as 2 and 2a.

Barnes overall college performance is why I'm sleeping hard on him, not just 10 games.

Anyone watching those games know Barnes isn't an elite athlete so I gotta take these numbers with a grain of salt.

And I've yet to see evidence that Barnes anything more than a volume shooter.

I could live with Beal at 3, I would go postal if Barnes was the choice.

None of these guys are finished products...obviously each player has significant holes in their game they need to work on. Barnes' problem is completely mental--physically, athletically, and skillwise he is already superior to 90% of the players in the league. It is the responsibility of the team picking him to help him get over that mental hump and help him improve his basketball IQ. I'm not convinced the Wizards staff would bring it out of him, but that doesn't dismiss the fact that he passes the eye test.

Dark Faze · Post #272 » by **Dark Faze** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:33 pm

Man why do you guys waste time writing essays on 2nd round draft picks when its pretty clear we're stocked with backup caliber players as it is.

TGW · Post #273 » by **TGW** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:33 pm

nate33 wrote:Draymond Green continues to impress. He has a very quick lane agility score for a big man (11.01) and his vertical is in line with Thomas Robinson and Terrence Jones. And that's despite a terrible body fat score. If he loses a little fat, he could pan out to be a respectable NBA player.

Thomas Robinson has a real disappointing lane agility of 11.96

Robinson had the second fastest sprint...out of everyone! His lane agility is only a few second off what Millsap had.

That guy is going to be productive. Not a dominant big, but a Boozer/Millsap guy.

fishercob · Post #274 » by **fishercob** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:34 pm

Dat2U wrote:
Rafael122 wrote:Not really concerned about the reps, the ball weighs what, 1 pound? If that?

How many did Durant do?

I believe zero. But I also think we can both agree that MKG's game bears little or no resemblance to Durant's.

Post #275 » by **nate33** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:34 pm

nate33 wrote:Thomas Robinson has a real disappointing lane agility of 11.96

But looking at things historically, lane agility seems to be all over the map. A pessimist would note that Robinson's lane agility is barely faster than Aaron Gray's 12.07 score. But he's faster than Al Horford (12.15) and Greg Monroe (12.1) and right on par with Anthony Randolph (11.86), Joakim Noah (11.79). So go figure.

Dat2U · Post #276 » by **Dat2U** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:36 pm

TGW wrote:None of these guys are finished products...obviously each player has significant holes in their game they need to work on. Barnes' problem is completely mental--physically, athletically, and skillwise he is already superior to 90% of the players in the league. It is the responsibility of the team picking him to help him get over that mental hump and help him improve his basketball IQ. I'm not convinced the Wizards staff would bring it out of him, but that doesn't dismiss the fact that he passes the eye test.

Why would we want a player like that? We might as well draft PJ III then. There's legitimate questions about whether Barnes loves the game. And saying Barnes is superior to 90% of the NBA skill wise and athletically is a massive overstatement. If he was so great skill wise and athletically you think he would have found a way to get to the rim more in college.

jivelikenice · Post #277 » by **jivelikenice** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:44 pm

nate33 wrote:Bradley Beal versus other similarly built shooting guards:

Code: Select all
Name HTnoSH Wgt Wingspan Reach NStpV MaxV Aglty Sprint Bradley Beal 6'3.25" 202 6'8" 8'4" 33 39 10.95 3.28 Tony Allen 6'3.5" 214 6'9" 8'6" 31.5 36.5 10.7 3.19 Randy Foye 6'2.25" 212 6'6.25" 8'1" 32 38 10.53 3.23 O.J. Mayo 6'3.25" 200 6'6" 8'3.5" 30.5 41 11.04 3.14 Eric Gordon 6'2" 222 6'9" 8'3" 32 40 10.81 3.01 James Harden 6'4" 222 6'10.75" 8'7.5" 31.5 37 11.1 3.13 M. Thornton 6'2.75" 194 6'5" 8'3" 31 33 10.73 3.28

The comp that bugs me for Beal is Foye. I think Beal will ultimately be a better shooter but I'm still worried his dribble drive game will closely resemble that of Foye's. Robinson to me is still the the #1 option for us. Beal's testing has put to bed my worries over his athleticism; but I'm still concerned about why he didn't shoot well from the field or from the ft line, and my previous concern over his dribble drive game. The mechanics on his shot look great, but is there something we're missing in terms of release point, or quickness of his release that pushed the numbers down?

Post #278 » by **nate33** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:45 pm

I get TGW's point. We're still talking about a guy with freakish measureables and a very good shooting stroke. Normally, anybody with that combination is going to get praised on potential alone. We have spent so much time bashing Barnes for not producing, that we've written him off as having no potential. Why are we not allowed to focus on Barnes' upside?

All that said, I would not take him at #3.

Post #279 » by **nate33** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:47 pm

jivelikenice wrote:
nate33 wrote:Bradley Beal versus other similarly built shooting guards:

Code: Select all
Name HTnoSH Wgt Wingspan Reach NStpV MaxV Aglty Sprint Bradley Beal 6'3.25" 202 6'8" 8'4" 33 39 10.95 3.28 Tony Allen 6'3.5" 214 6'9" 8'6" 31.5 36.5 10.7 3.19 Randy Foye 6'2.25" 212 6'6.25" 8'1" 32 38 10.53 3.23 O.J. Mayo 6'3.25" 200 6'6" 8'3.5" 30.5 41 11.04 3.14 Eric Gordon 6'2" 222 6'9" 8'3" 32 40 10.81 3.01 James Harden 6'4" 222 6'10.75" 8'7.5" 31.5 37 11.1 3.13 M. Thornton 6'2.75" 194 6'5" 8'3" 31 33 10.73 3.28

The comp that bugs me for Beal is Foye. I think Beal will ultimately be a better shooter but I'm still worried his dribble drive game will closely resemble that of Foye's. Robinson to me is still the the #1 option for us. Beal's testing has made up some ground in terms of my opinion on him v. MKG.

He's got Foye beat in every physical and athletic measurement except lane agility.

jivelikenice · Post #280 » by **jivelikenice** » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:48 pm

nate33 wrote:I get TGW's point. We're still talking about a guy with freakish measureables and a very good shooting stroke. Normally, anybody with that combination is going to get praised on potential alone. We have spent so much time bashing Barnes for not producing, that we've written him off as having no potential. Why are we not allowed to focus on Barnes' upside?

All that said, I would not take him at #3.

I wouldn't take Barnes at 3 either, but the measurable force you to go back to the tape and see if you missed something. The argument against him was that he's a Loul Deng type. If he's now that type with better athleticism than how could you not take a second look?