Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Jeremy Lamb (HOU)

[chimpston17]

seems like BC is not sold on lamb

Yeah.. this is either the biggest smoke screen ever or we don't want sh*t to do with Lamb...

what is the smoke screen you're referring to?

[TheDrunkenOak]

Let me ask you this. You ever seen a poor motor guy that keeps running around every screens in every offensive possession?

You think a guy that runs around a court equates to having a high motor?

So what is that? Is it FRPM = Foot Revolution Per Minute How many times his feet rotate within 60 seconds?

MOTOR = Intensity, Competitiveness, Hustle

You do realize that on offense, the coach is calling out the plays. It's not like playing 3 on 3 or playing at the YMCA where you're just running around like a headless chicken. Plays are called, screens are set that is why Lamb is always moving around on offense. His coach tells him to.

I think if it was up to Lamb, he would rather pitch a tent, pull out a cot and take a little nap at the 3 point line.

[fredericklove]

Let me ask you this. You ever seen a poor motor guy that keeps running around every screens in every offensive possession?

You think a guy that runs around a court equates to having a high motor?

So what is that? Is it FRPM = Foot Revolution Per Minute How many times his feet rotate within 60 seconds?

MOTOR = Intensity, Competitiveness, Hustle

You do realize that on offense, the coach is calling out the plays. It's not like playing 3 on 3 or playing at the YMCA where you're just running around like a headless chicken. Plays are called, screens are set that is why Lamb is always moving around on offense. His coach tells him to.

I think if it was up to Lamb, he would rather pitch a tent, pull out a cot and take a little nap at the 3 point line.

You think a guy that moves and runs around a court alot is unrelated to motor

FAIL. Learn some basketball terms. Motor is not intensity and competitiveness. You ever heard the word "intangibles"?? Intangibles are things you don't see nor feel, things like intensity, heart, competitive spirit and mental toughness. Intensity and competitiveness are part of intangibles.

Now what is motor? It means anything that makes you move, something having to do with muscular movement. In basketball wise, it means keeping your arms up, move your feet, do anything to keep yourself moving on the floor.

So you're saying a guy that runs around a court alot is not part of making yourself moving, which is what the definition of motor means. Then, seriously I don't know what is.

Plays are specifically designed to match a guy's skillset. If a guy isn't good at these plays, then why would coach makes these plays for him if they're not working?

[JamesNaismith]

It's actually starting to bother me that there is no mention of Lamb.


I can't believe that he's not around the top of our list for players we're evaluating....I'm really starting to lose faith that BC is even considering him because it's not really Colangelo's style to just blatantly smokescreen.

Because of that I think BC was actually pretty straightforward in the short interview on Raptors.com and is either waiting on seeing who falls through the cracks to him or is taking Lillard and Waiters could be the back up plan despite being frustrated about not showing up to workouts.

Disappointing to say the least.

[Waylon Mercy]

Were the Raptors...

Will pass on Lamb like we did with Iggy, Granger, Roy, Gay etc only to try and trade for him
6 years from now.

Im sure morons like Kelly and Embry have already brain washed Colangelo against him.

[Los Manos]

It's actually starting to bother me that there is no mention of Lamb.


I can't believe that he's not around the top of our list for players we're evaluating....I'm really starting to lose faith that BC is even considering him because it's not really Colangelo's style to just blatantly smokescreen.

Because of that I think BC was actually pretty straightforward in the short interview on Raptors.com and is either waiting on seeing who falls through the cracks to him or is taking Lillard and Waiters could be the back up plan despite being frustrated about not showing up to workouts.

Disappointing to say the least.

I think you're overstating your point a little. They have already worked him out on the day of the lottery, if anything he was near the top of their list of players they had interest in. Now whether that interest has wained since or if other players have jumped ahead of him on our draft board is another matter but clearly Lamb was on their radar all year.

In the period between the lottery and the combine Lamb was the biggest riser on the media mock drafts and while I agree it isn't traditional for BC to try and smokescreen, if they like him I can understand not adding fuel to Lamb's stock by mentioning him in interviews. Maybe they have just cooled on him since but Lamb was clearly a player they wanted to see up close early in the workout process which they did and it's hard to say whether they still rank him highly or whether other prospects like Lillard have simply climbed on our draft board.

I've been a supporter of drafting Lamb all year but if the execs see a critical flaw in his mental make-up then I'm more than happy to see us pass on him. Right now I'm not convinced we've made any definitive decision on him and are doing our due diligence on other prospects and trying to keep any interest in Lamb that the raptors have as off the radar as possible.

[fredericklove]

Casey's been nagging about wishing for perimeter shootings. Though Casey's opinion might not effect BC but BC himself also emphasized on wanting someone that can shoot as well. So....its really hard to say BC completely deliberately neglects Lamb on the list since he does fit one of the major aspects they want.

[OAKLEY_2]

Since Lamb plays Demar's position and he actually said: I'm not saying I want to play for them I'm not saying I wouldn't want to... and then didn't make himself available. His agent must be positioning him to go elsewhere. They also probably think his shooting and overall game is suspect.
Here is what Tim Chisolm had to say:

"Last summer, playing with Team USA’s U19 World Championship squad (that finished fifth), he shot 29.4% from three. Keep in mind, both of those three-point lines are shorter than the ones he’ll face in the NBA.

It’s not the percentage that stands out, though, it’s the sheer number of threes Lamb took. For someone as athletic as Lamb, with the array of moves he has at his disposal, to settle for that many threes is a galling waste of talent, and it speaks to his overall disinterest in playing an aggressive brand of basketball. Again, this is a guy that shoots just 3.6 free throws per game, but manages to get off 6.2 threes at a mediocre percentage and he’s a desirable fit for the Raptors? I don’t think so."

To be fair players play in a system. It is possible that in UConn's offence they didn't want him driving. Didn't want him going rogue and forcing his own turnovers. Chisolm goes on to to say Doron Lamb is the better Lamb in terms of shooting. I think Ross's athleticism is a much better bet to learn behind JJ than Lamb is behind Demar. Demar has a reliable mid range shot and gets to the line. My guess is Lamb is scratched off the list completely as a bad all round fit and the Raps (Casey) will not waste time on him going forward. Next.

[BillyGM]

Casey's been nagging about wishing for perimeter shootings. Though Casey's opinion might not effect BC but BC himself also emphasized on wanting someone that can shoot as well. So....its really hard to say BC completely deliberately neglects Lamb on the list since he does fit one of the major aspects they want.

Do you understand that your signature is sarcastic?

[Double Helix]

I think if you can accept the following things from the 8th pick in a draft that doesn't seem to have many clear-cut alphas then the pick *should* be Lamb. If BC doesn't like him though that's a different story.

1) Although we need an alpha/franchise player, this pick doesn't have to be that player. We may not be in a position to get that player in this draft and should instead get the best mixture of talent with low bust potential.

2) A sidekick type of player or third banana type (essentially your PER 17-19 types) of player doesn't need to be an amazing interview. These types aren't the franchise faces and don't have to be be as well spoken or have as much leadership ability as what you'd look for in your alpha. Rasheed Wallace was pretty crazy at times and also seemed very laid back and, well, a little dumb at times but he was still a very dominant basketball player.

3) Some players, and Lamar Odom, and Vince immediately come to mind, are simply more talented than others without pushing themselves to the max. They're naturals. And while it may be frustrating to always imagine what "could be" if they did push themselves... these types can sometimes be better than players who do have high motors and do push themselves to the max.

If you can accept all 3 of those points as true then I think Lamb makes the most sense at 8 as the potential BPA. He's only a month past the age of 20 and everything that we're talking about with him is what will probably hold him back from simply being a great player. Nothing seems likely to hold him back from becoming very good. And even less things seem likely to turn him into a bust. And in the NBA at the moment... there are hardly even good/average SGs so the idea of adding a guy who without much work will be a good one and with some luck/growth/coaching could be very good, well, that's good enough for me at 8. There just aren't that many good SGs in the league right now. He was one of the better players in college basketball this year, playing on a dysfunctional team in a much tougher conference than Lillard. He's 2 years younger than Lillard and seems to be peaking late. He seems to have growth left. He gets up about as high as Derozan does/did and will be entering the league with a much better handle and feel for the game than what Demar had. I think he's the BPA... warts and all.

We need to get our franchise piece some other way. And it's the fact that we're searching so desperately for that piece here at 8 is why we're looking at Lamb's interviews and thinking, "I don't want that guy to be our superstar." He won't be our superstar. We'll still need a superstar. Lamb could someday be a key piece on a winning basketball team as a SG though and we shouldn't pass that up simply because he doesn't have the charisma or the high intensity that you'd like to see in a superstar. There's nothing wrong with getting your sidekick or third banana type before your franchise piece. The Bulls faced the same situation drafting Luol Deng before lucking into Derrick Rose. He has everything he needs even if he doesn't fully apply himself to become a top 10 player at his position strictly because the SG spot is that weak. Getting an impact player there makes sense. We can get an impact PG another way.

[fredericklove]

Casey's been nagging about wishing for perimeter shootings. Though Casey's opinion might not effect BC but BC himself also emphasized on wanting someone that can shoot as well. So....its really hard to say BC completely deliberately neglects Lamb on the list since he does fit one of the major aspects they want.

Do you understand that your signature is sarcastic?

You haven't seen Lamb's crossover much, have you?

[fredericklove]

Good post by helix. Raptors don't seem impressed with Lillard yesterday so I can't wait to see their workout with Lamb

[tdotrep2]

How did u get a good read on wether or not the raptors like lillard or not?

[DG88]

How did u get a good read on wether or not the raptors like lillard or not?

Took it from Doug Smith saying that no one wowed them in yesterday's workout. Though Doug is all the way in Oklahoma covering the NBA Finals. I'm pretty sure they'll bring Lamb in for a workout. The Raptors wouldn't be that stupid.

[fredericklove]

How did u get a good read on wether or not the raptors like lillard or not?

Ed from the interview said he couldn't get a whole lot of detail from lillard's 1 vs. none workout and quite upset about it.

[phailing101]

Has BC said anything formally about Lamb and why he hasn't been brought in?

[DG88]

How did u get a good read on wether or not the raptors like lillard or not?

Ed from the interview said he couldn't get a whole lot of detail from lillard's 1 vs. none workout and quite upset about it.

But he stated that they already have a large body of work from watching him at Weber St. The individual workout was more so to get a closer look at him. Aaron Goodwin is the one responsible for the one on one workout. Damian said if it was up to him he'd be competing against the other prospects. Since he's a mid lottery pick Goodwin is trying to keep his clients stock from falling by doing individual workouts. Players in the late lottery on wards usually partake in group workouts to increase their draft stock. It's really out of the teams control. If it was up the Raptors it would be a 5 on 5 setting for every workout.

[Los Manos]

I think if you can accept the following things from the 8th pick in a draft that doesn't seem to have many clear-cut alphas then the pick *should* be Lamb. If BC doesn't like him though that's a different story.

1) Although we need an alpha/franchise player, this pick doesn't have to be that player. We may not be in a position to get that player in this draft and should instead get the best mixture of talent with low bust potential.

2) A sidekick type of player or third banana type (essentially your PER 17-19 types) of player doesn't need to be an amazing interview. These types aren't the franchise faces and don't have to be be as well spoken or have as much leadership ability as what you'd look for in your alpha. Rasheed Wallace was pretty crazy at times and also seemed very laid back and, well, a little dumb at times but he was still a very dominant basketball player.

3) Some players, and Lamar Odom, and Vince immediately come to mind, are simply more talented than others without pushing themselves to the max. They're naturals. And while it may be frustrating to always imagine what "could be" if they did push themselves... these types can sometimes be better than players who do have high motors and do push themselves to the max.

If you can accept all 3 of those points as true then I think Lamb makes the most sense at 8 as the potential BPA. He's only a month past the age of 20 and everything that we're talking about with him is what will probably hold him back from simply being a great player. Nothing seems likely to hold him back from becoming very good. And even less things seem likely to turn him into a bust. And in the NBA at the moment... there are hardly even good/average SGs so the idea of adding a guy who without much work will be a good one and with some luck/growth/coaching could be very good, well, that's good enough for me at 8. There just aren't that many good SGs in the league right now. He was one of the better players in college basketball this year, playing on a dysfunctional team in a much tougher conference than Lillard. He's 2 years younger than Lillard and seems to be peaking late. He seems to have growth left. He gets up about as high as Derozan does/did and will be entering the league with a much better handle and feel for the game than what Demar had. I think he's the BPA... warts and all.

We need to get our franchise piece some other way. And it's the fact that we're searching so desperately for that piece here at 8 is why we're looking at Lamb's interviews and thinking, "I don't want that guy to be our superstar." He won't be our superstar. We'll still need a superstar. Lamb could someday be a key piece on a winning basketball team as a SG though and we shouldn't pass that up simply because he doesn't have the charisma or the high intensity that you'd like to see in a superstar. There's nothing wrong with getting your sidekick or third banana type before your franchise piece. The Bulls faced the same situation drafting Luol Deng before lucking into Derrick Rose. He has everything he needs even if he doesn't fully apply himself to become a top 10 player at his position strictly because the SG spot is that weak. Getting an impact player there makes sense. We can get an impact PG another way.

Great post and all valid points. Your slice of perspective is needed because as you say too many are dismissing Lamb entirely because he doesn't have the mental make-up of a perennial all-star. We're drafting 8th, in a draft with only one surefire all-star in Anthony Davis. It may be a deep draft but not in franchise changing potential. To come away from the 8th spot with a 2nd/3rd option starter would be a success and as you say, to be that kind of player you don't have to be a leader in the lock-room or a brilliant interview. You need talent, a skill-set for your position and to at least be coachable. Lamb may not be the most tuned in during this workout and combine process and isn't particularly engaging in front of the camera but he's clearly not a bad kid. He is coachable and was remarkably consistant statistically game to game over the season, something which undermines the notion that he is prone to losing focus and lacking a motor.

The raptors brass saw Jeremy Lamb workout before any other prospect around the time of the lottery. Lamb believed he had a good workout and made his shots. It wouldn't surprise me to see the raptors do their due diligence on the other prospects available in our draft range first and then bring Lamb in last of the group. That would certainly follow the pattern they took with DeRozan who they clearly targeted early on and who was the last workout at the ACC in 2009.

[fredericklove]

Well that's the procedure to do for every prospect that are on their targeted list. Go into the game and watch them but I'd expect they can find a lot more extremely valuable and concrete info if he were to do 5 on 5 with the raps. It makes a lot of difference compared to 1 vs.none. Who knows. Maybe Ed sees something that no one can see. Something that he doesn't like.

[DG88]

Well that's the procedure to do for every prospect that are on their targeted list. Go into the game and watch them but I'd expect they can find a lot more extremely valuable and concrete info if he were to do 5 on 5 with the raps. It makes a lot of difference compared to 1 vs.none. Who knows. Maybe Ed sees something that no one can see. Something that he doesn't like.

Of course which is what Ed was referring too with the individual workouts not really giving them more info. It's not something they can control it's the agents decision not the teams or the players sadly. Teams know who these guys are these individual and group workouts are not just to see how they push through the drills but get to know them on a personal level. I'm pretty sure they'll bring in Lamb and Rivers in on the same day with other prospects who they could pick with their second rounders sometime this week.