Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Damian Lillard (POR)

cdel00 · Post #501 » by **cdel00** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:59 am

I'd put Will Cherry among the elite defenders in all of college ball.

That Montana team was a damn good defensive team.

BirdmanPresents · Post #502 » by **BirdmanPresents** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:04 am

Fenris-77 wrote:No actually it's not like that at all, since the players in Big Sky are legit NCAA players, and players for teams who unanimously decided to double or triple Lillard every game. Guys at D1 schools don't have to put up with that nonsense because they have better team mates. Your characterization what this little factoid means is very much in keeping with your obvious bias here.

What bias, I like Lillard, he will probabally end up ahead of Sully on my list. I'm just giving a fair evaluation of some cons. You do understand there is different levels on NCAA right? Not all NCAA players are the same, there is a reason why there is different divisions and leagues. No need to get butt hurt.

Fenris-77 · Post #503 » by **Fenris-77** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:11 am

BirdmanPresents wrote:What bias, I like Lillard, he will probabally end up ahead of Sully on my list. I'm just giving a fair evaluation of some cons. You do understand there is different levels on NCAA right? Not all NCAA players are the same, there is a reason why there is different divisions and leagues. No need to get butt hurt.

You're 100% correct, of course there's levels to the NCAA. That said, Lillard faced more constant doubles and triples than anyone else playing at his 'level', which you need to take into account when you look at his crazy good efficiency.

BirdmanPresents · Post #504 » by **BirdmanPresents** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:19 am

^ I do and I understand. Facing double teams is almost like shooting, if your a good shooter at any level that usually translates over. Where I disagree is the fact he will bring experience from playing with lower competition.

fredericklove · Post #505 » by **fredericklove** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:23 am

Fenris-77 wrote:Because it sounds biased and shirty, and it comes from a committed and rabid Lamb supporter? Just to hazard a guess...

Don't get me wrong. I'm like Bird too, cos I do like Lillard too, I really like him because he can probably solve the hole at 1. I even emphasized on draft/draft combine thread about how much I hope he pans out if we decide to draft him. But staring at the posts you guys made about how big sky conference competition is acceptable or holds no concern to Lillard's game, hehe. Now that is quite bias, wouldn't you say? Just to be clear, I'm not here as Lamb's supporter but I'm here as a logical raptors prospects supporter. I think it's not going to be fair if I compare Lamb's competition to Lillard's (e.g. championship level, or ...facing 2012 Syracuse's notorious defense)...but I'm here to kind of question about the level of competition Lillard faced. So like I said, I have no problem w/ the raptors drafting Lillard but, it doesn't mean I can't raise questions and concerns here, like how you did in the Lamb thread :razz:

fredericklove · Post #506 » by **fredericklove** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:33 am

BirdmanPresents wrote:^ I do and I understand. Facing double teams is almost like shooting, if your a good shooter at any level that usually translates over. Where I disagree is the fact he will bring experience from playing with lower competition.

I think these double team or triple team defense from lower competition aren't exactly prolific compared to the superior defense from superior teams, such as in terms of rotating back on defense, or getting back on defense after being picked, the physicality/quickness of their defense or the defensive IQs of all the players from the other team, basically just at lower level. Playing well against double teams from a crappy team isn't really a whopping life-long achievement praise imo.

kingz32 · Post #507 » by **kingz32** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:57 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bEjoBzlq0I[/youtube]

team edward · Post #508 » by **team edward** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:54 am

kingz32 wrote:[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bEjoBzlq0I[/youtube]

Socks with sandals? He's not even ready to deal with the dress code in the big league.

JamesNaismith · Post #509 » by **JamesNaismith** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:49 am

Considering BC's not even looking at Lamb I'm slowly just accepting that this is our guy.

Not that I have a problem at all with Lillard just annoys me BC isn't doing his homework on Lamb at all and it may turn out to be a SG Rudy Gay situation all over again. But Lillard has been closing the gap with his rave reviews. I'm definitely very concerned about his level of competition (regardless of double teams etc) and the fact that he is already Ed and DeMar's age because he is much closer to a finished product than the other draftees.

But to his credit you have to love his attitude/personality, his hard work and the one thing that I do like that's not discussed as much is that he's had to play the role of being "the man" on his team and lived up to it. Often prospects go back a year or two and GMs want to see can they actually carry their team...and he did it by all measures so that definitely bodes well when considering him here.

I'm personally not a fan of drafting him and then still bothering to go trying to acquire Nash as Lillard wouldn't be your regular 18-19 year old rookie. I really wouldn't want the kid to only be getting used to a role as a starter by the age of 24-25. If he's taken then majority of this team is actually closer to DeMar's age not Bargnani...and you let Lillard/DD/Ed/Val grow together; Bargnani be damned lol

pistons · Post #510 » by **pistons** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:18 am

Why couldn't Lillard play WITH Nash (if you guys were to acquire him) until he is ready to assume the starting PG role. I think Dallas proved you could win with 2 PG sized guards last season as long as you had a defensive anchor in the middle. Not saying Jonas V is Tyson Chandler, but he definitely could be. I think with Lillard's explosiveness and length , you could get away with him logging some minutes at the 2 in addition to spelling Nash. Then by year 3 , he could transition into the starting PG role.

Los Manos · Post #511 » by **Los Manos** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:48 am

I don't see how it hurts Lillard's NBA future at all to spend 2 years backing up Nash before hopefully taking over the reigns. Nash is after all 38 already, he wouldn't be playing 40 mins a game more like 30 mins. Potentially giving Lillard just under 20 mins a game while practicing everyday against Nash would benefit any young point guard whether they're 18 or 22.

fredericklove · Post #512 » by **fredericklove** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:49 am

If you make him play the 2, or have him play off from Nash in the lineup. Then you're just going to turn him into a 2, or a scoring guard instead of letting him handle the key to running the team from day 1. If we draft this guy, I want him to run this team from first day. No gain, no pain. You learn through mistakes and pain. That'll be the biggest growth in terms of talent. Not that I mind Nash taking control and teaching Lillard but if he's this good, we need to have him develop earlier than ..let's say at age 25, he finally blossom. Then hits 6 more years then he'll be 31 by that time.

fredericklove · Post #513 » by **fredericklove** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:51 am

Los Manos wrote:I don't see how it hurts Lillard's NBA future at all to spend 2 years backing up Nash before hopefully taking over the reigns. Nash is after all 38 already, he wouldn't be playing 40 mins a game more like 30 mins. Potentially giving Lillard just under 20 mins a game while practicing everyday against Nash would benefit any young point guard whether they're 18 or 22.

I don't mind that too. And actually, I totally don't mind that because that spells the end of Joseless area. Ship them two out of town asap

JamesNaismith · Post #514 » by **JamesNaismith** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:56 am

Right after feeling like I'm on board for Lillard I think I just tripped myself out of being as high on him by watching some footage of him and then who he compared himself too....

Jeff Teague.

It's kind of scary to me how similar they actually look:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niOftAk2ISQ[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwposMephTM[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqTplUCwWiM[/youtube]

fredericklove · Post #515 » by **fredericklove** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:03 am

OMG

That's a striking similarity between their game. If that's Lillard's ceiling, I'm going to cry :cry:

I guess he has the shooting skills, but I know he's nowhere as crafty when he drives, not someone like a Kyrie or any top 5 PG's when they take it to the paint. The only way I see him excel is through his p&r ability and shooting. He better have his explosiveness/athleticism to back him up when he drives. If not...then I really see a Jeff Teague type of game in the NBA :banghead:

JamesNaismith · Post #516 » by **JamesNaismith** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:05 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnkt5NZgg6w[/youtube]

I'm sorry but it's just really incredible to me how similar they look when I watch them.

Los Manos · Post #517 » by **Los Manos** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:13 am

If Jeff Teague could only find some consistency he would be considered a very good NBA point guard. As far as his skill-set, physicality, shooting numbers etc.. I agree he is eerily similar to Lillard although Lillard is a superior athlete judging by their combine numbers.

If Lillard is able to put up 'good day' Jeff Teague numbers in the NBA consistently then you have yourself a very good point guard. Just take a look at his game by game splits form the past year, they are all over the place:

http://www.hoopdata.com/gamelog.aspx?pl ... f%20Teague

JamesNaismith · Post #518 » by **JamesNaismith** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:26 am

Los Manos wrote:If Jeff Teague could only find some consistency he would be considered a very good NBA point guard. As far as his skill-set, physicality, shooting numbers etc.. I agree he is eerily similar to Lillard although Lillard is a superior athlete judging by their combine numbers.

If Lillard is able to put up 'good day' Jeff Teague numbers in the NBA consistently then you have yourself a very good point guard. Just take a look at his game by game splits form the past year, they are all over the place:

http://www.hoopdata.com/gamelog.aspx?pl ... f%20Teague

I agree that with consistency Teague would be one of the better young PGs but it almost looks like a career projection....possibly Teague with consistency and then you have to wonder what would Teague with consistency average?!? Judging by those numbers maybe 18-21ppg and 4-6apg. Solid but a bit disheartening when I was admittingly starting to buy into some of the hype from his footage and others' opinions on him.

The one thing I would be praying for is that his attitude over time propels him not only to consistency but beyond where just the talent alone takes him ie/ Kobe vs VC. Sometimes it's not a matter of talent but what you do with it. It may also be a matter of confidence as Teague is really being used as a complimentary player whereas Lillard would be coming in as one of the centerpieces and they do have different personalities....but I just think seeing that Teague has now scaled back my expectations and makes me realize he can become very solid but we'll have to see if he can ever become a real all-star like talent like I was starting to fall into believing.

S.W.A.N · Post #519 » by **S.W.A.N** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:27 am

For argument sake...

Jeff teague put up a 15.8 per and 6 ws this season... not terrible at all

Onlykiwirapsfan · Post #520 » by **Onlykiwirapsfan** » Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:00 am

Also, I dont watch a lot of Hawk's basketball, but I imagine his assist numbers are quite low in that system because:

1) It is an iso heavy offence
2) Joe Johnson is a primary ball handler

I imagine if you plugged Teague into our system his assist numbers would be a lot prettier. Consider that next year we will be running the PnR a LOT with Bargs and Val, I think any of our PG's will be able to put up nice assist numbers.

If still on the Board by our pick what are the chanches we draft him?