2012 NBA Draft - Part V

[payitforward]

We seem to be running out of things to talk about, so I have a project to suggest that would solve the problem.

I think we should petition the NBA to add a 3d round to the draft. No, seriously -- think of how much speculation we could do here if there were another round! Think about what could define a good round 3 prospect. All those guys who dominated at podunk colleges. Guys with a standing reach (any standing reach).

We could even have a 3d kind of guard -- after all, why stop at 2? I think the new category should be the "pointless guard" -- though, come to think of it, that may not really be a new category. Don't we already have one of those?

What do you say? Can I get some support for this idea?

It would make more sense if the NBA was more like MLB with a roster
that was 1.5 - 2.0 times the current NBA roster size and a more pure
affiliation between D-league and parent teams.

Yes it would. But, then again, I was making a joke not sense! Still... it'd be interesting to construct an imaginary round 3 right here. Leave out every player in e.g. the DR mock draft -- what would round 3 look like?

[nate33]

I don't like the idea of a 3rd round. It's hard enough to make it in the NBA as it is. At least if you are the 61st best player in a draft class, you can try and join the exact right team that matches your skillset. If you're the 60th best player, you're stuck on a team that might be a bad fit or have a log jam at your position.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

White strikes me as a bigger Boris Diaw, but one who cannot shoot free throws and who has a very complicated mental makeup. I would pick Draymond Green ahead of Royce White 9.5 times out of 10.
Green put up better numbers over a longer period of time in the same conference. Green didn't have anxiety issues or legal problems or team suspensions in his background. On top of that White is a poor, poor FT shooter. He shot 50% at the line. By all accounts from Tom Izzo, Green is solid as a rock. Draymond Green was the Big Ten Player of the Year. White was one of the better players in the Big 12.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usQJQi3IiE0[/youtube]

White is a real mixed bag of really good and bad. He's got the Anthony Mason game mentioned. I would even call him an oversized Magic. Sort of like Barkley morphed with Magic physically, but slower than Sir Charles. The problems with White are deal breakers as far as I am concerned. He is brick layer. Shoots 50% from the line. He does not move his feet well on defense and he doesn't play with a high IQ defensively. His 5 assists a game came with almost 4 turnovers a game. Worst than that, I can't get past his issues with thefts in the past, leaving one college on bad terms, and issues with anxiety. NBA teams are constantly on planes. I doubt he will steal when he has money, but his mental approach to pressure scares me.

I would pass on White, despite him having some real good rebounding, passing, and scoring numbers. If he hit his FTs and was merely decent on the perimeter, he would be a superstar player. Seems to be a nice guy, but I know from experience some issues get worse with age and life experiences.

[TGW]

Hey CCJ -- what's your opinion on Drummond?

[WizarDynasty]

White strikes me as a bigger Boris Diaw, but one who cannot shoot free throws and who has a very complicated mental makeup. I would pick Draymond Green ahead of Royce White 9.5 times out of 10. Green put up better numbers over a longer period of time in the same conference. Green didn't have anxiety issues or legal problems or team suspensions in his background. On top of that White is a poor, poor FT shooter. He shot 50% at the line. By all accounts from Tom Izzo, Green is solid as a rock. Draymond Green, not Royce White, was the Big Ten Player of the Year.

I have been wrong on this type comparison before.

I did not realize Dwight Howard was that good coming out of HS. He proved to be way better than Emeka Okafor. Sometimes, experience and winning can be overrated and youthful athleticism with size underrated. So, although I really prefer Draymond Green I am very curious to see who will be the better NBA player between him and Royce White. If I were Flip Saunders I might say I think one guy is about style and the other substance.

royce is way more powerful, way lower to ground with tighter handle on his dribble, can actually beat guards with his first step. Both have great vision but Royce actually drives on his toes...kind of like Derrick Rose and for him to have that much bulk and do that...and he has excellent body control most of the time on his drives ..he literally dislodges the average perimeter player with his body...impossible for a ref to call a foul. having him come off the bench is like having Rivera close for you. The guy has superstar 4th quarter written all over him. I dont know much about draymond green but i doubt he can touch White's mismatch potential.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

White strikes me as a bigger Boris Diaw, but one who cannot shoot free throws and who has a very complicated mental makeup. I would pick Draymond Green ahead of Royce White 9.5 times out of 10. Green put up better numbers over a longer period of time in the same conference. Green didn't have anxiety issues or legal problems or team suspensions in his background. On top of that White is a poor, poor FT shooter. He shot 50% at the line. By all accounts from Tom Izzo, Green is solid as a rock. Draymond Green, not Royce White, was the Big Ten Player of the Year.

I have been wrong on this type comparison before.

I did not realize Dwight Howard was that good coming out of HS. He proved to be way better than Emeka Okafor. Sometimes, experience and winning can be overrated and youthful athleticism with size underrated. So, although I really prefer Draymond Green I am very curious to see who will be the better NBA player between him and Royce White. If I were Flip Saunders I might say I think one guy is about style and the other substance.

royce is way more powerful, way lower to ground with tighter handle on his dribble, can actually beat guards with his first step. Both have great vision but Royce actually drives on his toes...kind of like Derrick Rose and for him to have that much bulk and do that...and he has excellent body control most of the time on his drives ..he literally dislodges the average perimeter player with his body...impossible for a ref to call a foul. having him come off the bench is like having Rivera close for you. The guy has superstar 4th quarter written all over him. I dont know much about draymond green but i doubt he can touch White's mismatch potential.

Hey WD, I am sorry. I didn't realize I posted the above. I edited the post a lot … White didn't even play in the Big 10!

I went back and watched the vid and really looked over his stats. WD, White does have a LOT of talent. I can see where he could turn out to be a power-Lamar Odom some day. I am scared of his issues and poor shooting most of all.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Hey CCJ -- what's your opinion on Drummond?

Stanley Roberts, Micheal Olowokandi, Daniel Orton, and Kwame Brown. Add Andre Drummond to that five and allow Benoit Benjamin to decide who is most like him. Which player turns out (or ended up being) as good as Benoit?

Drummond has freakish physical ability wasted in an underachieving frame. He is young, but he was really bad. I guess Drummond cannot help but be better than I think he will be, because I really don't like him.

[fugop]

I am pretty confident that Fab Melo will be the second best big in this draft. I think he has Tyson Chandler written all over him, and they're near physical doppelgangers, with the exception that Melo is 30lbs heavier. His length would complement our relatively brutish frontline.

[Dat2U]

Hey CCJ -- what's your opinion on Drummond?

Stanley Roberts, Micheal Olowokandi, Daniel Orton, and Kwame Brown. Add Andre Drummond to that five and allow Benoit Benjamin to decide who is most like him. Which player turns out (or ended up being) as good as Benoit?

Drummond has freakish physical ability wasted in an underachieving frame. He is young, but he was really bad. I guess Drummond cannot help but be better than I think he will be, because I really don't like him.

Who was worse in their freshman season, Ty Zeller, Fab Melo or Andre Drummond?

[Mizerooskie]

The 3rd round idea might actually give the D-League more legitimacy. I wouldn't be opposed to it.

[7-Day Dray]

Hey CCJ -- what's your opinion on Drummond?

Stanley Roberts, Micheal Olowokandi, Daniel Orton, and Kwame Brown. Add Andre Drummond to that five and allow Benoit Benjamin to decide who is most like him. Which player turns out (or ended up being) as good as Benoit?

Drummond has freakish physical ability wasted in an underachieving frame. He is young, but he was really bad. I guess Drummond cannot help but be better than I think he will be, because I really don't like him.

Who was worse in their freshman season, Ty Zeller, Fab Melo or Andre Drummond?

Exactly. I just hate when people talk about how guys like Drummond didn't produce as a Fr., but than rave about the prospects that aren't underclassmen that produced much less than guys like Drummond in their first year. Let me compare Drummond's freshmen stats to some other big men prospects freshmen stats:

Andre Drummond: 10.0 ppg, 7.6 rpg, 2.7 bpg, 53.8 FG%

Tyler Zeller: 3.1 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.2 bpg, 47.2 FG%

Thomas Robinson: 2.5 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.5 bpg, 48.5 FG%

Drummond had the best raw stats out of all three, and his numbers would've been better if he played w/ competent teammates. Those guys did play much less minutes, but for a reason. Both Zeller and Robinson have improved by leaps and bounds, but what's not to say Drummond can't? He's only 18 y/o. Not enough people are taking age into account.

[7-Day Dray]

Thomas Robinson draft workout interview: http://www.nba.com/wizards/video/thomas ... -interview

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Hey CCJ -- what's your opinion on Drummond?

Stanley Roberts, Micheal Olowokandi, Daniel Orton, and Kwame Brown. Add Andre Drummond to that five and allow Benoit Benjamin to decide who is most like him. Which player turns out (or ended up being) as good as Benoit?

Drummond has freakish physical ability wasted in an underachieving frame. He is young, but he was really bad. I guess Drummond cannot help but be better than I think he will be, because I really don't like him.

Who was worse in their freshman season, Ty Zeller, Fab Melo or Andre Drummond?

Zeller. You got me there, Dat! But Zeller was on a national championship team. IIRC Ed Davis was the man inside on that team. Zeller played a little but was a ways off physically and as a rebounder. (I could be mixing up his sophomore season, now that I think about it.)

I don't remember Fab Melo as a frosh--he could have been worse.

[DCZards]

I'm not a fan of Drummond...at least what I've seen of him thus far. But I hate it when people try to pigeonhole 18 year olds and say they are going to turn out like this player or that player. I know the temptation is to conpare and contrast college players with similar players who have either succeeded or failed in the NBA, but I prefer to give kids a chance to grow up before deciding their fate. Maybe that's just me.

Drummond is the kind of player who scares the hell out of GMs: They are scared to draft him because he has shown so little desire to be great. But, at the same time, they are scared to pass on him because of his tremendous upside.

[closg00]

I am pretty confident that Fab Melo will be the second best big in this draft. I think he has Tyson Chandler written all over him, and they're near physical doppelgangers, with the exception that Melo is 30lbs heavier. His length would complement our relatively brutish frontline.

He looked really good in his workout videos FWIW, I think he will go or should go before Leonard.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I'm not a fan of Drummond...at least what I've seen of him thus far. But I hate it when people try to pigeonhole 18 year olds and say they are going to turn out like this player or that player. I know the temptation is to conpare and contrast college players with similar players who have either succeeded or failed in the NBA, but I prefer to give kids a chance to grow up before deciding their fate. Maybe that's just me.

Drummond is the kind of player who scares the hell out of GMs: They are scared to draft him because he has shown so little desire to be great. But, at the same time, they are scared to pass on him because of his tremendous upside.

That is precisely why IMO top-5 is too high to select Drummond. I can see anywhere after 7 or 8, but even then I wouldn't pick him. I would miss on somebody else before I would gamble on Drummond.

[7-Day Dray]

Harrison Barnes on Sports Science: http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=7309828

[Mizerooskie]

Who was worse in their freshman season, Ty Zeller, Fab Melo or Andre Drummond?

Exactly. I just hate when people talk about how guys like Drummond didn't produce as a Fr., but than rave about the prospects that aren't underclassmen that produced much less than guys like Drummond in their first year. Let me compare Drummond's freshmen stats to some other big men prospects freshmen stats:

Andre Drummond: 10.0 ppg, 7.6 rpg, 2.7 bpg, 53.8 FG%

Tyler Zeller: 3.1 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.2 bpg, 47.2 FG%

Thomas Robinson: 2.5 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.5 bpg, 48.5 FG%

Drummond had the best raw stats out of all three, and his numbers would've been better if he played w/ competent teammates. Those guys did play much less minutes, but for a reason. Both Zeller and Robinson have improved by leaps and bounds, but what's not to say Drummond can't? He's only 18 y/o. Not enough people are taking age into account.

Uh, those stats are useless without context. Zeller and Melo were both role players that didn't get consistent playing time (7.8 MPG and 9.9 MPG, respectively). There's really no conclusions that can be drawn from their freshman numbers. Even peripherals and rate-based stats are pretty useless with that little playing time.

Also, we're talking about Drummond in terms of a early lottery pick, whereas Zeller would be a lat lottery/mid-1st pick and Melo a late-1st/early 2nd round pick.

[7-Day Dray]

Uh, those stats are useless without context. Zeller and Melo were both role players that didn't get consistent playing time (7.8 MPG and 9.9 MPG, respectively). There's really no conclusions that can be drawn from their freshman numbers. Even peripherals and rate-based stats are pretty useless with that little playing time.

Also, we're talking about Drummond in terms of a early lottery pick, whereas Zeller would be a lat lottery/mid-1st pick and Melo a late-1st/early 2nd round pick.

Like I stated in my post, those guys played less minutes, but it was for a reason. If both of those guys were so good or even as good as Drummond was as a Fr., they would've earned more minutes.

And even though guys like Zeller and Melo are ranked lower on the draft boards, I've seen a number of posters here saying they'd rather have Zeller or Melo than Drummond.

[payitforward]

MK-G video scouting report on DR: http://t.co/oMEzJdeG

Incredible good stuff, pretty bad other stuff. Still a total treat to watch the intensity and gifts of this 18-year old kid. But he'll have to remake his shot altogether to reach his potential.