Bellator General Discussion and Info

[REDDzone]

Random Bellator News: I think Mike Richman is doing boxing matches now, coming up soon.

[Bernman]

It's definitely an issue. You don't make a video game to be an ancillary product when the television series is on shaky footing. You invest those dollars into making the main product stronger. This is definitely cart before horse, UFC and K1 have it too and so should we, etc.

I bought a couple editions from the Ready 2 Rumble boxing series back in the day before Gino Stiletto and J.R. Flurry became stars in real life. <sarcasm>

They could have sold the game if it was decent and affordable, and used that as a springboard for more people to learn about their roster, and in turn switch the channel to MTV2.

They aren't going to get many more people to watch Bellator from adding talent and improving production. They've tried that outside of offering an HD option. Their fan base is pretty much set with die hards until they move to Spike. A video game could have been a way to expand their fan base beyond die hards. As is, they have a solid amount of die hards. They spread their broadcasts across multiple platforms and channels, and there was a few big screw-ups in the TV guide for their shows, so the ratings are deceptive.

[SDM]

I think what's most concerning/telling is only 8 licenses. Did they approach fighters only to have them decline? If these guys have dreams of going to UFC, there's a conflict of interest there with the Undisputed series. I imagine a lot of guys don't want to tie-up their likeness with Bellator, which means this concept was highly likely to fail anyway. Obviously, I don't know the nature of the contracts for likeness but if UFC set the benchmark, judging by the Fitch thing, we know they're pretty serious and tough to break.

If Bellator wanted to make a quick, disposable game to drum up a little more interest in their product, they'd pay some designer prodigy from the local university to make a Facebook plug-in or iPhone ap, pay for maybe 4 licenses, and make it quick, dirty, and easily attainable. Instead they're blowing an insane wad of cash on what is essentially a mega scaled-down version of Undisputed because Viacom looked in the mirror and didn't like the size of their pecker. It's a puzzling move.

[Bernman]

Bellator is really starting to build up their HW division. They signed Beast Boy Barnett, Pro Elite would have been Tourney Finalist Ryan Martinez, and #1 HW prospect Vitaliy Minakov is probably on the horizon as well. They'll join BE #3 Alexei Kudin, who has won 13 out of his last 14, the only loss coming by SD. BE #6 Ruslan Magomedov. Big Monster Santos. 4-1 UFC HW Jon Madsen. Mark Holata, who has a few decent wins, has won 9 of 10, and showed in his last fight he's learned to go to the ground game when his opponent is weak there. Even with horrible luck like they suffered last tourney, they have the depth to avoid an illegitimate challenger for Konrad like Prindle this time.

Like I said earlier, looks like BFC is really hooking up South Florida unlike UFC. This is the tentative early card for July 20th (which Nemesis should be going to if he knows what's good for him).

Amoussou-Baker
LHW Semi I
LHW Semi II
Zaromskis-Spiritwolf III
Brian Foster-Raul Amaya
Beast Boy-Ryan Martinez
Ben Saunders-Rudy Bears
Rad Martinez-TBA
The Rest is still TBA

That's going to be a fun one.

[cowboyronnie]

I believe Brian Foster is an awesome fighter...with THE WORST **** luck. :shakeshead:

[REDDzone]

So happy Jon Madsen is getting another chance in a big org. He wasn't the flashiest fighter, but 4-1 in the ufc and then cut after a loss via cut is just bullsh*t. He would have been in the tuf finals if not for Brendan Schaub cheating and grabbing the cage 5 times in their fight.

He seems like a pretty cool dude. Used to go to the same bar to watch the fights as me when I lived in MN. Real quiet dude but huge and scary lol. Would always come in for the HW fights or to see fellow tuf alum. E.g., he came to 137, watched Nelson and Mitrione, then dipped before BJ/Diaz.

[Bernman]

Minakov made it official! HUGE signing for Bellator's HW division.

Here I was in favor of releasing Konrad and putting the division on the backburner until a while into their Spike run because all of the turmoil they went through. I didn't think they could create a viable HW division given their means, but remarkably IMO they've done so. I can't wait to see the type of roster they put together once they're on Spike. Sam Caplan does a great job.

[Gold Chain]

That is a big signing.

I'll be watching him.

But with these hot prospects, you never know how the pressure will affect them.

Excited!

[Cammo101]

There is nothing viable about Bellator's HW division. The tourney will be better than the last one was, but there is still no one here at the level to give Konrad even a sweat.

[Bernman]

You're a Zuffa Zombie. Your posts about Bellator are pretty much all in one direction. And when I don't share in your constant negative spin you project that I'M the one who's majorly biased. I care about MMA and quality fighters, regardless of the organization where they ply their trade. That's the difference between you and I. You're the organization fanboy. Case in point your use of we in association with UFC here: http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=270&t=1181624&start=75#p32057364

This is a huge get for the UFC. Bibiano is one of the best fighters not currently under the Zuffa banner. Now go get Kawajiri and we are golden.

You'll never see me say we in association with Bellator and hope for every fighter to one organization like that. A partial split of talent is the way it should be in a non-unionized plus international sport, and that's the way it always will be. Until Zuffa doesn't lowball talents like Khalidov and Bibiano, and pay prospects 6/6, a large portion of quality fighters will compete elsewhere when they can. Bellator is one of these burgeoning elsewheres. Fighters like Minakov prove that.

That's acceptable I guess if you're one of these guys who wants all the top fighters to be housed under one banner, so rationalize that all but a few fighters elsewhere stink, and trash them when they don't choose your favorite organization, but keep it out of this thread because it's about Bellator so you're trolling.

[Nemesis21]

After being cut by StrikeForce, Paul Daley has signed with Bellator.

[REDDzone]

Yea, signing guys like Falcao, Brett Rogers, and now Daley is disappointing to me.

edit: And its not only because I have personal distaste for those guys and because they all have significant issues (Daley punching after the bell, Rogers beating his entire family, and Falcao punching after every bell ever)

But it also deviates from bellator's model, which is oftentimes grooming their own prospects. Not that free agent signing are some bad gig for ANY organization, but these guys aren't even that good/have momentum.

Rogers has lost 4 of 5 dating back to 2009, with a NC there because of an illegal blow he delivered. His lone win? Ruben Villareal by decision. Villareal is an under .500 fighter.

Daley is also 2-3 in his last 5 and not that I have been following a lot, but has a history of missing weight a lot. I'm skeptical that he will be able to remain on weight for the length of a tournament. And lets say he DOES win a tournament, what happens? He fights Askren? How many times does Daley have to prove that he has nothing for any decent wrestler?

[Bernman]

Daley wasn't cut, he asked for his release. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/bellator-signs-paul-daley-fan-reaction-212500677--mma.html

I don't care for the Rogers signing individually, but in regards to the acquisitions mentioned as a whole, gotta make your name off somebody in MMA, and better to do that off character rejects rather than performance rejects I guess. Bellator originals weren't making their name off Bellator originals. They won't be able to accomplish that until they move to Spike, increasing production quality, and drawing more eyes to the product.

[Cammo101]

You're a Zuffa Zombie. Your posts about Bellator are pretty much all in one direction. And when I don't share in your constant negative spin you project that I'M the one who's majorly biased. I care about MMA and quality fighters, regardless of the organization where they ply their trade. That's the difference between you and I. You're the organization fanboy. Case in point your use of we in association with UFC here: http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=270&t=1181624&start=75#p32057364

This is a huge get for the UFC. Bibiano is one of the best fighters not currently under the Zuffa banner. Now go get Kawajiri and we are golden.

You'll never see me say we in association with Bellator and hope for every fighter to one organization like that. A partial split of talent is the way it should be in a non-unionized plus international sport, and that's the way it always will be. Until Zuffa doesn't lowball talents like Khalidov and Bibiano, and pay prospects 6/6, a large portion of quality fighters will compete elsewhere when they can. Bellator is one of these burgeoning elsewheres. Fighters like Minakov prove that.

That's acceptable I guess if you're one of these guys who wants all the top fighters to be housed under one banner, so rationalize that all but a few fighters elsewhere stink, and trash them when they don't choose your favorite organization, but keep it out of this thread because it's about Bellator so you're trolling.

I like Bellator as much as the next guy, but lets not pretend 5-0 unproven HWs and Zuffa castoffs/convicts are on the same level as signing a guy like Bibiano Fernandes (who oddly enough might not even sign with the UFC now). I like a lot of what Bellator is doing, and haver said so in this chat. But, I also say when they do things I do not agree with. The same as I do with the UFC or Strikeforce.

I'm not a Zuffa Zombie by any means, but I do associate a lot more with the UFC than any other promotion. Probably because they have 90% of the top fighters in MMA on their roster and put on way more shows than anyone else.

I love the Daley signing for Bellator.

[REDDzone]

I edited my post to add a lot of thoughts, but submitted after your post.

[Bernman]

Yea, signing guys like Falcao, Brett Rogers, and now Daley is disappointing to me.

edit: And its not only because I have personal distaste for those guys and because they all have significant issues (Daley punching after the bell, Rogers beating his entire family, and Falcao punching after every bell ever)

But it also deviates from bellator's model, which is oftentimes grooming their own prospects. Not that free agent signing are some bad gig for ANY organization, but these guys aren't even that good/have momentum.

Rogers has lost 4 of 5 dating back to 2009, with a NC there because of an illegal blow he delivered. His lone win? Ruben Villareal by decision. Villareal is an under .500 fighter.

Daley is also 2-3 in his last 5 and not that I have been following a lot, but has a history of missing weight a lot. I'm skeptical that he will be able to remain on weight for the length of a tournament. And lets say he DOES win a tournament, what happens? He fights Askren? How many times does Daley have to prove that he has nothing for any decent wrestler?

You're kind of making my point for me even seriously considering that Daley would reach Askren. I've read frequently since his signing that he'll either have nothing for Askren or KO Askren. There's no way in hell he'd advance that far through the likes of Lima, Koreshkov, Good, etc. The Bellator WW division has gotten very deep, yet they have one guy in their top 25. Daley can help them get recognition by beating him (although he'll have to make weight like you said, but it's worth the risk, given their depth and the fact he'll probably not get past the 2nd round). Similar to how the featherweights got recognition and catapulted their rankings through Sandro, who BFC out-bid UFC for on tourney pay alone, which is a rarer occurrence for veterans at the more traditional weights like 170.

Rogers is getting heavily overrated by the masses relative to Bellator's heavyweights also. I've heard many people say he's instantly Bellator's 2nd or 3rd best HW. Minakov, Kudin, Santos, Holata, Martinez, Magomedov, Barnett, etc. beat him, their stock goes up more than simply beating each other. That's not the way it should be, but that's the way it is unfortunately. Names matter, and you in part make your name by beating names.

[REDDzone]

You're kind of making my point for me even seriously considering that Daley would reach Askren.

What point? I'm confused about this part.

[REDDzone]

Rogers is getting heavily overrated by the masses relative to Bellator's heavyweights also. I've heard many people say he's instantly Bellator's 2nd or 3rd best HW. Minakov, Kudin, Santos, Holata, Martinez, Magomedov, Barnett, etc. beat him, their stock goes up more than simply beating each other. That's not the way it should be, but that's the way it is unfortunately. Names matter, and you in part make your name by beating names.

I agree with you, and its unfortunate.

But let us think of the 3 portions of bellator viewers here: 1) those who don't know who Rogers is, 2) those who know who he is and would be impressed by anyone who beats him, and 3) those who know who he is and knows he sucks so wouldn't care if someone beat him.

The people in 1 being predominant would make Rogers a bad signing. Therefore, how much overlap is there between 2 and 3 here? How many people are toeing that line between casual and hardcore fan that know that Rogers KOed Arlovski and remember the show done on him when he was fighting Fedor, but yet haven't heard of him getting embarrassed in 3 of 4 of his fights since (4 of 4 considering barely beating Villareal is kind of embarrassing relative to the caliber fighter he supposedly is/was)?

I guess its reasonable to think people would only know of his strikeforce fights, but even there he lost his last 3.

[cowboyronnie]

I DON'T THINK YOU UNDERSTAND THAT BRETT ROGERS WAS ONCE A TOP TEN HW AND A LEGIT WIN FOR FEDOR

[REDDzone]

I DON'T THINK YOU UNDERSTAND THAT BRETT ROGERS WAS ONCE A TOP TEN HW AND A LEGIT WIN FOR FEDOR

wut Dana told me that Fedor hasn't fought anyone good since the late 90's? Rogers wasn't even fighting then.