The Official Draft Thread

JJ13 · Post #1481 » by **JJ13** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:27 pm

If you're going to trade Gortat it better be for a damn good draft choice (not necessarily pick), or for a proven NBA player. My dream would be to flip Gortat for Josh Smith...it makes too much sense to happen though.

Fo-Real · Post #1482 » by **Fo-Real** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:31 pm

You dont get rid of very good players because they arent great, you add great players (Draft or Free Agency) to put with you good players to make a good to great team, you keep positive assets and Gortat is a positive asset. Like when we started out this offseason, if we get an offer we cant refuse like including him in a package for a proven star (Josh Smith, Zach Randolplh, Iggy, or someone the likes), then ofcourse and if not he stays. Now, like a child with his dollar burning a hole in his pocket, you guys want to just spend it now now now. Relax gain assets without giving them up, unless the asset you get back outweighs the asset you have and a late 1st or an unproven second year guy, or a bag of DAMN MAGIC BEANS aint it!!!

jredsaz · Post #1483 » by **jredsaz** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:36 pm

JJ13 wrote:
Mjeezy2006 wrote:Without Nash do you think gortat will take us anywhere ....??? No he won't !!! We need to start gaining assets because right now he have none besides gortat and Morris and Dudley ... If you wanna call them assets we..need a rebuild! You overvalue what we have...

My point wasn't to not trade Gortat...just not for Henson or Leonard! Henson is going to get snapped in half in his first NBA game

If you can get a lottery pick plus a young player, under 25, with a specific skill set of need (like perimeter defense, interior defense, rebounding, etc.) I say go for it. Gortat will lose some production and, therefore value next year if Nash is not around. That's what Nash does, make other dudes max out their potential. That's why he is two time.

Plus, IMO don't automatically replace Gortat with a big in the draft. Who cares? We are going to suck anyway. Draft the two BPA's and get ready for a season of "growth and improvement." Lol.

Sun Scorched · Post #1484 » by **Sun Scorched** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:39 pm

Fo-Real wrote:
Sun Scorched wrote:To be fair, if Nash leaves Gortat's value plummets. There is absolutely no reason to roster Gortat if you're in rebuild. He's more valuable to another team.

If Nash stays, you keep Gortat.

Not an absolute, if we get a Pg. who can run the pick and roll, and is a halfway decent passer he is still valuable. Hell If we get a go to Sf. or Sg. who can create thier own shot, and or put pressure on the defense it makes him valuable because it frees him up for cuts and board work. If we did get a guy like Dragic, Lin, or someone in that mold, Gortat still works.

I have to level - there wasn't one player on the team towards the end of the season that I was more dissapointed with. Maybe we weren't watching the same games, but he wasn't playing defense, he wasn't grabbing boards, he wasn't boxing out his man, he wasn't taking it to the rim... he just wasn't.

I honestly don't see the point of keeping him on board if Nash leaves. What does it accomplish? It's not like we're going to compete against any of the Western teams with Nash gone - won't happen. So what's the end goal? Stay mediocre? I'd much rather draft some upside.

I'm not a fan of tanking. I would want our young guys to go out there and give it 110% every night. But I think some of you are INCREDIBLY underestimate Nash's impact on this team if you think we are anywhere close to competitive without him.

jredsaz · Post #1485 » by **jredsaz** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:42 pm

Fo-Real wrote:You dont get rid of very good players because they arent great, you add great players (Draft or Free Agency) to put with you good players to make a good to great team, you keep positive assets and Gortat is a positive asset. Like when we started out this offseason, if we get an offer we cant refuse like including him in a package for a proven star (Josh Smith, Zach Randolplh, Iggy, or someone the likes), then ofcourse and if not he stays. Now, like a child with his dollar burning a hole in his pocket, you guys want to just spend it now now now. Relax gain assets without giving them up, unless the asset you get back outweighs the asset you have and a late 1st or an unproven second year guy, or a bag of DAMN MAGIC BEANS aint it!!!

A mid to late lottery pick is an asset worth getting. I have no idea why we would trade for Josh Smith, Randolph, or Iggy with a roster that will look like ours next year. The goal is to get draft picks, draft well, and suck for a couple years so we can hopefully draft a franchise player to pair with these young pieces. Gortat/Smith/Randolph/Iggy would get us no where except maybe to the late lottery or low seed in the playoffs. That's been a lot of fun.

Fo-Real · Post #1486 » by **Fo-Real** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:47 pm

No one with any morals or competitive spirit would on purpose suck for a couple of years, call me stubborn!!

Post #1487 » by **bwgood77** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:49 pm

We're not going to trade Gortat before the draft. Should we ultimately trade him or not? If Nash leaves, it does make more sense IF you could get a really good young prospect from a team that wants to compete this year and needs a big. But it all depends on what we could get in return.

If we could do something like when we traded Delk and Rogers for JJ, then fine, but the team still wants Nash to come back, so they won't even consider trading him before that is determined.

jredsaz · Post #1488 » by **jredsaz** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:55 pm

bwgood77 wrote:We're not going to trade Gortat before the draft. Should we ultimately trade him or not? If Nash leaves, it does make more sense IF you could get a really good young prospect from a team that wants to compete this year and needs a big. But it all depends on what we could get in return.

If we could do something like when we traded Delk and Rogers for JJ, then fine, but the team still wants Nash to come back, so they won't even consider trading him before that is determined.

1. I know what Lon has been saying about Nash but I think the Organization and Nash are ready to move on. IMO they are speaking like this to placate the masses.

2. I agree if the Organization does not get what they feel is value for Gortat then they should keep him, look to move him during the season like you said. I think the point that is being made is that his value might be as high as its going to get and keeping him w/o Nash could negatively impact what the suns could get for him later on.

DirtyDez · Post #1489 » by **DirtyDez** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:26 pm

Fo-Real wrote:No one with any morals or competitive spirit would on purpose suck for a couple of years, call me stubborn!!

The players will try hard regardless if that makes you feel better. :lol:

jredsaz · Post #1490 » by **jredsaz** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:36 pm

DirtyDez wrote:
Fo-Real wrote:No one with any morals or competitive spirit would on purpose suck for a couple of years, call me stubborn!!

The players will try hard regardless if that makes you feel better.

LOL!

jredsaz · Post #1491 » by **jredsaz** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:44 pm

Fo-Real wrote:No one with any morals or competitive spirit would on purpose suck for a couple of years, call me stubborn!!

But you're right, suck was the wrong word. Other terms that are more acceptable to the competitive spirit:

Rebuilding
Going young
Infusion of youth

Post #1492 » by **ATTL** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:48 pm

Fo-Real wrote:No one with any morals or competitive spirit would on purpose suck for a couple of years, call me stubborn!!

We won't suck on purpose. We will just be bad naturally. Do not waste money on stopgap players during our rebuild, that will be a waste for now and in the future. Any player we sign now won't be part of our core and will hinder out rebuild by keeping us in the 5-9 range instead of the 1-3 range of the draft.

Trade Gortat to the highest bidder draft pick wise and move on. Dudley is still young enough to be a role player on our next contending team.

RunSunRun · Post #1493 » by **RunSunRun** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:04 pm

Hopefully we don't draft Waiters and its just another smoke screen on top of smoke screen covering the original smoke screen.

And I don't think any Suns fan will be happy to see Gortat go, except for those special people who think that one game against Utah makes his entire career, :lol:

But keeping Gortat when we are going into a rebuild would be foolish and would just lead to pointless wins that keep us mired in mediocrity longer than we should be. I'd rather we suck for a year or two and reload than be stuck at this .500 pace for the next 5+ years.

YouTube · Post #1494 » by **Kerrsed** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:07 pm

Rivers mentioned in an interview that Phoenix was on his workout list and that we are a good fit. Maybe things changed and he decided not to workout for us, which if that is true, im guessing is because we already gave him a promise. We promise him at #13, and thats why he continues to workout for teams that are all drafting higher than us.

He was originally slatted to go in the #16-#20 range, but with our promise to him, he knows that he is guaranteed to at least go in the Lotto. Why does he need to workout for us if we already gave him a promise that his floor is #13?

Im waiting to hear back from Coro on whether he knows if we are bringing him in or not.

jredsaz · Post #1495 » by **jredsaz** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:17 pm

Kerrsed wrote:Rivers mentioned in an interview that Phoenix was on his workout list and that we are a good fit. Maybe things changed and he decided not to workout for us, which if that is true, im guessing is because we already gave him a promise. We promise him at #13, and thats why he continues to workout for teams that are all drafting higher than us.

He was originally slatted to go in the #16-#20 range, but with our promise to him, he knows that he is guaranteed to at least go in the Lotto. Why does he need to workout for us if we already gave him a promise that his floor is #13?

Im waiting to hear back from Coro on whether he knows if we are bringing him in or not.

Hold on to that fantasy for dear life, Kerssed! I dislike you at this point because you convinced me that he will develop into something special. Now I am getting all kinds of butt hurt that he wont be around for us to draft at #13.

carey · Post #1496 » by **carey** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:22 pm

That's not how a promise works. You stop working out for teams HIGHER than the team that promised you in hopes that you fall to that team. It's how we got Amare at #9.

jredsaz · Post #1497 » by **jredsaz** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:26 pm

carey wrote:That's not how a promise works. You stop working out for teams HIGHER than the team that promised you in hopes that you fall to that team. It's how we got Amare at #9.

I think thats why Rivers is only working out for teams in the top 10. Because, it was the Hornets that made the promise.

jredsaz · Post #1498 » by **jredsaz** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:27 pm

But apparently Rivers sucked it up in the Wizards workout...

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2012/6/15 ... ds-workout

YouTube · Post #1499 » by **Kerrsed** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:34 pm

carey wrote:That's not how a promise works. You stop working out for teams HIGHER than the team that promised you in hopes that you fall to that team. It's how we got Amare at #9.

Not exactly. That only happens sometimes.

Players can be told that a team promises to pick them at a certain spot and they dont shut down all workouts. They continue to workout, knowing that promise is the lowest that they will go. Thats what Rivers is doing. Waiters on the otherhand got a promise from a high drafting team that he was good with and cancelled all workouts. Waiters knows he's not going in the top 5, so if he was promised by a team drafting #6-#8, he knows that is his top value and cant go any higher. Thats when players completely shut it down.

Waiters got a promise at #8 and liked the situation. No more workouts.
Rivers got a promise at #13. He now only works out for a few teams drafting higher than us.

It makes sense.

YouTube · Post #1500 » by **Kerrsed** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:38 pm

jredsaz wrote:
carey wrote:That's not how a promise works. You stop working out for teams HIGHER than the team that promised you in hopes that you fall to that team. It's how we got Amare at #9.

I think thats why Rivers is only working out for teams in the top 10. Because, it was the Hornets that made the promise.

When it was reported that a lottery team had promised to draft Duke shooting guard Austin Rivers, many suspected that it came from New Orleans with its No. 10 pick. His father, Celtics coach Doc Rivers, and Hornets coach Monty Williams are close friends, and Austin is just the sort of young, confident talent that New Orleans could use during its rebuilding process. But a source with knowledge of the situation insisted that the Hornets have not promised Rivers.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/w ... index.html

Also from that same link:

UConn shooting guard Jeremy Lamb remains in the running as a top-10 pick, but his workout with Toronto (No. 8) on Thursday hardly helped his case. Sources said Lamb turned his ankle minutes into the session, and he was expected to cancel a scheduled workout with Portland (Nos. 6 and 11) for Friday. Though the injury is not considered serious, the predraft workout phase is obviously not a good time to be dealing with a weak ankle.

That sucks. The less he worksout, the more he is going to drop, while all the other SG's stock goes up. I want nothing to do with him.