SixerFan1976 Offseason Thread (Update Pg 73)

Post #1181 » by **Sixerscan** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:18 pm

i'm not sure I see your distinction. Having the draft first allows you to know who you should target in free agency. you can really go either way. care to flesh it out some more?

i assume the nba and the nfl are different because the nfl off season is longer. having the draft in june allows teams to still have all summer to develop the rookies somewhat. plus I'd imagine preparing for an NFL draft takes a lot more work than the NBA, so they need more time.

phillysixed · Post #1182 » by **phillysixed** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:25 pm

Skates wrote:People keep saying Jefferson is not a winner because he is a god awful defensive player and in a league where defensively mobile bigs is the trend, that will only get worse. He can't defend a pick and roll or pop play to save his life, blocks the occasional shot but rarely is in good help position and is a middling at best on ball defender.

I am simply not a fan of starting bigs who can't defend (mind you, the Sixers often ahve starting bigs who simply can't play). Every year Jefferson's team plays much better defense when his butt is on the bench. Gasol is older and I doubt the LAL trade him for Iggy anyway. Truthfully, I'd rather have Milsap than Jefferson.

Eh, he is a little sluggish at times but you can't deny that he's a great post presence in the middle, even if he's a little undersized for the 5 spot. Dude can hold his own with pretty much anyone in the league.

To correct what I said in a previous post, I don't think there was any actual rumor about Iggy and the #2 pick from Charlotte. I think what was actually rumored had something to do with Gay from Memphis but even then it sounds bogus.

Skates · Post #1183 » by **Skates** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:41 pm

phillysixed wrote:
Skates wrote:People keep saying Jefferson is not a winner because he is a god awful defensive player and in a league where defensively mobile bigs is the trend, that will only get worse. He can't defend a pick and roll or pop play to save his life, blocks the occasional shot but rarely is in good help position and is a middling at best on ball defender.

I am simply not a fan of starting bigs who can't defend (mind you, the Sixers often ahve starting bigs who simply can't play). Every year Jefferson's team plays much better defense when his butt is on the bench. Gasol is older and I doubt the LAL trade him for Iggy anyway. Truthfully, I'd rather have Milsap than Jefferson.

Eh, he is a little sluggish at times but you can't deny that he's a great post presence in the middle, even if he's a little undersized for the 5 spot. Dude can hold his own with pretty much anyone in the league.

To correct what I said in a previous post, I don't think there was any actual rumor about Iggy and the #2 pick from Charlotte. I think what was actually rumored had something to do with Gay from Memphis but even then it sounds bogus.

Al Jeff can do that, but in his career he has not consistently done so, not by a long shot. He blocks shots too, but still often misses providing weakside help. There is a reason he is on his third and likely soon to be fourth team. If we had Serge Ibaka to line up next to him I wouldn't worry about it or if he was a younger player I would say he can be coached up. He's not and he can't. I don't hate Al Jeff, on the right team he would be a great fit, but to trade our best defender for a very poor one when the team wins on D...I'm just saying I'd rather go young than lateral at best.

FlightBrothers · Post #1184 » by **FlightBrothers** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:56 pm

Sixersfan,

Is there any interest in Javale McGee by the Sixers?

If he is realistic I would love to amnesty brand to get him here. Then you could trade Iggy for Jefferson and draft your shooter ross at #15

I would be ok with a front line of Al Jefferson and Javale McGee

PG) Jrue
SG) Turner
SF) Ross
PF) Jefferson
C) McGee

B) Thad
B) Lavoy
B) vucevic
B) Meeks
......

Tension · Post #1185 » by **Tension** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:09 pm

FlightBrothers wrote:Sixersfan,

Is there any interest in Javale McGee by the Sixers?

If he is realistic I would love to amnesty brand to get him here. Then you could trade Iggy for Jefferson and draft your shooter ross at #15

I would be ok with a front line of Al Jefferson and Javale McGee

PG) Jrue
SG) Turner
SF) Ross
PF) Jefferson
C) McGee

B) Thad
B) Lavoy
B) vucevic
B) Meeks
......

I want McGee but not paired with Jefferson. We'd have one of the worst post defenses in the league. I don't know why people on this board want Al Jeff on our team in the first place. Not that I don't like him as a player, because I do. But we need to stock up on young players under 26-27 yrs old and have our team grow collectively building chemistry and developing together. half-assing a win now team will just pencil us in a spot to get repetitively raped by the Heat regardless. At least if we go young, Wade will be a ghost of himself, LeBron will be 30 or so and all of our guys would be hitting the primes of their careers.

Chamberlainship · Post #1186 » by **Chamberlainship** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:09 pm

Would Denver even let him go after trading for him? So the sixers are going to make major changes with a lame duck gm?

The Sixer Fixer · Post #1187 » by **The Sixer Fixer** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:17 pm

Tension wrote:I want McGee but not paired with Jefferson. We'd have one of the worst post defenses in the league. I don't know why people on this board want Al Jeff on our team in the first place. Not that I don't like him as a player, because I do. But we need to stock up on young players under 26-27 yrs old and have our team grow collectively building chemistry and developing together. half-assing a win now team will just pencil us in a spot to get repetitively ***** by the Heat regardless. At least if we go young, Wade will be a ghost of himself, LeBron will be 30 or so and all of our guys would be hitting the primes of their careers.

Do you know Al Jefferson is 27.

Tension · Post #1188 » by **Tension** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:31 pm

well I mean't literally under that age. He'll be 28 next season and by the time our core guys are 25 or so he'll be in the late stages of his career

The Sixer Fixer · Post #1189 » by **The Sixer Fixer** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:31 pm

A plan that would make me happy would be the following:

1. Draft Henson (not my first choice, but I think he works best with the rest of this plan).
2. Trade Iguodala for Al Jefferson.
3. Amnesty Brand
4. Sign Eric Gordon (yea, I know there's no guarantee there).
5. Let Spencer, Lou, Jodie go and re-sign L. Allen
6. Go after FA's like Brandon Rush or Asik - hope to get 1 of them (no $$ for both)
7. Fill in rest of bench with min level guys (or more Thad for a couple bench guys who add up to his salary)

PG - Jrue
SG - E. Gordon
SF - Turner
PF - Henson
C - Al Jefferson

This gets you the shooting, scoring and shot blocking. Obviously, you need to hope Henson falls to us and you can pry Gordon away in FA, but that lineup would give me a little hope for the future.

The Sixer Fixer · Post #1190 » by **The Sixer Fixer** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:32 pm

Tension wrote:well I mean't literally under that age. He'll be 28 next season and by the time our core guys are 25 or so he'll be in the late stages of his career

LOL. So 1 year makes that much of a difference?

sixerswillrule · Post #1191 » by **sixerswillrule** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:46 pm

The Sixer Fixer wrote:
Tension wrote:well I mean't literally under that age. He'll be 28 next season and by the time our core guys are 25 or so he'll be in the late stages of his career

LOL. So 1 year makes that much of a difference?

More so the fact that he's peaked is what makes the difference. But of course most players peak by age 27-28. I would only target players 24 or younger.

The Sixer Fixer · Post #1192 » by **The Sixer Fixer** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:51 pm

sixerswillrule wrote:
The Sixer Fixer wrote:
Tension wrote:well I mean't literally under that age. He'll be 28 next season and by the time our core guys are 25 or so he'll be in the late stages of his career

LOL. So 1 year makes that much of a difference?

More so the fact that he's peaked is what makes the difference. But of course most players peak by age 27-28. I would only target players 24 or younger.

Good luck with that.

Tension · Post #1193 » by **Tension** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:53 pm

well I was gonna say under 25 but that felt a bit extreme so I made it a bit more lenient and well yeah... Jefferson is already pretty darn slow with injury concerns and sure the 30 year mark is nowhere near as drastic as it is in the NFL, but that doesn't change the fact that Jefferson likely wouldn't be with us when we're contenders or at least useful. He'd just be there to make our draft pick have worse value and pencil us in as a zombie team that can't make it out of the 2nd round (given the circumstances of Miami and probably the Bulls)

sixerswillrule · Post #1194 » by **sixerswillrule** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:56 pm

The Sixer Fixer wrote:
sixerswillrule wrote:More so the fact that he's peaked is what makes the difference. But of course most players peak by age 27-28. I would only target players 24 or younger.

Good luck with that.

There's no reason to trade for Al Jefferson. He's a good player but he's not great, and he's peaked. If we trade Iguodala, we should trade him for the best young player possible, whomever that may be. Not a similarly aged player who will not be getting better in the future.

Tension · Post #1195 » by **Tension** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:00 am

The Sixer Fixer wrote:Good luck with that.

Ibaka is 22 years old and developing more each year. There's a good chance he can't be retained so why not overpay him next year and trade Iggy for expirings+lottery pick allowing us to fully draft our team, have them all around the same tender age and still be able to sign someone(s) else.

The Sixer Fixer · Post #1196 » by **The Sixer Fixer** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:09 am

sixerswillrule wrote:
The Sixer Fixer wrote:
sixerswillrule wrote:More so the fact that he's peaked is what makes the difference. But of course most players peak by age 27-28. I would only target players 24 or younger.

Good luck with that.

There's no reason to trade for Al Jefferson. He's a good player but he's not great, and he's peaked. If we trade Iguodala, we should trade him for the best young player possible, whomever that may be. Not a similarly aged player who will not be getting better in the future.

So age is more important than talent now? Wow. I mean, I can see someone saying Gasol doesn't make sense because he's over 30, but 27 is NOT too old in the NBA. He hasn't had any significant injuries recently to be worried about either. There's no reason to believe Jefferson won't be as productive for the next 5 years. He doesn't rely on athleticism to do what he does like many other guys. Gasol, Garnett, Duncan and tons of other PF's didn't magically start declining at 27.

Good to know Dwight Howard wouldn't make sense here since he's 26. And Deron Williams is 27, so he's out. I mean, these guys careers are almost over. What dumb team is going to bring them in. The HEAT better hope they win now because LeBron is about to fall off a cliff..he's that magical 27 yrs old and Bosh is winding down on his career at 28. Let's not even talk about Wade, he's 30.

Who are these young players you would move him for? I'm curious (besides draft picks) who's out there and is a legitimate get for Andre that is under this age criteria. I mean, it makes more sense for us to move him for Jefferson since he's older than Al...so since we have to trade him, I'm curious who you would do it for,

sixerswillrule · Post #1197 » by **sixerswillrule** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:12 am

The Sixer Fixer wrote:Good to know Dwight Howard wouldn't make sense here since he's 26. And Deron Williams is 27, so he's out. I mean, these guys careers are almost over. What dumb team is going to bring them in. The HEAT better hope they win now because LeBron is about to fall off a cliff..he's that magical 27 yrs old and Bosh is winding down on his career at 28. Let's not even talk about Wade, he's 30.

sixerswillrule wrote:There's no reason to trade for Al Jefferson. He's a good player but he's not great

Nice try, though.

The Sixer Fixer · Post #1198 » by **The Sixer Fixer** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:12 am

Tension wrote:
The Sixer Fixer wrote:Good luck with that.

Ibaka is 22 years old and developing more each year. There's a good chance he can't be retained so why not overpay him next year and trade Iggy for expirings+lottery pick allowing us to fully draft our team, have them all around the same tender age and still be able to sign someone(s) else.

Problem is, if they are all the same age (and half way decent), you can't afford them all. If they aren't REAL good, you aren't going to win anything anyhow...so the assumption is all these young guys are going to get much better and command much more $$. So you are in the same predicament that OKC is. There's no way Ibaka makes this core we have a whole lot better. I mean, he's a great shot-blocker, but honestly is a worse man defender and offensive player than Brand right now. Can he get better, sure, but he's not going to be a superstar on offense ever.

Tension · Post #1199 » by **Tension** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:15 am

All the players you just name dropped are potential HOFers. Al Jeff.. not so much.

Funny you say Wade though since the entire sports world criticizes his regression anytime he has a bad game.

The Sixer Fixer · Post #1200 » by **The Sixer Fixer** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:15 am

sixerswillrule wrote:
sixerswillrule wrote:There's no reason to trade for Al Jefferson. He's a good player but he's not great

Nice try, though.

Point is, you said "he peaked" because he's 27. You are implying that every 27 year old is on the downside of his career at that point. That's simply not true. Guys can stay at that level well into their 30's. By then, these guys typically start getting cheaper to retain and thus allow you to spend more on other players.