SixerFan1976 Offseason Thread (Update Pg 73)

[Tension]

Good luck with that.

Ibaka is 22 years old and developing more each year. There's a good chance he can't be retained so why not overpay him next year and trade Iggy for expirings+lottery pick allowing us to fully draft our team, have them all around the same tender age and still be able to sign someone(s) else.

Problem is, if they are all the same age (and half way decent), you can't afford them all. If they aren't REAL good, you aren't going to win anything anyhow...so the assumption is all these young guys are going to get much better and command much more $$. So you are in the same predicament that OKC is. There's no way Ibaka makes this core we have a whole lot better. I mean, he's a great shot-blocker, but honestly is a worse man defender and offensive player than Brand right now. Can he get better, sure, but he's not going to be a superstar on offense ever.

I wouldn't exactly mind being in the predicament OKC is in. Our team philosophy is that we are a balanced team and i'm not exactly banking on Jrue and Turner to turn into superstars by their next contract. If anything, we could always go the Boston route... but give Ibaka 3 years and that mid range jumper of his is gonna be automatic.

[sixerswillrule]

There's no reason to trade for Al Jefferson. He's a good player but he's not great

Nice try, though.

Point is, you said "he peaked" because he's 27. You are implying that every 27 year old is on the downside of his career at that point. That's simply not true. Guys can stay at that level well into their 30's. By then, these guys typically start getting cheaper to retain and thus allow you to spend more on other players.

Point is, he's not getting better. He may stay relatively close to the same level for a few more years (you mention guys like KG, but his best season actually did come at age 27...), but the player that he is is good but not great. He's not going to improve. Trade for a star in their late 20s? Sure, sign me up. Trade for Al Jefferson in his late 20s? No thanks.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

When Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, and Garnett joined up in 2007 they were all 30 or older. It's not always a super young team that wins NBA rings. I see the Heat winning it this year and if you look at that teams roster it is pretty much a team of veterans in their late 20's/30's.

Same with the Spurs and the rings they won

Same with the Lakers of recent years

Even that Detroit Piston team in 04 had basically a team of veterans on it in or around 30 years of age.

I don't get where people say that Al Jefferson is too old for this team. Elton Brand was 29 when we signed him to his contract.... Al Jefferson would be two years younger at this juncture and would actually be poised to have a hell of a season here if he was in fact acquired via Iguodala trade.

[The Sixer Fixer]

Trade for a star in their late 20s? Sure, sign me up. Trade for Al Jefferson in his late 20s? No thanks.

Name me a star in their late 20's that you can acquire for Andre. I'm trying to say it's not realistic what you are suggesting. You can't get a star for Iguodala. You can simply get a similar level player who is around the same age, a draft pick which is a complete crap shoot or a slightly better player who is older.

[sixerswillrule]

Decline is relative. Most players peak in their late 20s. But you guys are confusing decline with not being a good player. It's all relative to how good you were at your peak, but everyone declines at some point. Yes, Pierce, Allen, and KG were all great into their 30s. You know why? Because they were stars, and depending on your definition, superstars in their prime. In KG's case, he was a top 15 player of all-time. But he did decline, and in his case he did have his best season at age 27. That was his peak. He was still an awesome player for years after, but just because he was so absolutely amazing at his best. It's all relative. Jefferson is what he is now. He may stay around this level for a few more years, but he's certainly not getting better. He's a good player, but I don't see a reason to trade for him.

[sixerswillrule]

Trade for a star in their late 20s? Sure, sign me up. Trade for Al Jefferson in his late 20s? No thanks.

Name me a star in their late 20's that you can acquire for Andre. I'm trying to say it's not realistic what you are suggesting. You can't get a star for Iguodala. You can simply get a similar level player who is around the same age, a draft pick which is a complete crap shoot or a slightly better player who is older.

Where did I say that we can get a star for Iguodala? You're the one who brought up stars in their late 20s, equating me not wanting to trade for Jefferson in his late 20s to me not wanting to trade for stars in their late 20s. I was distinguishing between the two...

[Tension]

When Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, and Garnett joined up in 2007 they were all 30 or older. It's not always a super young team that wins NBA rings. I see the Heat winning it this year and if you look at that teams roster it is pretty much a team of veterans in their late 20's/30's.

Same with the Spurs and the rings they won

Same with the Lakers of recent years

Even that Detroit Piston team in 04 had basically a team of veterans on it in or around 30 years of age.

I don't get where people say that Al Jefferson is too old for this team. Elton Brand was 29 when we signed him to his contract.... Al Jefferson would be two years younger at this juncture and would actually be poised to have a hell of a season here if he was in fact acquired via Iguodala trade.

EB was supposed to help us seriously compete in the east and we had a vastly different roster that had many vets. Our rotation is completely all under 25 except EB and Iggy.

You have to think big picture. Getting Al Jefferson will not give us ANY chance to go to the finals vs Miami, Chicago, and yes even NYK who will have a big season next year with coaching stability and a healthy squad. I'm not saying you don't need vets to win a title, because you definitely do but that's something to worry about later. Right now is about developing your talent and building comraderie as well as continually improving your team through the draft/FA/etc.

[The Sixer Fixer]

Trade for a star in their late 20s? Sure, sign me up. Trade for Al Jefferson in his late 20s? No thanks.

Name me a star in their late 20's that you can acquire for Andre. I'm trying to say it's not realistic what you are suggesting. You can't get a star for Iguodala. You can simply get a similar level player who is around the same age, a draft pick which is a complete crap shoot or a slightly better player who is older.

Where did I say that we can get a star for Iguodala? You're the one who brought up stars in their late 20s, equating me not wanting to trade for Jefferson in his late 20s to me not wanting to trade for stars in their late 20s. I was distinguishing between the two...

We are talking about trading Iguodala and what we will accept in return. Iguodala is 28, so I assume that means you feel he should be traded (obviously already "peaked"). So if Jefferson isn't good value because he's too old, I'm asking for you to give me a name of someone you would deal him for. Someone who could honestly be had and who has the potential to be at least as good as him. This all started by saying Jefferson isn't a smart trade target, so who is in your mind?

[sixerswillrule]

We are talking about trading Iguodala and what we will accept in return. Iguodala is 28, so I assume that means you feel he should be traded (obviously already "peaked"). So if Jefferson isn't good value because he's too old, I'm asking for you to give me a name of someone you would deal him for. Someone who could honestly be had and who that the potential to be at least as good as him. This all started by saying Jefferson isn't a smart trade target, so who is in your mind?

I don't know who is available. Whoever is the best possible young guy that we could acquire, that's who it should be. I just don't see a point in swapping veteran for veteran where an improvement would be marginal at best, if at all.

[The Sixer Fixer]

We are talking about trading Iguodala and what we will accept in return. Iguodala is 28, so I assume that means you feel he should be traded (obviously already "peaked"). So if Jefferson isn't good value because he's too old, I'm asking for you to give me a name of someone you would deal him for. Someone who could honestly be had and who that the potential to be at least as good as him. This all started by saying Jefferson isn't a smart trade target, so who is in your mind?

I don't know who is available. Whoever is the best possible young guy that we could acquire, that's who it should be. I just don't see a point in swapping veteran for veteran where an improvement would be marginal at best, if at all.

And what if there's isn't anyone half way decent? You want a guy who is 24 or under....that's pretty limiting. If anyone falls into that and if half way decent, that team isn't going to be in a rush to move the player. Those guys are also probably much cheaper than Iguodala so it's not likely to be a 1 for 1 and that would make any deal even more tricky. SInce you seem to be mainly concerned with age (for similar level talent - which Andre for Jefferson is), is it not better to move Andre for a guy who is 1 year young vs. not moving him at all. Shoot, if Jefferson isn't the guy you want then at least he's a FA after next year and you would have the option to not bring him back and use that $$ on a younger guys. With Andre having 2 years left, he limits you more cap wise.

[sixerswillrule]

The money argument is stupid because we'll have cap space regardless with Brand gone to go out and sign someone. I'm not trading Iguodala for an expiring contract. Trade him for someone who who will be here in the future, who will continue to improve over the next few years as our other players also continue to improve. We should be able to get someone more than half way decent. I'm not too concerned that we won't. It just depends if that's what this team will do.

[The Sixer Fixer]

The money argument is stupid because we'll have cap space regardless with Brand gone to go out and sign someone. I'm not trading Iguodala for an expiring contract. Trade him for someone who who will be here in the future, who will continue to improve over the next few years as our other players also continue to improve. We should be able to get someone more than half way decent. I'm not too concerned that we won't. It just depends if that's what this team will do.

We may NOT have cap space next year. If they amnesty Brand and use that $$ on FA's this off-season, there may be nothing left next year. Which you would have either way if you had an expiring player. Also, it's widely assumed expiring contracts have more value, so Jefferson might allow you to acquire that "young" player at the deadline next year. I don't think trading for Jefferson eliminates the ability to do exactly what you want us to do with Andre.

I do really wish you would give me an example of some young player who fits the profile you proposed, but since you obviously won't, while at the same time insisting there are guys we can get, I'm going to bow out of the discussion.

[sixerswillrule]

http://www.draftexpress.com//

Any of the top 8, for starters.

[bmyers3317]

This tread has officially been hijacked....can't we keep this tread to question for and post by Sixerfan1976 and do this in the fantasy trade thread.....respectfully.

[Sixerscan]

this is more of a general off season thread than anything. if you just want to see his posts, go here

search.php?author_id=31551&sr=posts

[phillysixed]

EB was supposed to help us seriously compete in the east and we had a vastly different roster that had many vets. Our rotation is completely all under 25 except EB and Iggy.

You have to think big picture. Getting Al Jefferson will not give us ANY chance to go to the finals vs Miami, Chicago, and yes even NYK who will have a big season next year with coaching stability and a healthy squad. I'm not saying you don't need vets to win a title, because you definitely do but that's something to worry about later. Right now is about developing your talent and building comraderie as well as continually improving your team through the draft/FA/etc.

Disagree. I know everyone wants to build a team like the Thunder but its not realistic. Durant fell in their lap. Westbrook was a homerun pick. Ibaka was another homerun at the spot he was taken. Sefolosha I believe came in a trade and Harden was a decent pick. Their GM knows how to spot talent.

Compare that to our squad: Iguodala was a tweener and a good pick who only in the last 3 years showed where he belongs. Holiday has yet to fully develop as a PG, shows flashes. Turner is another tweener who needs Iggy to be traded to develop. Vucevic needs time to develop defensively and as an NBA big.

Not trying to be negative but we have no homerun picks and haven't shown the ability to develop players to their potential. If we want a star player to come here, we've gotta have a good playoff squad + the cap space to convince him Philly is where he's going to be successful and win a title.

Getting Jefferson may not be a boon defensively, but with a coach like Collins pushing him and playing center on a permanent basis (which would help his knees), we could get more out of him. His problem seems like its motivation, not talent. We could draft a PF at #15 and then you would potentially have 3 out of your 5 starters under 25 years of age and none over 28 depending on what they do with Brand. and plenty of cap space going into next summer with Jefferson's deal expiring.

[Sixerscan]

i don't agree that trading for jefferson is the right move, but have to give you props on the well thought out, reasoned post. hope you stick around.

[JordanMars]

this is more of a general off season thread than anything. if you just want to see his posts, go here

search.php?author_id=31551&sr=posts

link doesnt work

[Sixerscan]

worked for me. just find one of his posts and click his name then "search users posts"

maybe this will work better

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=31551

[sixerswillrule]

I believe that non-mods cannot search user posts.