2012 NBA Draft - Part V

[WizarDynasty]

just for novice scouts, there is a huge difference between a two foot jumper and one foot jumper.
Wade is a one foot jumper. Michael Jordan is a one foot jumper. Beal is a two foot jumper.
Its very hard to attack the rim off the dribble jumping off two feet. Beal is a poor one foot jumper which is why he is below the rim player. Just to help further the bare minimum analysis around here and jump start some life into meaningful discussion. Singleton is another example of a two foot jumper.
Two foot jumper get good elevation on their jumpshot but take alot of time to gather themselves. One foot jumper are quick off one foot and get outstanding elevation. Another two foot jumper is Nick Young.
Two foot jumpers usually aren't good at finishing off the dribble in traffic. You give lottery points to players who outstanding one foot jumpers off the dribble.

[dandridge 10]

Its funny how adament some people are on this board about who is the better player out of Beal, MKG and Robinson. Bottom line is nobody on this board knows what type of player Beal, MKG or Robinson will become. Beal could be the next Wade or could be the next Randy Foye. MKG could be the next Gerald Wallace/Shawn Marion or the next Chris Singleton. Robinson could be the next David West or the next Tyler Hansborough/Trevor Booker. Who knows. I recall people knocking Harden coming out of college because he was not "athletic" and could struggle getting to the rim. Turns out they were flat out wrong.

My preference is Beal, Robinson and then MKG in that order only because I think all three have about equal potential/intangibles, but Beal and Robinson would fill a bigger need. But, it wouldn't shock me if MKG was the best out of the three. I'm just glad I don't have to make the decision, because notwithstanding all the "experts" on this board, it is really a crapshoot between the 3 on who is going to be the better player in the long run.

[Benjammin]

^^^
You're right, but it gives us something to do until the actual pick at least. It is indeed a crap-shoot.

[Nivek]

to make blanket statement about the metrics used by a leading edge simulation game is silly. I would try to keep from embarassing myself until i was able to make a solid argument as to why the metrics used in nba2k12 don't related to a players actual ability in real life. show an understanding for categories that used to determine a players rating. So again how many categories is each player rated in would be where i would start before showing my lack of knowledge i am using to draw a solid conclusion like "silly".

You post wisdom.

[doclinkin]

^
I don't see how you draw that conclusion. I'd love to see EG and Teddy take Barnes and Robinson to Dukes, then drive them around town in Limos. Make it as public as possible to bait Charlotte into taking one of them or Cleveland into trading....

Then draft Beal and be done with it.

It's just a gut-feeling I have had based-upon Ernie's previous drafts and what we must come away with after this draft ( more offense) This will probably be our last Top-5 pick for a while and our last shot at drafting a top-10 wing player. Both the Cats and Cavs could take Barnes also.

There's been no evidence that Barnes is the mix. And our front office is very transparent. If EG really loved Barnes, we would all know about it by now. I'd be shocked with Barnes as the pick. Barnes may be a good run & jump athlete but he's not remarkably quick, agile or explosive. Let him get a head start and he can gather speed and finish well above the rim, but in tight quarters that athleticism is NOT on display.

It's either MKG or Beal. We'll kick the tires on Robinson but so far it's been pretty clear to where the front office is leaning.

No way. it makes me more nervous if we never try out Barnes. The team always feebly tries to hide their interest (not mentioning OPec in the recap of that day's workout) commonly drafting players they never work out (Javale, Dom McGuire, maybe Booker though I forget). Not taking a look at Harrison looks like hijinks and shenanigans...

[payitforward]

DR has posted a new mock draft that moves Draymond Green into round 1 and has us taking Festus Ezeli at 32 and Mike Scott at 46 -- after taking MK-G at 3 (TRob going second).

In other words, we take zero shooters -- and pass on a lot of them. The only 2 guards it sees going in round 1 after the lottery are Wroten and Fournier; Jenkins is at 31. But to take Ezeli, we pass on Barton, DLamb, Cunningham, Johnson and English. Not to mention Crowder.

Mike Scott will turn 24 a month from tomorrow and had ankle surgery last year. I can't imagine drafting him.

Does anyone think this mock's Wizards picks in round 2 make any sense at all?

[7-Day Dray]

There's been no evidence that Barnes is the mix. And our front office is very transparent. If EG really loved Barnes, we would all know about it by now. I'd be shocked with Barnes as the pick. Barnes may be a good run & jump athlete but he's not remarkably quick, agile or explosive. Let him get a head start and he can gather speed and finish well above the rim, but in tight quarters that athleticism is NOT on display.

It's either MKG or Beal. We'll kick the tires on Robinson but so far it's been pretty clear to where the front office is leaning.

No way. it makes me more nervous if we never try out Barnes. The team always feebly tries to hide their interest (not mentioning OPec in the recap of that day's workout) commonly drafting players they never work out (Javale, Dom McGuire, maybe Booker though I forget). Not taking a look at Harrison looks like hijinks and shenanigans...

According to BF, we will be working out Barnes on Tuesday, and Drummond on Monday.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Considering our gaping hole at SF, why would you want to draft two shooting guards? I would probably rather role the dice on Barnes over Waiters if I already had Beal.

Yeah, I'm taking Barnes with that second lottery pick if he's still on the board. When you look at his combine numbers and that sports science video featuring Barnes that someone posted a few days ago, it's obvious that he's much a better athlete than we've seen from him thus far. Like you, I think he'd be worth the gamble.

If I had a second pick, after MKG or Beal, I would select Zeller.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Why don't we draft DamIan Lallard?
http://t.co/r5KboUAh

Wow!

Shoots the floater like Tony Parker. Can go off the glass with ease. Can throw it down with one hand or two with authority. Picture perfect form on his jumper with no hitch or hesitation and a nice, high release point. Lillard shoots like Steph Curry.

I think it is quite possible that Lillard comes to the league right away and impresses. I wouldn't have any problem with him being the pick in a trade down scenario.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

And obviously, since this is becoming the top debate in this thread, both will be available and EG will take Barnes.

Probably so, Mizer.

I can't really get enthused this year. I usually hope to hear a name called on draft night and it isn't. A few times the very guys I didn''t want the Wizards to draft are the names they have called. Pecherov, McGee, Young, Singleton, Vesely are among those I dreaded ahead of time before hearing them called as Wizards picks. I posted about Faried for months ahead of the draft. Same thing with Millsap before his draft, and it didn't matter.

Since Davis won't be the pick the way I feel now is just wait and see who EG picks. I don't hate any of the last picks and Vesely turned out to be better than I thought. Singleton at least hit threes, fouled less and was not terrible at the end. After a coaching change, Seraphin has shown skill as a post scorer. So, guys EG drafted have been solid in some ways even if they are not the guys I wanted him to draft. I was happy to hear Booker called, but he's been better than I imagined.

Last season we could have had Leonard and Faried or Brooks and Faried. Oh well.

I like certain players and do not want Harrison Barnes or Perry Jones or Andre Drummond. That said, I am prepared for draft night to come and to hear Barnes called.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Comparing MKG to Marvin Willaims, big gaps in bold.

........

How about a comparison with a guy that was touted as a future lockdown defender last year?

Wingspan
MKG 7'0
Chris Singleton 7'1

Standing Reach
MKG 8'8.5
CS 8'7.5

NS Vert
MKG 32.0
CS 30.5

Max Vert
MKG 35.5
CS 37.5

Bench Press
MKG 6
CS 15

Lane Agility
MKG 11.77
CS 11.33

Sprint
MKG 3.18
CS 3.09

So MKG had an inch advantage in standing reach, and and inch and a half in no step vertical. Singleton tested better in every other category.

This is why I don't even care about the measurable comparisons for the most part.

[Knighthonor]

any word about the MKG workout today?

[Mizerooskie]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI5TVCJuY3s[/youtube]

You'll notice at the 0:30, 0:40, and 1:08 marks (among others) the evidence that Beal is not a one foot jumper. :sarcasm:

[theboomking]

T-Rob and Beal are no more limited physically than MKG is. You seem to be under the impression that MKG is an elite NBA athlete. He's not. The combine testing showed that.

And again, if MKG is so superior defensively to Beal, why did Beal get more steals/40 and the same amount of blocks/40?

Agree about Beal's steals and blocks being a positive. I've watched both kids since HS however, and I think MKG is easily going to post more steals and blocks in the NBA. MKG is going to be a defensive stud.

Combine testing doesn't tell you who is and isn't an elite athlete. I posted numbers earlier in the thread that showed that Beal has Russell Westbrook beat in every category except the sprint. Iguodala didn't post great combine numbers either. MKG will be a excellent NBA athlete, although probably not elite.

Also, he's good at anything that isn't shooting the basketball, consistently beating his defender with dribble penetration in half court-sets, or posting up on offense.

MKG is very good at beating his defender off he dribble. I think the video below is actually very good in highlighting MKG's strengths and weaknesses. Lots of stats obviously ripped from synergy Great numbers in iso defense, P&R defense, at rim defense. Very good offensive numbers in transition and shooting percentage in the post. MKG is otherwise pretty rough offensively
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTOzcSqivEI[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI5TVCJuY3s[/youtube]

You'll notice at the 0:30, 0:40, and 1:08 marks (among others) the evidence that Beal is not a one foot jumper. :sarcasm:

I agree. Too bad Beal can't jump off one foot.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vC81QmG91o[/youtube]

[hands11]

http://www.nba.com/wizards/video/2012/0 ... p4-2128459

Everything about this kid says he is the right choice.

And he is only 18. Very impressive. He will not only be good. He will be a NBA star. Not a Wade commercial star, but a Ray Allen type star. Just a pro. Solid. Humble. Please pick this kid. And he said he is almost 6-5

Not only would I take him with the 3rd pick, I would consider taking him higher.

[payitforward]

Why don't we draft DamIan Lallard?
http://t.co/r5KboUAh

Wow!

Shoots the floater like Tony Parker. Can go off the glass with ease. Can throw it down with one hand or two with authority. Picture perfect form on his jumper with no hitch or hesitation and a nice, high release point. Lillard shoots like Steph Curry.

I think it is quite possible that Lillard comes to the league right away and impresses. I wouldn't have any problem with him being the pick in a trade down scenario.

Yes, he looks great -- but note the opponents. U of Texas Arlington, Montana State.... Still, no question he looks very very good.

[theboomking]

http://www.nba.com/wizards/video/2012/06/14/Beal1mp4-2128459

Everything about this kid says he is the right choice.

And he is only 18. Very impressive. He will not only be good. He will be a NBA star.

I disagree. I like everything about Beal except for his interviews. He sounds smart, but soft. That "I wasn't having fun" comment really grated on me. It is the kind of thing a real p*ssy says to defend their lack of performance. The kind of thing LBJ might say. The "because coach Donovan was on my ***" comment also didn't thrill me. I don't think most people with any mental toughness say that kmind of stuff.

All of that being said, I still think I prefer Beal. I would be okay with MKG as well.

[sfam]

to make blanket statement about the metrics used by a leading edge simulation game is silly. I would try to keep from embarassing myself until i was able to make a solid argument as to why the metrics used in nba2k12 don't related to a players actual ability in real life. show an understanding for categories that used to determine a players rating. So again how many categories is each player rated in would be where i would start before showing my lack of knowledge i am using to draw a solid conclusion like "silly".

WizD, I almost never comment on your posts, or finish reading the long ones, because frankly, I rarely have any idea what you're trying to say. Case in point above. Are you trying to ask Nivek in a not so polite manner if he would explain (yet again) his YODA system? If so, perhaps a simpler method would be, "Hey Nivek, can you explain the basis for your YODA system?" Again, we all love to be snarky on occasion, but its usually a good idea to write snark in a way that people understand - I would suggest complete sentences as a start. Personally, this would help me to understand better how "show an understanding for categories that used to determine a players rating" relates to the statements prior to and afterwards. It might also be a good idea to capture the portion you're responding to above as a reply (feel free to cut out the extraneous parts).

Just a thought - feel free to ignore if you like, as chances are I'll continue to ignore your posts if you don't.

Are we comparing prospect scoring ability inside or ability to shoot off the dribble? I see no real analysis of prospects here just group think blather. if a perimeter that we are rating as a top 3 prospect isn't above average at the dribbling moves in this image, maybe he shouldn't go top 3 since he is a perimeter player. None of these discussion are going on. These are true highlevel discussions that directly relate to basket. Group think always dulls the brain what are a top prospects rating now in each of these categories and more importantly what will it be 3 years from now. Which of these categories is more important for deep playoff success based on each position.
http://spawnkill.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/my-player.JPG if you want to see all categories

Assuming you actually believe what you post (I'm going to think positively and think you're just trying to be an imaginative troll) - that what's necessary for game designers to make executable game dynamics that allow for customized avatar movements in a basketball video game environment has applicability to real life - this still does not negate the need for basic communication skills. Case in point - questions usually end with something that looks like this - "?".

Said another way, while group think may dull the brain, the inability to communicate effectively atrophies thought entirely.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Why don't we draft DamIan Lallard?
http://t.co/r5KboUAh

Wow!

Shoots the floater like Tony Parker. Can go off the glass with ease. Can throw it down with one hand or two with authority. Picture perfect form on his jumper with no hitch or hesitation and a nice, high release point. Lillard shoots like Steph Curry.

I think it is quite possible that Lillard comes to the league right away and impresses. I wouldn't have any problem with him being the pick in a trade down scenario.

Yes, he looks great -- but note the opponents. U of Texas Arlington, Montana State.... Still, no question he looks very very good.

Very true, payitforward. The level of competition matters. Historically, some players from small programs have done well.

Pippen went to Central Arkansas and Rodman went to Southeastern Oklahoma State. More recently, I remember discussing Millsap's competition at Louisiana Tech and Faried's at Morehead State. With respect to the last two guys, I looked at their numbers vs big programs. I had absolutely no doubts about Faried because he really played well against the likes of Louisville, Kentucky, and Kansas. In Millsap's case he rebounded so well over time and he blocked shots and stole the ball, too, with such overwhelming numbers I felt he would be very good. I was able to extrapolate and predict success with both those guys.

Lillard, however, I'm not so sure based on his competition or lack thereof. I've trusted scouts and video. Truth told, Damian Lillard is making a huge leap in competition. Here is his 2011-2012 game log.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketb ... an-lillard

Weber State upset UNC years ago and they sent Eddie Gill to the NBA. This past season the Big Sky was not that competitive. Montana was 15-1 and Weber 14-2 in conference play. Lillard's team got beat out by 19 by the Grizzlies in their conference tourney to end their season. Montana went to the NCAAs and got destroyed by 24 in a lost to Wisconsin. Lillard only played two tough non-conferenc opponents. Cal shut him down to 4-17 and 16 points. However, he had 41 against St Mary's 27-6 NCAA tourney team.

payitforward, if I were looking at level of competion I would say Reggie Hamilton played in a tougher conference and he led the nation in scoring. His accomplishments on paper look better than Lillard's. Lillard is going to have to do like Gilbert or Westbrook and make the transition from college scorer to NBA PG. I believe Lillard has the shot and the ability to be a very good player, but he will be a combo guard. I am a little concerned about his competition because the NBA will be more physical and his credentials are NOT that great on paper. I think he played well against big schools in the past though.

I think the safe bet at 3 is to stick with Beal or MKG, but Lillard is such a GREAT shooter that he is very intriguing to me.

The one thing is he might be a starting PG in the NBA before too long if he is as good as many believe.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

http://www.nba.com/wizards/video/2012/06/14/Beal1mp4-2128459

Everything about this kid says he is the right choice.

And he is only 18. Very impressive. He will not only be good. He will be a NBA star.

I disagree. I like everything about Beal except for his interviews. He sounds smart, but soft. That "I wasn't having fun" comment really grated on me. It is the kind of thing a real p*ssy says to defend their lack of performance. The kind of thing LBJ might say. The "because coach Donovan was on my ***" comment also didn't thrill me. I don't think most people with any mental toughness say that kmind of stuff.

All of that being said, I still think I prefer Beal. I would be okay with MKG as well.

theboomking, it really is telling to listen to the interviews.

Chris Singleton talked about coming in with a chip on his shoulder to prove his doubters wrong after the draft. MKG says the Wizards are a playoff team with him at SF. I don't remember what Wall said prior to the draft. I guess it all depends on how self aware the kids are and how good they turn out.

The interview I saw on DX really turned my off on Perry Jones. He came off as defensive and talked about teammates past in ways that said to me he doesn't accept responsibility or have fire to him. MKG didn't come off as articulate or bright to me. The SCARY thing is Harrison Barnes strikes me as extremely bright, extremely polite, and very self aware. He sounded hurt by the criticisms he has received but very confident in his ability. You know who he reminds me of in interviews?

Kwame Brown

Before Kwame became a Wizards he was really a great interviewee. He seemed competitive and confident in himself. Barnes has a charisma about him. So did 18-yr old Kwame, before failure and pressure set in, and before he started making NBA money.

I don't know what to make of each interview other than it can show something about a player's mental make up.