SixerFan1976 Offseason Thread (Update Pg 73)

Post #1221 » by **Sixerscan** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:45 am

oh wow, guess i should pay more attention at the mod meetings.

in that case, we'll try to update the last page that sf76 posted on in the title

The Sixer Fixer · Post #1222 » by **The Sixer Fixer** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:46 am

Yeah, I have never been able to use the search option on this site.

ExplosionsInDaSky · Post #1223 » by **ExplosionsInDaSky** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:48 am

I just don't see why so many of you were on board for the Elton Brand signing yet a lot of you are opposed to acquiring Al Jefferson... Is it because of the failed experiment with Brand? In my opinion Brand was a bigger risk back then as opposed to Jefferson now. I don't see why it can't atleast be an option to consider..

freshie2 · Post #1224 » by **freshie2** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:49 am

You need to be a moderator...

Less than 2 weeks to go...if the somehow get a top 10 pick (Iguodala trade) and keep 15, what is best combo they could get? If LeoNard is there, do you take him and the Moultrie@ 15? Leonard and a SF replacement like Harkless? Does anyone take Perry Jones?

I would be very optimistic if the were aggressive in moving into the top 10' could nab Leonard, and the get Moultrie or Jones @ 15...I know I'm in the minority, but I'd be fine If the really rolled the dice on Batum, setting up a long/versatile starting 5 of Jrue/ET/Batum/Moultrie or Jones/Leonard.

Post #1225 » by **Sixerscan** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:51 am

ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:I just don't see why so many of you were on board for the Elton Brand signing yet a lot of you are opposed to acquiring Al Jefferson... Is it because of the failed experiment with Brand? In my opinion Brand was a bigger risk back then as opposed to Jefferson now. I don't see why it can't atleast be an option to consider..

a healthy brand was much much better than jefferson. brand was a monster. even with no athleticism left he's still a significantly better defender than jefferson.

i, along with most people, assumed that ed stefanski wouldn't invest $18 million a year in someone that was no longer healthy. we were wrong.

freshie2 · Post #1226 » by **freshie2** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:04 am

I remember being at the beach when the Brand news was breaking...was pretty confident thy were going to sign Smith instead, but was resigned to the fact that Brand was a 'safe' move. Seems all the Sixers 'safe' moves (Speights, Turner, even Carney) aren't the most productive, while 'upside' picks like Jrue, Thad, and even Lou have turned out to be more productive players.

Mik317 · Post #1227 » by **Mik317** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:05 am

freshie2 wrote:You need to be a moderator...

Less than 2 weeks to go...if the somehow get a top 10 pick (Iguodala trade) and keep 15, what is best combo they could get? If LeoNard is there, do you take him and the Moultrie@ 15? Leonard and a SF replacement like Harkless? Does anyone take Perry Jones?

I would be very optimistic if the were aggressive in moving into the top 10' could nab Leonard, and the get Moultrie or Jones @ 15...I know I'm in the minority, but I'd be fine If the really rolled the dice on Batum, setting up a long/versatile starting 5 of Jrue/ET/Batum/Moultrie or Jones/Leonard.

I'd bet it would be Ross for sure at 15. But The best deal would be to get a big and a shooter.

Bigs include

Leonard
Sullinger
Jones (both)
Moultrie
Zeller
Henson

Swings include

Waiters
Rivers
Ross
Miller
Lamb (both).
Harkless.

Any combo of those guys would be a good draft (unless it's Henson and Rivers, then the board will cut themselves....those two see mto be the two prospects from each group that is the least liked).

If we trade up I'd expect it to be Waiters and a Jones.

freshie2 · Post #1228 » by **freshie2** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:09 am

I'd take Ross over Waiters...love Ross's length for a SG. Didn't put him just b/c it moves ET to SF which I don't like.

freshie2 · Post #1229 » by **freshie2** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:10 am

Can Terrence Jones defend the longer PFs? I get the versatility, but can he do any one thing great?

Mik317 · Post #1230 » by **Mik317** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:21 am

freshie2 wrote:I'd take Ross over Waiters...love Ross's length for a SG. Didn't put him just b/c it moves ET to SF which I don't like.

The two spots we could trade up to are IMO GS at 7 and Toronto at 8 (NO at 10 is an option but I doubt they'd want Okafor or Ariza back). Drummond and Beal are probably gone by 7 (although Beal could be sitting there at 7 if Portland passes on him for Lillard). So Lamb would technically be the bst player on the board. I'm nto sure how high they are on him and as SF said we are supposedly high on Waiters. I'd take Lamb over Waiters but who knows.

I think we trade up for either a guard or Leonard, tho. Everyone else would be who ever if left at 15. Ideally it would be Beal at 7 and Leonard(or Moultrie I'd settle for him over Zeller and Henson, Sullinger i'm not too sure on but we seem to be looking for athletes down low, that kinda disqualifies him) at 15.

At "worst", I would like Lamb and JonesIII.

Of course we will get Zeller at 15 with a "we were surprised he was still there yo" and all cut ourselves to sleep.

Post #1231 » by **Sixerscan** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:23 am

Sixerscan wrote:
ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:I just don't see why so many of you were on board for the Elton Brand signing yet a lot of you are opposed to acquiring Al Jefferson... Is it because of the failed experiment with Brand? In my opinion Brand was a bigger risk back then as opposed to Jefferson now. I don't see why it can't atleast be an option to consider..

a healthy brand was much much better than jefferson. brand was a monster. even with no athleticism left he's still a significantly better defender than jefferson.

i, along with most people, assumed that ed stefanski wouldn't invest $18 million a year in someone that was no longer healthy. we were wrong.

adding to this. signing elton brand also didn't involve us trading andre iguodala

Do the Jrue · Post #1232 » by **Do the Jrue** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:52 am

Al Jefferson would be a beast in the East. Honestly, the two power forwards that we're talking about (Gasol and Jefferson) are the two most skilled offensive PF's in the entire league. And Jefferson just turned 27 this year. He's probably in the prime of his career right now and a lot of his game is based on his footwork, like Duncan, so he'll be a very good player well into his 30's. If we can make a straight up swap of Iguodala for Jefferson I'd say we should definitely make that trade. Would be a good deal for both sides. Obviously Jefferson doesn't make us a title contender over night but I think he improves us over the team currently with Iguodala. He's a legit go-to 20 and 10 scorer. Don't even mention the Brand signing in comparison to trading for Jefferson. While Brand was an All-Star twice in his career before signing with us and was only a couple years older than Jefferson is right now he ruptured his achilles THE YEAR BEFORE WE SIGNED HIM to that massive deal. He made his career off being an undersized PF that used his ATHLETICISM and long arms to compensate for his size. Jefferson is a couple inches taller and about 40 pounds bigger than him. He only missed 5 games this past year, played every game the year before that and only missed 6 games the year before that....so he's not injury prone.

Jefferson would be the best player on this team right now even with Iguodala, and we damn sure wouldn't be able to get a PF like him in the near future without trading Iggy for him.

Sixerlover · Post #1233 » by **Sixerlover** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:13 am

I hate to rain on the "youth" parade, but whoever made this point before was correct. Unless you guys either believe that ET or Jrue will morph into a superstar in the near future, or that we'll be so terrible with the young guys that we will acquire a top 3 pick in a future draft, going young and "letting them grow" is essentially doing the same thing that acquiring Gasol or Jefferson would do, it is just extending the years of mediocrity.

Teams normally don't grow over time into title contending teams unless they get a superstar. If they are a young squad that is "growing together" that is good enough not to be bad, but bad enough not to be good they become the Atlanta Hawks or Portland Trailblazers of the years prior to the Roy injury. I really don't think adding Batum and Ibaka to Jrue + Turner = championship any time in the future as those 4 guys being the feature players. Players top out, and get big contracts, thus limiting other moves.

Also, I don't think the "be young, have cap space, acquire superstar in free agency" method works outside of 2k either. I can't remember a undisputed superstar leaving to join a young team that has a boatload of cap space. That would be LeBron joining the 2010 Clippers or the 2010 Kings.

A team like Philly needs to be competitive, the fans need to support the team, and we need to get some national notoriety for a superstar to join an already good core when he is a FA. I might just be incredibly negative because my direct deposit from work doesn't come through until tomorrow, but I just needed to get this off my chest :lol:

Do the Jrue · Post #1234 » by **Do the Jrue** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:32 am

It sucks Lavoy Allen can't be two inches taller...he could be our Perkins and we wouldn't have to worry about atleast one of our starting front court spots. Right now his career is probably going to be in a Brandon Bass super-sub type of role. Hopefully Vucevic can develop into a solid starter.

Chamberlainship · Post #1235 » by **Chamberlainship** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:35 am

I agree with sixerlover. The team needs to stay competitive and hope they can make some deals to take them from average to good. One approach is using our spare parts or salary cap exceptions to add a useful veteran, then trading brand and some sweetener to acquire another good player that's worn out his welcome somewhere. Of course there's other approaches and we need to be flexible if something presents itself.

freshie2 · Post #1236 » by **freshie2** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:08 pm

If it is al Jeff and another expiring deal, it is really a low risk deal...he will be productive, and if you aren't happy with him long term, he walks after a year. My preference is getting into the top 10, but Al isn't a horrible addition.

PhilasFinest · Post #1237 » by **PhilasFinest** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:06 pm

freshie2 wrote:If it is al Jeff and another expiring deal, it is really a low risk deal...he will be productive, and if you aren't happy with him long term, he walks after a year. My preference is getting into the top 10, but Al isn't a horrible addition.

This.

We would all like to get a top 5 pick for Iguodala, but it's a very low probability in all realism.
Al Jefferson has his flaws, just like Iggy. But he is one of the most talented offensive big men in the league and still young at 27.

With Turner still a ? , we will never really know with Iguodala in the lineup.
Bringing in a legit Offensive option in Jeff, paired with a shooting wing should give ET n Jrue enough to show what there capable of doing.

If it works, great. If not, at least we know What pieces are worth keeping and can begin rebuilding.

The Sixer Fixer · Post #1238 » by **The Sixer Fixer** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:29 pm

Sixerlover wrote:I hate to rain on the "youth" parade, but whoever made this point before was correct. Unless you guys either believe that ET or Jrue will morph into a superstar in the near future, or that we'll be so terrible with the young guys that we will acquire a top 3 pick in a future draft, going young and "letting them grow" is essentially doing the same thing that acquiring Gasol or Jefferson would do, it is just extending the years of mediocrity.

Teams normally don't grow over time into title contending teams unless they get a superstar. If they are a young squad that is "growing together" that is good enough not to be bad, but bad enough not to be good they become the Atlanta Hawks or Portland Trailblazers of the years prior to the Roy injury. I really don't think adding Batum and Ibaka to Jrue + Turner = championship any time in the future as those 4 guys being the feature players. Players top out, and get big contracts, thus limiting other moves.

Also, I don't think the "be young, have cap space, acquire superstar in free agency" method works outside of 2k either. I can't remember a undisputed superstar leaving to join a young team that has a boatload of cap space. That would be LeBron joining the 2010 Clippers or the 2010 Kings.

A team like Philly needs to be competitive, the fans need to support the team, and we need to get some national notoriety for a superstar to join an already good core when he is a FA. I might just be incredibly negative because my direct deposit from work doesn't come through until tomorrow, but I just needed to get this off my chest

I agree with everything you said. The only thing the could be debated is, can we get that star in this draft by trading Iguodala? I think that's what the "go/stay young" people will debate.

Personally, I'm not sure how I feel about that path because I really question the star power in this draft. A lot of good, but not great players is what I see (basically, the type of guys we already have). It seems every guy has at least 1 major question about him. Whether it's their "motor" or "size" or "defense" or whatever, there's not many sure things in this draft beyond Davis. For me, I would probably deal Iguodala for a shot at Beal since I really like his game. I definitely wouldn't more him for a shot at MKG, Sullinger, Lamb, Waiters, Leonard, Henson, etc. The "maybe's" would be Drummond, Robinson and Barnes.

You are right that we are stuck in the middle of the pack. So your options are...

1. Hope someone here turns into a star
2. Pray you win the lottery if you miss the playoffs (extremely unlikely as we would be in the 12-14 area).
3. Build the youth up some (as we have) and package 2-3 of those guys for a star in a bad situation (like Howard if you could convince him to sign).
4. Trade for a high draft pick and cross fingers that guy turns into a star (again, unlikely unless you get into top 3 in any given year).
5. Acquire aging veterans who will make you a little better and MAYBE put you in position to attract a star in FA.
6. Convince a star in FA to come here and be the missing piece.

Honestly, I don't like the odds on any of those 5 options. Being in the middle of the pack is truly the worst place to be, but as you said, we are sorta stuck there because our core is good enough to not be one of the worst teams. So unless you decide to dump all the assets to gamble on someone like Howard (basically do what the Nets have done), it's not going to change any time soon.

Edit: Added option 6 above...as I guess that's a possibility, but how often has that ever happened? Especially in today's era of "build a big 2 or 3".

Do the Jrue · Post #1239 » by **Do the Jrue** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:17 pm

I think Drummond is the only high risk/extremely high reward player in this draft that we could trade up for potentially with Iggy and #15. At worst he's DeAndre Jordan (which I think he'll be better than from the start) and at best he's Dwight Howard. I don't think it's actually that high risk because we get our center of the future with ridiculous measurables and unlimited potential regardless. But that's pretty much the only type of deal that could potentially land us a big time star in this draft. Beal and Barnes I think will be really good players but moreso in 2009 Ray Allen and Luol Deng roles. Both of them would just keep us in Hawks territory.

SparksFly87 · Post #1240 » by **SparksFly87** » Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:35 pm

Do the Jrue wrote:I think Drummond is the only high risk/extremely high reward player in this draft that we could trade up for potentially with Iggy and #15. At worst he's DeAndre Jordan (which I think he'll be better than from the start) and at best he's Dwight Howard. I don't think it's actually that high risk because we get our center of the future with ridiculous measurables and unlimited potential regardless. But that's pretty much the only type of deal that could potentially land us a big time star in this draft. Beal and Barnes I think will be really good players but moreso in 2009 Ray Allen and Luol Deng roles. Both of them would just keep us in Hawks territory.

I I say Andre Drummond all costs no excuse!