2012 NBA Draft - Part V

[dobrojim]

Considering our gaping hole at SF, why would you want to draft two shooting guards? I would probably rather role the dice on Barnes over Waiters if I already had Beal.

Yeah, I'm taking Barnes with that second lottery pick if he's still on the board. When you look at his combine numbers and that sports science video featuring Barnes that someone posted a few days ago, it's obvious that he's much a better athlete than we've seen from him thus far. Like you, I think he'd be worth the gamble.

If I had a second pick, after MKG or Beal, I would select Zeller.

I'm going to be stubborn and agree with you, T-rex arms not withstanding.
I think he projects to be Nick Collison kind of player and a lot of teams would
love to have someone like that.

edit to add - Waiters is another guy I would be looking hard at

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Its funny how adament some people are on this board about who is the better player out of Beal, MKG and Robinson. Bottom line is nobody on this board knows what type of player Beal, MKG or Robinson will become. Beal could be the next Wade or could be the next Randy Foye. MKG could be the next Gerald Wallace/Shawn Marion or the next Chris Singleton. Robinson could be the next David West or the next Tyler Hansborough/Trevor Booker. Who knows. I recall people knocking Harden coming out of college because he was not "athletic" and could struggle getting to the rim. Turns out they were flat out wrong.

My preference is Beal, Robinson and then MKG in that order only because I think all three have about equal potential/intangibles, but Beal and Robinson would fill a bigger need. But, it wouldn't shock me if MKG was the best out of the three. I'm just glad I don't have to make the decision, because notwithstanding all the "experts" on this board, it is really a crapshoot between the 3 on who is going to be the better player in the long run.

+1 although I sorta disagree about which of TRob/MKG fills a bigger need. You say
TRob who I think we can agree will be a 4. I think between the 3 and 4, we have a
bigger hole to fill or put another way, more room to improve, at the 3. I also think
MKG, a 3, probably has higher ceiling whereas TRob has a higher floor than MKG.

I really hope we end up with Beal. I think he will be an ideal running mate to
Wall in the medium to long term future ie 3-5 years.

so with Beal, MKG and TRob projecting as a 2, 3, and 4 respectively, I think the
need based valuation is the same order, 2, 3 then 4. TRob's best asset is rebounding
which is a definite need. But Beal could actually help address that from the backcourt.

I think your essential point though about it being a crapshoot is dead on. We won't know
for a while who was right. I feel the same about Vesely right now. I think it's quite possible
that in 2-4 years, 3-4 teams might be wondering why they passed on him. He's got
great intangibles and instincts and he plays really hard. Just like MKG.

jim, I feel the same way you do. Between the three for all the reasons you said I prefer Beal.

The other thing I believe people are not paying as much attention to is that Beal and MKG are still 18. They are two years younger than Robinson, and I think that is significant because they have some serious room for growth. Even Wall was a 19-year old freshman. He is three years older than Beal and MKG. Robinson is closer to Wall's age than to Beal and MKG. If I were picking, I definitely would choose one of them and POSSIBLY even Drummond over MKG (because I would trade Drummond to another team). As much as I know Robinson will be an animal on the backboards I don't think he's near the same caliber of player as Faried. Robinson is not super efficient scoring as Boozer was at Duke. I don't know that he has the same motor--in fact I think he does not -- as Millsap. What I see is a real nice player who is not great in Robinson. I do not see Thomas Robinson as a significantly better player than Booker per se.

I could be wrong and Robinson could be closer to Amare Stoudemire-like than I see right now. That is possible, and I am anxious to see how he plays in the NBA. I just wouldn't pick him over Beal and MKG. Also, Zeller is one year older than Robinson and regardless of how soft Zeller appears to play at times I have a real good feeling about Tyler's NBA potential. He is more skilled than Thomas Robinson IMO.

[dobrojim]

Wanna take bets on Vesely's shots falling this year? Ves has playing pro-ball since he was 16, we've seen the extent on his game -nice, hustle/energy player with no offensive game.

I agree that it remains to be seen how much his shot may improve
but Ves' offensive rebounding and his passing are both valuable
offensive skills so I disagree that he has 'no offensive game'.

I think Ves has a reasonable chance to shoot better too.
It ain't like his stroke is broken. Reps will lead to confidence.
He can at least be average which may be good enough given
what else he brings to the table.

[jivelikenice]

Wanna take bets on Vesely's shots falling this year? Ves has playing pro-ball since he was 16, we've seen the extent on his game -nice, hustle/energy player with no offensive game.

I agree that it remains to be seen how much his shot may improve
but Ves' offensive rebounding and his passing are both valuable
offensive skills so I disagree that he has 'no offensive game'.

I think Ves has a reasonable chance to shoot better too.
It ain't like his stroke is broken. Reps will lead to confidence.
He can at least be average which may be good enough given
what else he brings to the table.

Ves actually has a good shooting stroke. I've seen him at shoot around and the dude doesn't miss. I think that's why Wittman was on him to be aggressive and willing to take shots by the end of the season.

[jivelikenice]

Pass on MKG and you may be passing on drafting an Igoudala/G. Wallace type player. Pass on Beal and you may be passing on drafting a Wade/Harden type player.

+1

Wade? I've been coming around on Beal but I don't see anything about his game that reminds me of Wade. Wade is a top 10 player in the league with an uncanny ability to get to the hoop. Beal admittedly has said he has to work on his dribble game. I can't see how you can compare him to Wade given that his dribble drive game is a work in progress. Wade also had nearly 3 inches in wingspan, 2 inches on standing vertical, 2/10 of a second on the sprint, and 4/10 of a second on the lane agility drill on Beal

If you're going to say Beal is a Wade type, then lets call MKG a Pippen type.

[Knighthonor]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPiGu8pWwLA[/youtube]

we get a look at Drummond on Monday

I say he is good. But for a number 3 pick, he doesnt seem much of a upgrade from Sheraphin.

seem kinda bad for a Wizards pick. the Wizards need to get something that is a big change to the roster. the Wizards need shooters, simple as that. Thatst he biggest impact on this team. KS seem very undertrated to me. He should have started next to Mcgee from the start IMO.

[closg00]

Wanna take bets on Vesely's shots falling this year? Ves has playing pro-ball since he was 16, we've seen the extent on his game -nice, hustle/energy player with no offensive game.

I agree that it remains to be seen how much his shot may improve
but Ves' offensive rebounding and his passing are both valuable
offensive skills so I disagree that he has 'no offensive game'.

I think Ves has a reasonable chance to shoot better too.
It ain't like his stroke is broken. Reps will lead to confidence.
He can at least be average which may be good enough given
what else he brings to the table.

Ves actually has a good shooting stroke. I've seen him at shoot around and the dude doesn't miss. I think that's why Wittman was on him to be aggressive and willing to take shots by the end of the season.

Ves will shoot all-day in practice, but when it's game-time, he won't shoot. View his Euro games, he does the same-thing, it's the way that his game has developed. Also, for 7-footer, he won't post-up, even against guards. Let's see if he has added anything to his game in SL.

[Mizerooskie]

Pass on MKG and you may be passing on drafting an Igoudala/G. Wallace type player. Pass on Beal and you may be passing on drafting a Wade/Harden type player.

+1

Wade? I've been coming around on Beal but I don't see anything about his game that reminds me of Wade. Wade is a top 10 player in the league with an uncanny ability to get to the hoop. Beal admittedly has said he has to work on his dribble game. I can't see how you can compare him to Wade given that his dribble drive game is a work in progress. Wade also had nearly 3 inches in wingspan, 2 inches on standing vertical, 2/10 of a second on the sprint, and 4/10 of a second on the lane agility drill on Beal

If you're going to say Beal is a Wade type, then lets call MKG a Pippen type.

Wade wasn't a top 10 player in the league after his freshman year at Marquette. He wasn't one until his third year in the league.

[dobrojim]

Pass on MKG and you may be passing on drafting an Igoudala/G. Wallace type player. Pass on Beal and you may be passing on drafting a Wade/Harden type player.

+1

Wade? I've been coming around on Beal but I don't see anything about his game that reminds me of Wade. Wade is a top 10 player in the league with an uncanny ability to get to the hoop. Beal admittedly has said he has to work on his dribble game. I can't see how you can compare him to Wade given that his dribble drive game is a work in progress. Wade also had nearly 3 inches in wingspan, 2 inches on standing vertical, 2/10 of a second on the sprint, and 4/10 of a second on the lane agility drill on Beal

If you're going to say Beal is a Wade type, then lets call MKG a Pippen type.

In my haste, I did not make clear. Stylistically, Beal may not be much like either Harden
or Wade. But as an up and coming SG in the Assoc, his ceiling may approach their's
although in Wade's case, maybe Harden's too, that's putting an awful lot of expectation
on a youngin.

[dobrojim]

Ves will shoot all-day in practice, but when it's game-time, he won't shoot. View his Euro games, he does the same-thing, it's the way that his game has developed. Also, for 7-footer, he won't post-up, even against guards. Let's see if he has added anything to his game in SL.

Players that don't shoot much can still be very effective, Rondo and Rodman come
to mind as completely different examples of that. Vesely could eventually become
his own example of someone like that.

I really like the way Ves passes the ball both to start breaks and in the half court.
That said, it would be most helpful to the Wizards if the player who ultimately shoots,
was a knock-down shooter.

[dobrojim]

the only reason to draft Drummond would be to trade him to obtain
additional asset(s) beyond the player who we actually might want.

29% FT shooter says it all for me. He ain't Shaq so he can't get away with that.

[Earth2Ted]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPiGu8pWwLA[/youtube]

we get a look at Drummond on Monday

Those are some impressive clips of Drummond- he's clearly worked on his jumper compared to where it was with UConn (see the Draftexpress scouting report).

You can see why he's one of the few guys in the draft that might have a higher absolute ceiling than Anthony Davis.

If I were GM I'd probably swing for the fences and draft him- and then see if I could trade for a low 1st round pick and get a shooter there.

[TGW]

I wouldn't touch Drummond with a 10 foot pole. He just looks lazy and has poor body language. Pass.

[Knighthonor]

Wanna take bets on Vesely's shots falling this year? Ves has playing pro-ball since he was 16, we've seen the extent on his game -nice, hustle/energy player with no offensive game.

I am confused about JVes. He was a pro in Euro, so why is he so broken in the NBA?

[Dat2U]

Please stop with the Beal/Wade comparisons! It's just laughable. Why don't I just compare MKG to MJ then since we can bring up any random comparison to a star to fit our argument?

[Knighthonor]

Please stop with the Beal/Wade comparisons! It's just laughable. Why don't I just compare MKG to MJ then since we can bring up any random comparison to a star to fit our argument?

Rule 101: never use MJ as an example during a Wizards discussion.

[Knighthonor]

what concern me is that if the Wizards draft MKG, they would be more forced to rely on other team's defense not playing well in the paint, since the Wizards still wont have shooters to open up the lanes.
With a MKG, Wall, Singleton in the wing, why would teams need to defend the 3 point- midrange? just stay in the paint, and they defeat themselves? thats been the wizards problem all year.

from Nick to Crawford. its the same situation.

[Mizerooskie]

Please stop with the Beal/Wade comparisons! It's just laughable. Why don't I just compare MKG to MJ then since we can bring up any random comparison to a star to fit our argument?

Well, you've yet to provide justification as to why it's laughable, so there's really no reason to stop.

But it's cool, continue disparaging others without providing any evidence.

[truwizfan4evr]

I really hope we Draft Thomas Robinson. He's first on my list and then it's Beal. I just think Robinson is more nba ready then MKG and Beal.

[Ruzious]

Please stop with the Beal/Wade comparisons! It's just laughable. Why don't I just compare MKG to MJ then since we can bring up any random comparison to a star to fit our argument?

I've seen more MKG to Pippen comps - which are just as ridiculous as the Beal to Wade comps.