Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Damian Lillard (POR)

[OAKLEY_2]

When looking at a prospect and their ability to maximize potential I'm much more inclined to go with the guy who has a resume of improvement. When looking at where the ceiling of that potential will lead I look at the physical attributes of the player. Lillard has a freakish wing span great verticle and deft ball control with both hands while the change of gears and explosiveness to lead me to believe his ceiling is very high.

I think with him his advantage is his strong reputation for being a very hard worker. I would say Lamb's wingspan at 7'4 is the more freakish of the 2. We are in a spot where we are likely to get a starter or at worst a 6th man. In that sense who is the best fit does actually come into play. Only the Raps brass have an idea of what other moves are planned. Those plans might favour Lillard, Lamb or Waiters.

[fredericklove]

Lamb PER up up 1.6, Lillard up 7.6 y1, up 9.2 yr2. See the improvement gap?

Lamb eff/40 down 0.1, Lillard up 4.5 y1, up 7 yr2.

Lamb pnts/poss up 0.04, Lillard up 0.13 y1, up 0.06 yr2

Lamb to/poss up 0.01, Lillard down 0.06 yr1, down 0.03 yr2

Lamb TS% up 0.02, Lillard up 0.02 yr 1, up 0.05 yr 2.

Look Lamb had an excellent freshman year but didn't make a major step forward in his soph. year while Lillard made HUGE steps forward in every year.

When looking at a prospect and their ability to maximize potential I'm much more inclined to go with the guy who has a resume of improvement. When looking at where the ceiling of that potential will lead I look at the physical attributes of the player. Lillard has a freakish wing span great verticle and deft ball control with both hands while the change of gears and explosiveness to lead me to believe his ceiling is very high.


So yah if you know of a prospect who improved as much as Lillard did lets see those numbers. Until then my claim that his improvement is unmatched is both valid and relevant.

This doesn't many any sense to prove lamb didn't improve because all you doing is comparing the improvement gap between lamb and lillard and cherry picking particular stats oh lillard has higher % plus than lamb SO therefore lamb HAS NOT improved from yr 1 to yr 2. Like what are you doing? U OK man?

[cdel00]

Seriously?

I didn't cherry pick the stats. I used efficiency stats dude to show you improvement.

That's it just improvement

Lillard's improvement is astounding, I can't say the same for Lamb.

[DG88]

When looking at a prospect and their ability to maximize potential I'm much more inclined to go with the guy who has a resume of improvement. When looking at where the ceiling of that potential will lead I look at the physical attributes of the player. Lillard has a freakish wing span great verticle and deft ball control with both hands while the change of gears and explosiveness to lead me to believe his ceiling is very high.

I think with him his advantage is his strong reputation for being a very hard worker. I would say Lamb's wingspan at 7'4 is the more freakish of the 2. We are in a spot where we are likely to get a starter or at worst a 6th man. In that sense who is the best fit does actually come into play. Only the Raps brass have an idea of what other moves are planned. Those plans might favour Lillard, Lamb or Waiters.

Lamb at the combine had a 6'11 wingspan not 7'4

[fredericklove]

Seriously?

I didn't cherry pick the stats. I used efficiency stats dude to show you improvement.

That's it just improvement

Lillard's improvement is astounding, I can't say the same for Lamb.

Again, u said lamb scares u because he made no improvement. So u decided to use another player as comparison and use that to jump to conclusion and say you see, lamb didn't improve. That's outrageously bias.

[DG88]

Seriously?

I didn't cherry pick the stats. I used efficiency stats dude to show you improvement.

That's it just improvement

Lillard's improvement is astounding, I can't say the same for Lamb.

Again, u said lamb scares u because he made no improvement. So u decided to use another player as comparison and use that to jump to conclusion and say you see, lamb didn't improve. That's outrageously bias.

Both players made improvements through their years in college. The difference here is that more was expected of Lamb, he was suppose to lead that UConn team, which he failed at doing. That can be attributed to Napier and Boatwright hogging the ball but Lamb's assertiveness just wasn't there. In Lillard's case he didn't have the spotlight on him like Lamb did but he improved none the less even though he was in a smaller conference and had to shoulder the offensive load all by himself. Either way I'd be happy with either player. Both still have upside, Lamb might have a bit more because he's younger. Lillard has proven that he's a hard worker and always wants to perfect the weaknesses in his game. You really can't go wrong with either prospect.

[Fenris-77]

18 & 5 on 48% from the field is disappointing for a SG?

Strawman, right there. Being a Lamb fan you know very well what people thought disappointing about his sophomore year, yet you chose not to acknowledge the fact and toss out a couple of stats that have little or no bearing on my point instead. I can describe to you exactly why that's a strawman fallacy if you like, but I think you already know.

Anyway, I wasn't actually looking to haggle over rhetoric, just keep things focused on my point for a moment, which is that there were legitimately disappointing things about Lamb's play last year. Or, more specifically, that there is a public school of thought to that effect, and that school of though has a lot of influence over exactly how people think about Lamb.

Why make that point in the Lillard thread? Because Lillard doesn't have the same kind of issues as a pick. You can knock conference play all you like, but that only gets you so far (an argument we've had ad nauseum in this thread).

[cdel00]

Seriously?

I didn't cherry pick the stats. I used efficiency stats dude to show you improvement.

That's it just improvement

Lillard's improvement is astounding, I can't say the same for Lamb.

Again, u said lamb scares u because he made no improvement. So u decided to use another player as comparison and use that to jump to conclusion and say you see, lamb didn't improve. That's outrageously bias.

Rofl that's awfully weak Fred.

I ain't jumping to conclusions I'm simply showing you the stats that back my original claim. I included Lillard because I'm also backing the unmatched improvement claim.

[Marlo Stanfield]

18 & 5 on 48% from the field is disappointing for a SG?

Strawman, right there. Being a Lamb fan you know very well what people thought disappointing about his sophomore year, yet you chose not to acknowledge the fact and toss out a couple of stats that have little or no bearing on my point instead. I can describe to you exactly why that's a strawman fallacy if you like, but I think you already know.

Anyway, I wasn't actually looking to haggle over rhetoric, just keep things focused on my point for a moment, which is that there were legitimately disappointing things about Lamb's play last year. Or, more specifically, that there is a public school of thought to that effect, and that school of though has a lot of influence over exactly how people think about Lamb.

Why make that point in the Lillard thread? Because Lillard doesn't have the same kind of issues as a pick. You can knock conference play all you like, but that only gets you so far (an argument we've had ad nauseum in this thread).

Oh ok, so actual stats are strawman to you since you'd put more weight on people's opinions. Clearly, you have no idea what a strawman argument is.

Sure, he didn't follow up his excellent freshman season with a monster sophomore campaign, but to throw away actual statistics would be ignorant. Kemba was the alpha male on that team and if anyone thought Jeremy would be the same type of personality they didn't know the person. Jeremy is a laid back guy, he's not going to get hyped after every bucket. He NEEDS an alpha on his team to take the pressure off him (as I've said many times). If anyone believes he's a #1 option in the NBA they'll be sad to know that he's not.

As for the Lillard strength of play argument. You know why it's brought up time and time again? Because it's legitimate. Period.

[Fenris-77]

Oh ok, so actual stats are strawman to you since you'd put more weight on people's opinions. Clearly, you have no idea what a strawman argument is.

Sure, he didn't follow up his excellent freshman season with a monster sophomore campaign, but to throw away actual statistics would be ignorant [... blah blah ...]
know that he's not.

As for the Lillard strength of play argument. You know why it's brought up time and time again? Because it's legitimate. Period.

Well, since my initial point was that there are legitmate public concerns about Lamb's play in his Sophomore year no, those specific stats don't really matter. I never said he was a complete dissapointment, or that he doesn't do anything well either. Obviously you can point to things he does well, there are actually lots of those, a fact I've never tried to deny. The only ignorant thing going on here is your continued inability to address my actual point and your decision to rely on ad hominem attacks instead.

If you'll scroll back to the previous page you'll read a post of mine where I specifically said that strength of conference was a legitimate issue for Lillard, so you can stop pretending I don't think that's the case. Strength of conference doesn't completely explain away Lillard's insane efficiency though, nor does it detract in the least from his athletic package or skill set. It's not some kind of magic phrase that lets you ignore anything you like about Lillard's skill set, as much as I'm quite sure you'd like to pretend that's the case.

[fredericklove]

Seriously?

I didn't cherry pick the stats. I used efficiency stats dude to show you improvement.

That's it just improvement

Lillard's improvement is astounding, I can't say the same for Lamb.

Again, u said lamb scares u because he made no improvement. So u decided to use another player as comparison and use that to jump to conclusion and say you see, lamb didn't improve. That's outrageously bias.

Rofl that's awfully weak Fred.

I ain't jumping to conclusions I'm simply showing you the stats that back my original claim. I included Lillard because I'm also backing the unmatched improvement claim.

LMAO!!!!! Oh you said that is weak, my brother? Read my words man, don't dodge it. You claimed Lamb scares you because he has not improved. Don't dodge this quote. Well, I guess I'm here to teach you. Watch and learn. When you analyze a player whether he improves year-to-year, you analyze it from his season-to-season comparison, not from player-to-player comparison. There are stats where he dropped slightly abit or stays the same but when you said he didn't improve, oh really, he didn't improve anything? Now here is something.

2010-11: 11.1 (pts), 9.1 (FGA), 3.3 (2pt), 54.6 (2P%), 1.1 (3PT), 4.5 (REB TOT), 0.9 (stls)
2011-12: 17.7 (pts), 13.4 (FGA), 4.3 (2pt), 60.1 (2P%), 2.1 (3PT), 4.9 (REB TOT), 1.2 (stls)

Has Lamb improved?

[deeps6x]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyFJOEjZPFw[/youtube]

He has obviously mastered his shot/release, but I wonder if it is too low to be successful in the NBA.

From the looks of it, a taller defender could play well off him and still be able to get a block on his shot. If he has good passing skills to compensate for this problem, then all right. If he is going to be a chucker, this could be a big problem.

[deeps6x]

Rofl that's awfully weak Fred.

I ain't jumping to conclusions I'm simply showing you the stats that back my original claim. I included Lillard because I'm also backing the unmatched improvement claim.

LMAO!!!!! Oh you said that is weak, my brother? Read my words man, don't dodge it. You claimed Lamb scares you because he has not improved. Don't dodge this quote. Well, I guess I'm here to teach you. Watch and learn. When you analyze a player whether he improves year-to-year, you analyze it from his season-to-season comparison, not from player-to-player comparison. There are stats where he dropped slightly abit or stays the same but when you said he didn't improve, oh really, he didn't improve anything? Now here is something.

2010-11: 11.1 (pts), 9.1 (FGA), 3.3 (2pt), 54.6 (2P%), 1.1 (3PT), 4.5 (REB TOT), 0.9 (stls)
2011-12: 17.7 (pts), 13.4 (FGA), 4.3 (2pt), 60.1 (2P%), 2.1 (3PT), 4.9 (REB TOT), 1.2 (stls)

Has Lamb improved?

Whoa man, no need for hissy fits on the board. You've got to realize that some of the things Raptors fans are writing are to prejudice fans from other teams against certain players.

I'm not saying that is what is going on here, but it could be.

Fans post BS about players just as much as BC uses smokescreens to get the player he wants.

If I know I love Lamb and trust that the scouts and BC would see through all of this forum BS, then I might just throw a few bash posts up against him.

BC and his scouts have to ignore all of the crapola that appears on the forums and trust their eyes and the scouting they've done all season.

PS Lamb is my pick at 8 if available.

PPS Do you believe me?

[Marlo Stanfield]

Oh ok, so actual stats are strawman to you since you'd put more weight on people's opinions. Clearly, you have no idea what a strawman argument is.

Sure, he didn't follow up his excellent freshman season with a monster sophomore campaign, but to throw away actual statistics would be ignorant [... blah blah ...]
know that he's not.

As for the Lillard strength of play argument. You know why it's brought up time and time again? Because it's legitimate. Period.

Well, since my initial point was that there are legitmate public concerns about Lamb's play in his Sophomore year no, those specific stats don't really matter. I never said he was a complete dissapointment, or that he doesn't do anything well either. Obviously you can point to things he does well, there are actually lots of those, a fact I've never tried to deny. The only ignorant thing going on here is your continued inability to address my actual point and your decision to rely on ad hominem attacks instead.

If you'll scroll back to the previous page you'll read a post of mine where I specifically said that strength of conference was a legitimate issue for Lillard, so you can stop pretending I don't think that's the case. Strength of conference doesn't completely explain away Lillard's insane efficiency though, nor does it detract in the least from his athletic package or skill set. It's not some kind of magic phrase that lets you ignore anything you like about Lillard's skill set, as much as I'm quite sure you'd like to pretend that's the case.

Is this public concern similar to the same concern about the world ending in 2012? What about the zombie apocalypse that began in Miami? You ignore any point made about Lamb and try to say you're being ignored. Ignorance is bliss. Strawman at it's finest...

If you don't believe Lamb would've destroyed Weber St. opponents as the one and only option on his team you're more confused than I thought. You choose to ignore Lamb's skillset and trash him instead, yet I'm ignoring Lillard somehow when every point I've made has included him. Sure bud... This is like talking to a wall. If you want to go in circles all day feel free to do so, alone.

[cdel00]

fred that's all status quo for lamb except him improvement in 2pnt FG%

His 3pnt % went down bro from the much closer college line.

Food look at his stats per 40 mins and see the lack of improvement. And multiple spots of regression.

Don't be mad at me I didn't pin the stats they are what they are.

[fredericklove]

LMAO!!!!! Oh you said that is weak, my brother? Read my words man, don't dodge it. You claimed Lamb scares you because he has not improved. Don't dodge this quote. Well, I guess I'm here to teach you. Watch and learn. When you analyze a player whether he improves year-to-year, you analyze it from his season-to-season comparison, not from player-to-player comparison. There are stats where he dropped slightly abit or stays the same but when you said he didn't improve, oh really, he didn't improve anything? Now here is something.

2010-11: 11.1 (pts), 9.1 (FGA), 3.3 (2pt), 54.6 (2P%), 1.1 (3PT), 4.5 (REB TOT), 0.9 (stls)
2011-12: 17.7 (pts), 13.4 (FGA), 4.3 (2pt), 60.1 (2P%), 2.1 (3PT), 4.9 (REB TOT), 1.2 (stls)

Has Lamb improved?

Whoa man, no need for hissy fits on the board. You've got to realize that some of the things Raptors fans are writing are to prejudice fans from other teams against certain players.

I'm not saying that is what is going on here, but it could be.

Fans post BS about players just as much as BC uses smokescreens to get the player he wants.

If I know I love Lamb and trust that the scouts and BC would see through all of this forum BS, then I might just throw a few bash posts up against him.

BC and his scouts have to ignore all of the crapola that appears on the forums and trust their eyes and the scouting they've done all season.

PS Lamb is my pick at 8 if available.

PPS Do you believe me?[/quote]

I'm not. I'm just teaching him that when you make a statement, you have to back it up with strong evidences, not just strong but the right evidences. I have no problem with Lillard being the pick at 8th, I'm just here to rightfully correct a poster's statement that was made without depth.

[Dr Positivity]

From Blazer's Edge

Owner Paul Allen, interim head coach Kaleb Canales and all members of the Portland front office dined with Lillard Thursday night.

"They were great," Lillard said. "It was smooth. Everything went along pretty easy. Great conversation. I didn't feel like I was trying to please anybody or they were trying to please me.

"It was just a good time. We had dinner, talked about myself growing up, things like that. Just getting to know each othe

By all accounts, Lillard dazzled in his individual predraft workout Friday at the Blazers' practice facility in Tualatin. With owner Paul Allen watching from the sideline, the Blazers ran the Weber State product through a series of full-court and half-court dribbling exercises, evaluated him extensively in pick-and-roll situations, threw a variety of defensive looks his way in drills and then watched him shoot.

Um... yeah.

[cdel00]

Look at Stats per 40 pace adjusted for Lamb Fred.

[Marlo Stanfield]

From Blazer's Edge

Owner Paul Allen, interim head coach Kaleb Canales and all members of the Portland front office dined with Lillard Thursday night.

"They were great," Lillard said. "It was smooth. Everything went along pretty easy. Great conversation. I didn't feel like I was trying to please anybody or they were trying to please me.

"It was just a good time. We had dinner, talked about myself growing up, things like that. Just getting to know each othe

By all accounts, Lillard dazzled in his individual predraft workout Friday at the Blazers' practice facility in Tualatin. With owner Paul Allen watching from the sideline, the Blazers ran the Weber State product through a series of full-court and half-court dribbling exercises, evaluated him extensively in pick-and-roll situations, threw a variety of defensive looks his way in drills and then watched him shoot.

Um... yeah.

[fredericklove]

fred that's all status quo for lamb except him improvement in 2pnt FG%

His 3pnt % went down bro from the much closer college line.

Food look at his stats per 40 mins and see the lack of improvement. And multiple spots of regression.

Don't be mad at me I didn't pin the stats they are what they are.

Well I guess you're just going to continuously ignore those FGA/2pt/2P%/3PTM/REB/Stl differential, so fine ignore them for whatever unknown reasons you have Saying he does have improvement in certain thing means he did improved, now that wasn't so hard, was it? So let's just say your previous statement about Lamb didn't improve is pretty much a big false. I guess I rest my case (?).