2012 NBA Draft - Part V

[Higga]

Our drafts always leak. Everyone knew we were taking Vesley last year and we did. I fully expect us to take MKG. Difference is, I actually like MKG and think he'll be a hell of a player in time. Only issue with him is it once again gives us a talented young player who can't shoot.

[dobrojim]

Darn, I think OKC is less-likely to part with their 28th pick the way this series is going.

But, if Harden continues to struggle and they get beat by the Heat, they may be willing to part with Harden to save some money if they can get a good draft pick in return.

Harden and Ibaka have been major disappointments in the Finals so far.

[payitforward]

You can say what you want but Ill take it to my grave that if Dray is right then he's more talented than any of those guys (i.e. James Singleton, Booker and Vesely) and will win the starting job outright

"Talented" -- meaning what?

He'll shoot a higher FG%? No, he never has.
He'll rebound at a higher rate? Than which of these guys? Again, he never has.

Andray Blatche had an 8 game run of high productivity right after the big team breakup, before anyone bothered scouting him. Then he played @4 ok games at the end of that season. And of course, he's had a few other good games.

Overall, he's been a terrible player from the moment he entered the league. As for "right" -- again, what does that mean? He's never had much athleticism, and he's now 27 not 19. He isn't getting back what he had, and it wasn't much to begin with.

In other words, he's not a good player at his best, and he's far from being at his best or any likelihood of returning there.

Terrible player? LOL You're really exaggerating. The last two years he has been, but not when he's healthy and in-shape. Dray is one of the most skilled bigs in the league. Do you not remember two years ago when KG couldn't guard him? *Sigh* How quickly people forget. While I want him gone, there's just a little bit of me that hopes he finally gets in-shape this season and prove his haters wrong, but I know it won't happen. He would be an All-Star if he wasn't so lazy.

Piffle.

Leaving out the first 8 games after the big break-up (when no one had yet bothered scouting him), why don't you point me to any month -- any month whatever, ok? -- when he's been above PF average in FG% and/or rebounding rate. Really has to be both for him to be an above average player, but lets start with one of those two key numbers. Any month.

Here's a hint: you won't find one. And your case for him rests on a single good game vs. Kevin Garnett. Please.

I don't think he's "so lazy." He's just not all that much of a player and never has been.

[payitforward]

Dray is really a fun player to watch when he's right, dlts20. You keep hope alive with Andray. I did with Javale.

Seriously, I think Andray at his best is a slightly better than average NBA PF/C. If a team like the Celtics had a healthy Andray Blatche they might be playing OKC right now. Andray can handle the ball, he can pass, when motivated he can rebound, he has post moves like the Dream Shake, and he can even block shots. The problem is he is not a finisher and he has fallen in love with low percentage shots. Blatche is good when he is in shape and is a 3rd or 4th scoring option.

I just cannot see him fitting with the Wizards unless it means destroying team chemistry and denying Booker or James Singleton, even i they are more effective. I think the best thing for all parties is to move Blatche, but I don't believe Ted will do that.

Nah, he's a bum. Nor will it be possible to move him. You can't trade a broken axle for a Ferrari. All you can get back is another broken axle.

As to 'he can handle' -- what's his TO rate? As to 'rebound' -- what's his rebounding rate? Good post moves lead to a high FG%, which he doesn't have -- and he shoots those jump shots not out of love but because he can't get it done in the post.

[nate33]

Our drafts always leak. Everyone knew we were taking Vesley last year and we did. I fully expect us to take MKG. Difference is, I actually like MKG and think he'll be a hell of a player in time. Only issue with him is it once again gives us a talented young player who can't shoot.

The Vesely pick was indeed leaked. But nobody saw the McGee pick coming. Or the Booker pick. Or the Seraphin pick. Or the Pecherov pick. Or the Young pick. Or the Mike Miller trade.

[Higga]

Our drafts always leak. Everyone knew we were taking Vesley last year and we did. I fully expect us to take MKG. Difference is, I actually like MKG and think he'll be a hell of a player in time. Only issue with him is it once again gives us a talented young player who can't shoot.

The Vesely pick was indeed leaked. But nobody saw the McGee pick coming. Or the Booker pick. Or the Seraphin pick. Or the Pecherov pick. Or the Young pick. Or the Mike Miller trade.

Those were middle round picks, harder to project.

Other then the Wall and Vesley pick, the two other times we had top picks we traded them for veterans days in advance.

[payitforward]

I think you're right CCJ, Ted does not want to amnesty Blatche. I think we will really see where Ted is at if he does not amnesty Dray, nor attempt any FA signings beyond vet-minimum players.

Why? I keep hearing that it costs us money. No, it doesn't. Dray is untradeable and doesn't contribute, and it's *his contract* that costs us money. If you amnesty him, you fill his spot w/ a round 2 type rookie at $500K. That's what amnestying him costs -- the dollars to fill the spot.

It is not a fact that he will be untradable this coming year. But it is a fact that if you amnesty him, you will pay the full contract minus whatever anyone signs him for. Once done, you closed the door on that money. Bring him back this year and there is still a chance you can trade him after using him for half the year. In exchange you get a player with a bigger contract that is amortized down and then done. Drays contract is then off the books next year and it cost you basically this years money to do it.

Point is, they will keep there options open. Your facts are not actually facts.

My facts are facts, hands -- but you've added some more facts; no problem.

What you say is true; you can't trade an amnestied contract. And the greater the likelihood of getting something valuable back for a player in a trade, the lower the motivation to amnesty him. So far so good -- no argument.

But what makes you think we'll get something like that for Andray Blatche? Something more worth having -- either in the form of a better player or a better contract. I can't see it, but that doesn't mean it isn't there.

Can you speculate on one GM/team that might trade for Blatche? And what they might give that we'd want? I don't mean this as a challenge; I really can't see it at all.

[closg00]

I've got zero confidence in Ernie. In the Ted era I don't know that he's made any wrong decisions, including the Ves draft pick. Who was better than Ves? Leonard? I still think Ves has higher upside. Klay Thompson?

I wanted the Zards to draft Leonard with the sixth pick last year. Instead they took Ves. But I agree that Ves has more upside. Ves is almost 7 ft. tall, he's long, athletic and is very smart bball player. One of the reasonns Leonard looked to good last year was that he in a perfect situation in SA where he wasn't asked to be anything than a role player. All Kawhi had to do was play good D and be available to knock down the open shot. To his credit, he did both those things very well.

I love Klay Thompson. He's got good size and is a special shooter. A lot of teams are going to regret passing on him in last year's draft.

Fixed Ernie attempted to re-sign Nick Young and he extended Blacthe, that's %100 on him.

Regarding the draft, he worked-out Leonard but had been fixated on Vesely for several years. When you aren't drafting stars, everyone you're taking is a role-player. Leonard is a nice role-player.

Klay Thompson? We would have been set at the 2 going into this draft
Singleton was a draft-night dropper, other GM's apparently got the memo
Mack was taken because of his pedigree, could he have won a back-up PG battle against IT?

Other guys who could have made us better and were touted BEFORE the draft:
Faried
Parsons
JWilliams
Tyler
Leur
Deibler

So yeah, I am very nervous 10-days out from draft night.

[dobrojim]

I'm not sure it was leaked as much as it was simply obvious that he was going to be the guy -

while there were clearly question marks about all the players under consideration, Ves
may have had some of the best responses to those question marks.

I've been watching some DVR'd games from when Ves was starting. He really
does a lot of things well. On D, he's like a monkey wrench thrown into the other
team's offensive scheme. I still say in 2-4 years, people will wonder how he fell
to 6th.

[payitforward]

You can say what you want but Ill take it to my grave that if Dray is right then he's more talented than any of those guys (i.e. James Singleton, Booker and Vesely) and will win the starting job outright

"Talented" -- meaning what?

He'll shoot a higher FG%? No, he never has.
He'll rebound at a higher rate? Than which of these guys? Again, he never has.

Andray Blatche had an 8 game run of high productivity right after the big team breakup, before anyone bothered scouting him. Then he played @4 ok games at the end of that season. And of course, he's had a few other good games.

Overall, he's been a terrible player from the moment he entered the league. As for "right" -- again, what does that mean? He's never had much athleticism, and he's now 27 not 19. He isn't getting back what he had, and it wasn't much to begin with.

In other words, he's not a good player at his best, and he's far from being at his best or any likelihood of returning there.

Born Aug 22, 1986 in Syracuse, NY (Age: 25)
He will be 26 and like 3 months when the season starts.

Lets stick to the facts.

Strong point, man -- really telling. You caught me in a typo. And that's a fact.

Now... how about that above PF-average FG% and rebounding? Those would be facts too, right? Can you stick those in here. We agree he was good for an 8 game stretch 2+ years ago. Was there another 8 game stretch any time before or after that I might have missed?

[closg00]

I'm not sure it was leaked as much as it was simply obvious that he was going to be the guy -

while there were clearly question marks about all the players under consideration, Ves
may have had some of the best responses to those question marks.

I've been watching some DVR'd games from when Ves was starting. He really
does a lot of things well. On D, he's like a monkey wrench thrown into the other
team's offensive scheme. I still say in 2-4 years, people will wonder how he fell
to 6th.

So you're predicting Jan will be better than Derrick Williams, Jonas, etc?

[payitforward]

If you have any sense at all, you don't bring him back period - under any circumstances. He's had 7 years in the NBA. Just keeping him around the team would be an obvious step backwards to any momentum this organization has built. It's amazing to the point of absurdity to me that people think it makes sense to give him another chance.

What he said!

[dobrojim]

I'm not sure it was leaked as much as it was simply obvious that he was going to be the guy -

while there were clearly question marks about all the players under consideration, Ves
may have had some of the best responses to those question marks.

I've been watching some DVR'd games from when Ves was starting. He really
does a lot of things well. On D, he's like a monkey wrench thrown into the other
team's offensive scheme. I still say in 2-4 years, people will wonder how he fell
to 6th.

So you're predicting Jan will be better than Derrick Williams, Jonas, etc?

Derrick I have fallen out of love with. Maybe I didn't see him enough last year
but when I did see him, he looked like a mediocre SF and not a guy who might
play the 4 at all. Maybe he'll get better.

None of us have seen Jonas in the NBA yet. So maybe you're right. Your
EG hate just might be coloring your perceptions however.

Besides shooting, tell us why you hate Ves.

[payitforward]

[quote="payitforward]...my massive trade down strategy of a few weeks ago (3 > 6 & 11; 6 > 14 & 16; 14 > 21 & 22; 22 > 33 & 34; 33 > 40 & 41.

This leaves us with #s 11, 16, 21, 32, 34, 40, 41 & 46. Six of them acquired for #3. Truth is I believe in this strategy. I think we'd be better off. What do you think?[/quote]
crazy/laughable

what are we going to do, cut 3/4 of the team so we have roster space for all
our draft picks. We can do it again next year if it works OK this year.[/quote]

Wow, dobro-dude -- I didn't think of that! I'm all over that idea!

[payitforward]

I've got confidence in Ernie. In the Ted era I don't know that he's made any wrong decisions, including the Ves draft pick. Who was better than Ves? Leonard? I still think Ves has higher upside. .... It was just a bad draft. Singleton looked like a monster defender early on and fell off a bit. I still think he was a great pick. Shumpert is the only guy there that may have been better, and I'm not really sure about that. Moving Hinrich for Crawford and the 18th was a great move.

Looking forward to seeing what he does next.

??? What would limit Leonard's "upside"? The fact that he's so good? Sheesh. Vesely looked like he was on the way to being a good NBA player -- but he has a long road to travel before he's as good as Leonard was his rookie year.

As to no one better than Singleton -- I guess you forgot about Faried? Heck, Chandler Parsons, taken in round 2, was a lot better than Singleton.

OTOH, you are way right that moving Hinrich for #18 and... (I wish it'd been anyone but) Crawford was good work -- especially given that he got Hinrich for absolutely nothing and he came w/ a large-sized bonus: Seraphin.

[payitforward]

Ok, I'm not for drafting Andre Drummond, but this interview made him seem a good bit more interesting than he'd been previously (might have been influenced by his mentioning Bill Russell!! )

http://www.nba.com/wizards/video/2012/0 ... index.html

[kirubel94]

Ok, I'm not for drafting Andre Drummond, but this interview made him seem a good bit more interesting than he'd been previously (might have been influenced by his mentioning Bill Russell!! )

http://www.nba.com/wizards/video/2012/0 ... index.html

The kid is very humble, and funny too, i really hope the wizards FO do their homework on him, his upside is enormous.

[closg00]

I'm not sure it was leaked as much as it was simply obvious that he was going to be the guy -

while there were clearly question marks about all the players under consideration, Ves
may have had some of the best responses to those question marks.

I've been watching some DVR'd games from when Ves was starting. He really
does a lot of things well. On D, he's like a monkey wrench thrown into the other
team's offensive scheme. I still say in 2-4 years, people will wonder how he fell
to 6th.

So you're predicting Jan will be better than Derrick Williams, Jonas, etc?

Derrick I have fallen out of love with. Maybe I didn't see him enough last year
but when I did see him, he looked like a mediocre SF and not a guy who might
play the 4 at all. Maybe he'll get better.

None of us have seen Jonas in the NBA yet. So maybe you're right. Your
EG hate just might be coloring your perceptions however.

Besides shooting, tell us why you hate Ves.

I don't "hate" Ves, I just don't think that you take a player with his particular skill-set with your 6th pick. Donatas was taken 20th, and on-balance I predict Houston will be getting far more bang for their buck.

Re: Williams, why do you thrown-in the towel for him when he has been playing pro-ball fewer years than Jan? DW had a pretty-good rookie year.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/488 ... H5QrekvLYF

[DCZards]

??? What would limit Leonard's "upside"? The fact that he's so good? Sheesh. Vesely looked like he was on the way to being a good NBA player -- but he has a long road to travel before he's as good as Leonard was his rookie year.

Leonard had an oustanding rookie season and he will get better. But there's no question that Leonard benfitted immensely from playing on a team of vets who've been together for several years (Manu,Parker,TD) and playing for one of the best coaches of all time. I'm not so sure Leonard would have looked as good playing with Wall, McGee, Blatche, Crawford, Young, etc. or in the unstable coaching situation that the Zards had almost all of last season.

P.S.: I believe Ves will someday be as good or better than Leonard.

[FAH1223]

Let me just interupt and interject - the folks just assuming MKG will be the Wiz pick are really jumping the gun.

Carry on.

Most of the time I am disappointed when the Wizards pick is announced. I expect to hear Barnes or Drummond. No others.

I haven't been happy since Wall was called and that was pre-determined a month before. I was just relieved we didn't get Turner.