2012 NBA Draft - Part V

[Rafael122]

Jared Sullinger red flagged with back issues.

[Dat2U]

There really isn't much we can do at the 3-spot, leaking is totally worthless. My guess is that the Wizards are hoping that the Cats do not take Barnes.

My jaw will drop to the floor if we take MKG...unless Singleton is moved for peanuts on draft-night. It's going to be a long-night on the 28th, glad I'm not working the next-day.

I completely agree. While many of us think Singleton was totally worthless last year and shouldn't be a consideration on whom to pick I don't believe EG feels the same way. Apparently they were very high on him last year and to select a 'duplicate' player is an admonition of failure. I think most GM’s are a bit too proud to admit failure.

The mistake is comparing the 17th pick in a weak draft to the 3rd pick. Singleton's presence should have no impact on whether we drafted MKG or not. The only duplication is that they play the same position and both are defensive oriented. We needed a huge upgrade at the SF position and MKG offers that and so much more. I fail to see what the issue is.

[Rafael122]

There really isn't much we can do at the 3-spot, leaking is totally worthless. My guess is that the Wizards are hoping that the Cats do not take Barnes.

My jaw will drop to the floor if we take MKG...unless Singleton is moved for peanuts on draft-night. It's going to be a long-night on the 28th, glad I'm not working the next-day.

I completely agree. While many of us think Singleton was totally worthless last year and shouldn't be a consideration on whom to pick I don't believe EG feels the same way. Apparently they were very high on him last year and to select a 'duplicate' player is an admonition of failure. I think most GM’s are a bit too proud to admit failure.

The mistake is comparing the 17th pick in a weak draft to the 3rd pick. Singleton's presence should have no impact on whether we drafted MKG or not. The only duplication is that they play the same position and both are defensive oriented. We needed a huge upgrade at the SF position and MKG offers that and so much more. I fail to see what the issue is.

He can't shoot, Dat. If he had a respectable jumper, fine. But he can't shoot.

[davidgrant]

Not sure if this has been posted, but here is John Hollinger's draft board.

------

Here is how my board looks heading into draft day. This is taking into account everything from the Draft Rater as well as what we know about the players' red flags, defensive pluses and minuses and one or two subjective calls:


1. Anthony Davis
2. Thomas Robinson
3. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
4. Dion Waiters
5. Andre Drummond



6. Quincy Miller
7. Jared Sullinger
8. Terrence Jones
9. John Henson
10. Royce White



11. Bradley Beal
12. Harrison Barnes
13. Tony Wroten
14. Kendall Marshall
15. Marquis Teague



16. Draymond Green
17. Jeremy Lamb
18. Damian Lillard
19. Austin Rivers
20. Doron Lamb



21. Furkan Aldemir
22. Will Barton
23. Tyler Zeller
24. Evan Fournier
25. Tyshawn Taylor



26. Meyers Leonard
27. Terrence Ross
28. Perry Jones
29. Festus Ezeli
30. Fab Melo



31. Kostas Sloukas
32. Henry Sims
33. Terrell Stoglin
34. Kostas Papanikolaou
35. Moe Harkless



36. Leon Radosevic
37. JaMychal Green
38. Andrew Nicholson
39. Drew Gordon
40. Garrett Stutz



41. Robert Sacre
42. Arnett Moultrie
43. Elias Harris
44. William Buford
45. Jae Crowder



46. Jared Cunningham
47. Jordan Taylor
48. John Jenkins
49. Orlando Johnson
50. Jeffrey Taylor



51. Quincy Acy
52. Maalik Wayns
53. Tornike Shengelia
54. Scott Machado
55. Mike Scott



56. J'Covan Brown
57. Reggie Hamilton
58. Khris Middleton
59. Tony Mitchell
60. Miles Plumlee

[Dat2U]

He can't shoot, Dat. If he had a respectable jumper, fine. But he can't shoot.

We can go around in circles on this but shooting isn't the only skill in basketball. And frankly, I think part of this board has lost sight of that. Folks seem more interested in finding the perfect offensive fit as opposed to the best player. Not the best fit mind you, just the best offensive fit, as if that somehow should dictate the direction we go in above anything else.

Also, MKG is 18, his shot may improve. The NBA is filled with players who improved or didn't improve their shooting once they got in the league. With MKG's work ethic, youth and maturity, I'd expect him to be in the former category.

[closg00]

There really isn't much we can do at the 3-spot, leaking is totally worthless. My guess is that the Wizards are hoping that the Cats do not take Barnes.

My jaw will drop to the floor if we take MKG...unless Singleton is moved for peanuts on draft-night. It's going to be a long-night on the 28th, glad I'm not working the next-day.

I completely agree. While many of us think Singleton was totally worthless last year and shouldn't be a consideration on whom to pick I don't believe EG feels the same way. Apparently they were very high on him last year and to select a 'duplicate' player is an admonition of failure. I think most GM’s are a bit too proud to admit failure.

The mistake is comparing the 17th pick in a weak draft to the 3rd pick. Singleton's presence should have no impact on whether we drafted MKG or not. The only duplication is that they play the same position and both are defensive oriented. We needed a huge upgrade at the SF position and MKG offers that and so much more. I fail to see what the issue is.

I don't deny that MKG looks like a stud and he definitely passes the eye-test, but then we would have two offensively challenged guys manning the 3-spot. If we bringing-in a stretch-4 and draft another SG, then I would warm-up to MKG on the team.

[Knighthonor]

I completely agree. While many of us think Singleton was totally worthless last year and shouldn't be a consideration on whom to pick I don't believe EG feels the same way. Apparently they were very high on him last year and to select a 'duplicate' player is an admonition of failure. I think most GM’s are a bit too proud to admit failure.

The mistake is comparing the 17th pick in a weak draft to the 3rd pick. Singleton's presence should have no impact on whether we drafted MKG or not. The only duplication is that they play the same position and both are defensive oriented. We needed a huge upgrade at the SF position and MKG offers that and so much more. I fail to see what the issue is.

He can't shoot, Dat. If he had a respectable jumper, fine. But he can't shoot.

Man beal and HB on wizards

Or Beal and TRob.

No seem win. But can it happen?

[hegotgame132]

I might bet my net worth Furkan Aldemir doesn't have a better nba career than Meyers Leonard, some of these rankings are just asinine

[mg]

Hollinger and his advanced stats are interesting but it's just one small piece of the puzzle. For example I believe he had Tristan Thompson rated near the top of his board last year but Thompson turned out to be a very raw rookie in the NBA this season.

As far as Beal is concerned Hollinger didn't touch on the fact he was playing in a tough situation with ball hogging guards at Florida. He doesn't add in the fact Beal was greatly improved by the time the tournament rolled around in March.

[payitforward]

??? What would limit Leonard's "upside"? The fact that he's so good? Sheesh. Vesely looked like he was on the way to being a good NBA player -- but he has a long road to travel before he's as good as Leonard was his rookie year.

Leonard had an oustanding rookie season and he will get better. But there's no question that Leonard benfitted immensely from playing on a team of vets who've been together for several years (Manu,Parker,TD) and playing for one of the best coaches of all time. I'm not so sure Leonard would have looked as good playing with Wall, McGee, Blatche, Crawford, Young, etc. or in the unstable coaching situation that the Zards had almost all of last season.

P.S.: I believe Ves will someday be as good or better than Leonard.

I see this kind of remark all the time; it's a pretty classic narrative. But there's not much data to support players' productivity being much influenced by the players around them or the coaches -- despite the fact that it seems like it ought to be true. OTOH, if I remember rightly some reading from a couple of years ago, Popovich is one of the few coaches that the data says *does* have that kind of inluence: overall, guys are just a bit more productive playing for him than where they play before and after.

I had one person tell me that Leonard played well because he was surrounded by superstars. I pointed out that actually the Spurs aren't made up of superstars -- they have one, and he is not nearly as productive as he was a few years ago. They have a couple of star-level producers as well. Three, actually, now that I go back and look: Parker, Ginobili, and ...Kawhi Leonard.

So then the guy said well he's so outstanding because he's surrounded by disciplined role-players. Ok, first it's superstars then it's role players?

Can't we just let Kawhi Leonard be outstanding because that's what he is? Overall, he's already one of the top 1/2 dozen 3s in the league.

But Kawhi Leonard being good in no way prevents Jan Vesely from being good.

[Jay81]

cant believe hollinger has rivers and Lilliard neck to neck in the mid teens??

[closg00]

If anyone had any doubts about TRob, Hollinger has him rated #2 on his board.

Re: Waiters, Hollinger has him rated ahead of Beal, No-doubt some other team using metrics knew to make an early draft-night promise.

Hey!!! If Waiters projects to be THIS good, he should be in the mix for us also at 3.

[Jay81]

Im all for taking MGK but would feel better if we made a trade to get another lottery pick in the top 8-10

[TGW]

Jared Sullinger red flagged with back issues.

I've been saying this since he's freshman year—the kid will have chronic back and knee issues for his entire career. His left leg is shorter than his right leg, and he has to wear corrective shoes to balance himself.

I would stay far, far away from Sullinger unless he fell to the second round.

[Jay81]

Jared Sullinger red flagged with back issues.

I've been saying this since he's freshman year—the kid will have chronic back and knee issues for his entire career. His left leg is shorter than his right leg, and he has to wear corrective shoes to balance himself.

I would stay far, far away from Sullinger unless he fell to the second round.

He will go to the Spurs and be on the 1st rookie team next year

[payitforward]

??? What would limit Leonard's "upside"? The fact that he's so good? Sheesh. Vesely looked like he was on the way to being a good NBA player -- but he has a long road to travel before he's as good as Leonard was his rookie year.

Leonard had an oustanding rookie season and he will get better. But there's no question that Leonard benfitted immensely from playing on a team of vets who've been together for several years (Manu,Parker,TD) and playing for one of the best coaches of all time. I'm not so sure Leonard would have looked as good playing with Wall, McGee, Blatche, Crawford, Young, etc. or in the unstable coaching situation that the Zards had almost all of last season.

P.S.: I believe Ves will someday be as good or better than Leonard.

+1...Leonard isn't an elite wing. He's a good role player on a team with capable scorers. If we was asked to initiate his own offense or play above his abilities he would struggle. Would we have gotten more instant bang for our buck with Leonard? Sure...was the goal to win as many games as possible this past season or get the best long-term fit? The jury is still out and its way to early to declare anyone a winner but I like Jan's upside and the uniqueness of what he can bring to a team.

Same old same old. He's good, because the other guys are good; it's not really him.

So, when he averaged 13 boards/40 minutes as a 6'7" 19 year old, that was also because of the other players on his team (back at San Diego State)? At the same size, but a year younger, MK-G averaged 9 boards/40 minutes. Which is better? 13 or 9?

And Leonard had a .57 TS% as an NBA rookie -- his shots went in because of the other guys?

Oh, I know: MK-G rebounded less because the other Kentucky players were so good, such good rebounders, right?

MK-G was less good because the other guys were good. Leonard was more good because the other guys were good. No problem. I get it.

Btw, you know how many SFs had fewer turnovers per minute than Kawhi Leonard last season? 3 -- that's all. How lucky can you get to be playing with guys who stop you from turning the ball over, huh?

Oh... I'm editing because I forgot this: you know how many SFs had more steals per minute than Kawhi Leonard last season? None -- zero. He tied Paul George and Stephen Jackson for the league lead.

[MF23]

He can't shoot, Dat. If he had a respectable jumper, fine. But he can't shoot.

We can go around in circles on this but shooting isn't the only skill in basketball. And frankly, I think part of this board has lost sight of that. Folks seem more interested in finding the perfect offensive fit as opposed to the best player. Not the best fit mind you, just the best offensive fit, as if that somehow should dictate the direction we go in above anything else.

Also, MKG is 18, his shot may improve. The NBA is filled with players who improved or didn't improve their shooting once they got in the league. With MKG's work ethic, youth and maturity, I'd expect him to be in the former category.

I don't care if an 18yr old can't shoot. Most can't. Why is this board imploring the Wizards take a shooter? The team is not contending for anything, it doesn't matter! My estimate is MKG will never be the scorer John Wall needs to win a championship. However, those two especially in a few years are going to be a really competitive pairing.

All this doesn't matter, I get a feeling Charlottes not picking MKG due to the difficulty to market him and lack of scoring which makes sense. If MKG is on the board when the Wizards pick there are several reasons why I'm certain he'll be the pick.

[Dat2U]

[

And Leonard had a .57 TS% as an NBA rookie -- his shots went in because of the other guys?

Oh, I know: MK-G rebounded less because the other Kentucky players were so good, such good rebounders, right?

MK-G was less good because the other guys were good. Leonard was more good because the other guys were good. No problem. I get it.

Btw, you know how many SFs had fewer turnovers per minute than Kawhi Leonard last season? 3 -- that's all. How lucky can you get to be playing with guys who stop you from turning the ball over, huh?

Oh... I'm editing because I forgot this: you know how many SFs had more steals per minute than Kawhi Leonard last season? None -- zero. He tied Paul George and Stephen Jackson for the league lead.

I think Leonard helps make the case that MKG can improve his shooting stroke. Leonard is an example of a hard working player that improved his range since his last year in college. Leonard wasn't a good shooter or finisher entering the draft.

[willbcocks]

Payitforward: I don't think it's a stretch to say his shots went in because of his teammates. Everyone on that team gets open shots, all the time. If KL had played on the Wizards last year, he would have been taking very different shots, and probably shooting a much lower percentage. Same with TOs--the guy was given a clear, limited role to play in a very efficient offense, whereas many rookies play in terrible offenses and are asked to create beyond their potential.

I like Kawhi a lot, and if I had to redo the draft he's one of two guys I would prefer to Vesely (the other being Faried), but he clearly benefited from (or you could say made the most of) a good situation.

[rl25g]

Another Trade !!

Lewis, Singleton, 2013 1st

for Garcia, Salmons, #5

By buying out Lewis, Sacramento will be paying the same amount of money this year as it would if they just kept Garcia and Salmons. It would however, get out of the last year of Salmons contract, get them a defensive small forward prospect, and a future 1st for next year. Sac only does this if they feel as if no one entices them at #5.

For us, we would be able to get two top 5 prospects, without damaging our long term salary cap plans.

If we were to follow up with Blathce, Booker, Crawford for Blake, McRoberts to the Lakers (sacrifice Booker to move Blatche for useful, veteran pieces) we would look like this:

Wall/Blake/Mack
MKG(#3)/D. Lamb(#32)/Garcia
Barnes(#5)/Salmons
Nene/Vesley
Seraphin/McRoberts/#46