2012 NBA Draft - Part V

[hands11]

The McGee picked surprised everyone on this board when it happened. I remember that distinctly. Nobody had McGee on their radar.

You are kidding right ? I started posting about him repeatedly once I saw that predraft workout camp article and video about him in that summer camp lead by that NFL player. I posted plenty about McGee. I had us taking him or Hibbert. Hibby was gone, and we took McGee.

Here's the draft thread right when McGee was selected. The response was universally negative (and surprised):
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=814316&hilit=hibbert&start=645

I went back about 20 pages before our selection and never saw McGee mentioned even once. If you could point me to your post where you predicted we would draft McGee, maybe I'll revise my statement.

Fish has it right. I have no idea which threads I posted in, there are usually several. It was in my sig for mouths as Fish pointed out. I think I read through that thread once before. Not even sure I posted in that. I must not have been online during draft night. I'm talking about the mouths before the draft.

[hands11]

payitforward

The team, system and coach you play for can obviously make a difference. Specially your first year. Why are you even trying to debate this.

Yes, how could you? Without the slightest hint of irony or sarcasm. Damn your Vulcan logic!

Yes, I am part Vulcan. Crap. I have been found out.

Dude, that was to funny.

[Ed Wood]

Well what does seem to be a theme this year is the lack of a clear, consistent hierarchy of value beyond the clear standout value that Davis represents. Even when attempting to predict very similar outcomes based upon very similar material and valuing very similar qualities different prognosticators have produced tiers of value with very significant differences, re: the lists produced by Hollinger and by Kevin. Some of the discrepancies speak as much to the differences in how different systems attempt to predict success, such as Hollinger's fondness for youth and reliance on certain stats to predict athletic ability.

The rest seems to leave us with a mess of a middle game and a lot of room for personality to take over on individual boards, which further allows for head shrinking based upon the various draft boards but also leaves us in a bit of a bind as to whom to root for. Honestly I'm tempted to prefer swapping down for Portland's two picks or something similar simply to have two tries at figuring out who's worth having in that nebulae of not quite top talent. I suppose also that if nothing else Kidd-Gilchrist has managed to be the tuna salad favorite as a draft option in that he's appropriate in all situations and apparently offensive to no one.

[Dat2U]

Washington, as Ted Leonsis stated during the Lottery, will stand pat at 3 and seem to be considering Barnes, Brad Beal, and Thomas Robinson but are infatuated with Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. The Kentucky forward is said to at the top of the Wizards' wish list. Washington's front office seems intrigued by how athletic a lineup featuring Kidd-Gilchrist and John Wall could be and while there is a faction that would like to bring in Robinson, the hometown kid, Jan Vesely and Kevin Seraphin still have the franchise's confidence.

http://probasketballdraft.com/78-featur ... -at-2.html

[TGW]

Washington, as Ted Leonsis stated during the Lottery, will stand pat at 3 and seem to be considering Barnes, Brad Beal, and Thomas Robinson but are infatuated with Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. The Kentucky forward is said to at the top of the Wizards' wish list. Washington's front office seems intrigued by how athletic a lineup featuring Kidd-Gilchrist and John Wall could be and while there is a faction that would like to bring in Robinson, the hometown kid, Jan Vesely and Kevin Seraphin still have the franchise's confidence.

http://probasketballdraft.com/78-featur ... -at-2.html

I'm all about MKG now. He just seems like the least risky out of himself and Beal. If Robinson is not there, take MKG.

[truwizfan4evr]

Washington, as Ted Leonsis stated during the Lottery, will stand pat at 3 and seem to be considering Barnes, Brad Beal, and Thomas Robinson but are infatuated with Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. The Kentucky forward is said to at the top of the Wizards' wish list. Washington's front office seems intrigued by how athletic a lineup featuring Kidd-Gilchrist and John Wall could be and while there is a faction that would like to bring in Robinson, the hometown kid, Jan Vesely and Kevin Seraphin still have the franchise's confidence.

http://probasketballdraft.com/78-featur ... -at-2.html

I'm all about MKG now. He just seems like the least risky out of himself and Beal. If Robinson is not there, take MKG.

I agree, he is going to be really good. I Want thomas Robinson so badly!

[Dat2U]

This would be rare time I would be happy with an Ernie Grunfeld decision. Now the real task, if MKG is going to be the choice, is to complement a Wall/MKG led team with skilled guys to space the floor. We'll need to address both the SG & PF position going forward.

I feel even more emboldened that MKG is the right choice considering how the MJ-led Bobcats are so willing to pass on him.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Darn, I think OKC is less-likely to part with their 28th pick the way this series is going.

But, if Harden continues to struggle and they get beat by the Heat, they may be willing to part with Harden to save some money if they can get a good draft pick in return.

Westbrook has played fairly well, but I still think he is the guy they move if they make a big move. It is not so much that Harden or Ibaka are that much better, but there seem to be a variety of options available at PG.

Westbrook and Durant are 23. Harden is 22. Scott Brooks is a really good coach who has these guys playing in the Finals at a very young age. I think Presti will lock Harden up long term. Along with Ibaka this young core can dominate for 10 years.

Harden is the new Ginobili of sixth men and I don't see him going anywhere. Neither is Westbrook IMO.

[omegatronic3]

I dont see Charlotte taking MKG because they really need a franchise guy and because of his speech problems MKG will not be a good marketing tool.

In Washington though he wouldnt have to be because Wall has that wrapped up. This will be a big year for Wall. This is where he has to deliver the goods and I dont see MKG as being a bust. He may not be a superstar but hes a nice piece. On the other hand I would say Beal, Robinson and Barnes all have bust potential.

If Charlotte keeps the pick I see them taking Robinson, Beal or Barnes.

For us we can grab a FA 2 guard to stretch the floor like Michael Redd. The 2 guard can stretch the floor while Wall and MKG attack the rim

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Our drafts always leak. Everyone knew we were taking Vesley last year and we did. I fully expect us to take MKG. Difference is, I actually like MKG and think he'll be a hell of a player in time. Only issue with him is it once again gives us a talented young player who can't shoot.

The Vesely pick was indeed leaked. But nobody saw the McGee pick coming. Or the Booker pick. Or the Seraphin pick. Or the Pecherov pick. Or the Young pick. Or the Mike Miller trade.

I distinctly remember the Pecherov pick was leaked and Chad Ford was all over it. I remember Ford writing that Pecherov was EG's guy at least a week or two before the draft. The Miller trade was *leaked* several hours before it occurred so technically that wasn't a completely blindside. It was reported the Wiz and Wolves were in negotiations for the pick, but I'll give this one to you as the new broke and the trade was completed all within the same day. The others were completely out of the blue picks.

Yep, Upper Decker. I remember saying Millsap would be a better pick than Pecherov when the rumors came out. I hated the idea of Pecherov before he was picked.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

The McGee picked surprised everyone on this board when it happened. I remember that distinctly. Nobody had McGee on their radar.

Are you certain? I remember almost nobody here wanting McGee to be the pick, but like jivelikenice, I thought the rumor mills and mocks and such always had him ranked pretty high on our board. And just on a personal level, I don't recall at all be surprised by the choice (though I do remember feeling disappointed), and I'm someone who barely follows most draft talk.

I remember it this way, too, MJG. Hibbert was the guy we wanted. I remember liking DeAndre Jordan.

I honestly can't remember hating on McGee before he was picked, but I think I said I liked Fazekas, Sessions, and Kemp at Nevada but not Javale--before McGee was that pick.
(Just like my post before on Pecherov I am going by my memory. I THINK I didn't like those before they went down, but memory fades with time.)

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

The McGee picked surprised everyone on this board when it happened. I remember that distinctly. Nobody had McGee on their radar.

Are you certain? I remember almost nobody here wanting McGee to be the pick, but like jivelikenice, I thought the rumor mills and mocks and such always had him ranked pretty high on our board. And just on a personal level, I don't recall at all be surprised by the choice (though I do remember feeling disappointed), and I'm someone who barely follows most draft talk.

That's what I was thinking. I recall him being linked to us in a couple of mocks and I remember going into that draft hoping that we didn't select him because he was such a work in progress. It did not surprise me at all when we took him.

That is it. One pick after Hibbert went, too.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I read that Damian Lillard had an off-the-charts workout w/ Portland.

So much for trading 3 for 6 and 11.

The latest DR mock has Jenkins dropping to us; we pick him at 32 -- over both Will Barton and Doron Lamb. Anybody *really* like Jenkins?

It's interesting to compare Jenkins and Lamb -- their numbers are almost identical, with the sole difference that Jenkins shot 10.4 3-pointers (!) every 40 minutes, and Lamb 1/2 as many -- 5.2. Neither of them rebounds at all, and neither posts any assists to speak of. Neither turns it over or steals it much, or fouls much. Both had outstanding TS% -- and essentially that's it.

But Barton is an altogether different kind of player -- he wasn't nearly the efficient scorer that either of the other guys was; but still he wasn't bad. And he is a very good rebounder. Helps himself w/ assists as well.

Plus, he approved significantly in virtually everything from freshman to sophomore year. He'd be a hard guy to pass up. If we were able to get him and Crowder, and then pick up Denmon undrafted, I'd feel like we probably snagged 3 guys who could have solid, ten-year NBA careers.

Those are my three of my four favorite players in this draft. Tyler Zeller is the other.

Barton can play SG on his passing alone IMO. I believe his shooting wouldn't be worse than Crawford's.

[hands11]

CCJ, what about this

Wall/Kirk/Mack
Beal/Crawford/Mason
C Singleton/J Singleton/Crowder
Nene/Booker/Dray
Ves/Kevin/Zeller

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

But Barton is an altogether different kind of player -- he wasn't nearly the efficient scorer that either of the other guys was; but still he wasn't bad. And he is a very good rebounder. Helps himself w/ assists as well.

Plus, he approved significantly in virtually everything from freshman to sophomore year. He'd be a hard guy to pass up. If we were able to get him and Crowder, and then pick up Denmon undrafted, I'd feel like we probably snagged 3 guys who could have solid, ten-year NBA careers.

Will Bartin had embarrassingly bad athleticism scores. His lane agility was slower than everybody in this draft class except Sullinger (and he only barely beat Sullinger). His full court sprint was slower than every projected guard or small forward in the draft. His max vertical was also lower than every other guard or small forward.

Crowder's height and reach changed in a week. Athleticism scores change depending on who is timing, where, and how the athlete responds that day.

I don't care what Barton's athleticism scores are. I have seen his stats and I know his background from HS, Prep School, both years at Memphis, how he is a leader, how his younger brother followed him and their upbringing, etc. Barton's stats could point to him being another Chris Douglas Roberts but I doubt it. Will Barton will be a successful NBA player. He is one of the best SG prospects in this draft class.

[WizarDynasty]

deep playoff teams are built around superstar bigmen. the most agile 270lb player in the history of the nba may be sitting there. Leonsis, make sure you hit the over rule button at the end of the day if someone is pushing you to grab an undersized guard or unskilled forward.

[Knighthonor]

what about

MKG vs Harrison Barnes
at the SF/SG?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd_hMlNZmuM[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOzb2-WghjY[/youtube]

just in case Beal goes at number 2.

[Ruzious]

I think one reason that Beal ranks low with Hollinger is because of his lackluster 3-point percentage. If you pay no attention to the hype and look solely at the numbers, it's not surprising that Beal doesn't surpass the other guards in his draft class. I think most other mock drafts are discounting his mediocre 3-point percentage as an aberration because of his track record in high school and in international ball. Whether that's wise or not remains to be seen.

I certainly hope that Hollinger is not grading Beal low simply because of his 3 pt percentage. If so, he's ignoring a ton of evidence that says that those numbers are almost certainly an aberration. Then again Hollinger has Terrell Stoglin rated ahead of guys like Moe Harkless, Jae Crowder and John Jenkins. So maybe it's Hollinger's rankings (and not Beal's shooting) that's suspect.

Imo, in the last 10 years or so, Hollinger has gone from very insightful to somewhat interesting to usually wrong.

[jimij]

This would be rare time I would be happy with an Ernie Grunfeld decision. Now the real task, if MKG is going to be the choice, is to complement a Wall/MKG led team with skilled guys to space the floor. We'll need to address both the SG & PF position going forward.

I feel even more emboldened that MKG is the right choice considering how the MJ-led Bobcats are so willing to pass on him.

OK, now I'm sold. We have to take MKG!

Early on I was completely in the tank for MKG, then I wavered and was very interested in Beal especially due to roster construction issues and our lack of shooting moreso than liking the player himself (although I do like him). If the rumors are true and MKG is the pick, I'll be extremely happy to get such a high motor guy to add to our roster. We will definitely have the potential to be a top-five defensive team year in and year out.

I have no interest in Barnes and his brand and just don't feel like Robinson is enough of an upgrade to our frontcourt (I'm still high Ves as our PF of the future) and Andre Drummond is kryptonite to winning. Count me back on the MKG bandwagon.

[Ruzious]

You can't build a team successfully around 2 perimeter players with no shooting range - no matter who you add. You can excuse it in a PG; you can't in a SF you're picking at 3. Unless MKG is showing in workouts that he's completely changing his shooting form - and we have no evidence that that's happened - there's no chance I'd consider him at 3. His offensive skills are way overrated. The only things he does well offensively are run the floor, drive to the hoop, dunk, and hit the offensive boards. He can't shoot with even mid-range, because his shooting on the way down is going to get blocked in the NBA if there's anyone within 10 feet of him. He's a mediocre ball-handler and can't handle in traffic. Contrary to a ton of posts here, he doesn't create shots for teammates. There is no Pippenesque point forward ability that he's shown - not even close. We drafted Vesely at 6 last year. If Vesely was a mistake, drafting MKG at 3 compounds the mistake and creates another.