Official Trade Thread XIX: 3/14/12 - 6/22/12

[nate33]

Lowry posted a PER of 18 and he plays great D. He's definitely a starter in this league, arguably even an above-average starter.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

TGW, I have been kind of down about family court issues, money, and people dying. On top of that, I temporarily misplaced my IPhone and now Sprint won't let me have my phone number back. LOTS of annoying crap going on.

Have you ever played organized football? There is a drill called bull in the ring that I remember doing way back in the way.

I think when I get overstressed in life I take things way too seriously. I spent about 20 hours on the IPhone thing and Sprint STILL has me under a new contract and no phone line. That one and stuff I won't share have me really upset. Sorry if my posts have been really over the edge but I will flat out admit I've been really depressed of late. But no worries, I know this, too, shall pass. Life is like that some times. It gets better. My great-grandmother would say, "Just keep living." She lived to be, 105 BTW.

(Might have to live another 54 years to recoup losses from this divorce. )

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I'm not disagreeing with you that we get good players back (btw, stop taking things so personal, it's just a message board, dude). I'm disagreeing with you that this is a good trade for the Wizards simply because it's bad asset management. Unlike Nate, I disagree that the Rox wouldn't trade Lowry and some low round picks for the #3. I think they would do it without hesitation...Lowry is hardly some superstar (probably an ideal backup point guard on a good team) and the picks they give up are in the 20's. The Rox is a team that's clearly missing a star player, and I'm sure they would jump at the chance to get a potential one high up on the draft board.

From the Wizards' perspective, I don't see how getting more point guards and power forwards (none of which are currently better than what we have now) benefit the Wiz. I like Patterson a ton, but is he much better than Book? Is Crowder, who I like as well, much better than Book? Ehhh...I'd rather take a chance of getting a super-high potential guy like MKG over 3-4 solid guys, even if MKG has a potential to bust. You can't win a championship without stars.

TGW, if Beal turned into a superstar then Rox win that deal. I think IF he does it won't be for 3-5 years, and I don't think he will. I can see him being Mitch Richmond meets Ray Allen and a 20ppg scorer, a little better than Eric Gordon. Beal is a good player but he doesn't have elite explosiveness.

You and I see Lowry pretty much the same way. Ideally, he is a GREAT backup on a good team.

What I believe is Crowder is a SF and he will be Artest-like. His insanely high NCAA PER -- great steals with assists and very few turnovers and being a tremendous finisher who can step out and hit a three makes Crowder seem to me to be a good SF starter in the NBA. What I would be gambling on is Crowder as a player nearly on a par potentially with Beal. This is where I would be taking a real big gamble.

Jenkins is just a nice shooter/scorer. In the same conference as Beal, Jenkins lit up everybody including Kentucky.

I appreciate your feedback, and I see you just don't like Lowry and you think these guys (including Patterson) are PFs. I see the deal as getting shooters and Lowry, who I really value.

[Ruzious]

Ouch, good luck, CCJ. I hate how our court systems in general favor women too much in divorces. Speaking of which - but way off topic, yesterday I finished watching a Australian tv miniseries called Cloud Street - about 2 families going through hardships together. It's very depressing a lot of the time, but it somehow left me with a good feeling, because they mostly followed your grandmother's advice.

[TGW]

CCJ, I like Lowry alot. He was better than Wall last season, clearly. But I'm not trading the #3 in ANY draft for the guy. I'd rather shoot for the moon than settle for the stars, so to speak.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

My latest use the #3 to move Blatche idea:

Wizards trade #3 pick, Blatche, Crawford to Houston for #21, #22, Kyle Lowry, and Patrick Patterson

--This deal gets veteran leadership, shooting at multiple positions while getting rid of Blatche with Crawford. It gives up a high lotto but gets two firsts (*see below who I would draft)

Patterson led the SEC in eFG before Wall came to Kentucky. Jenkins led in eFG and TS and is one of the nation's best shooters. Crowder led the Big East in eFG. Kyle Lowry is a great NBA three point shooter.

*Washington with #21 drafts Jae Crowder and with #22 they select John Jenkins
As good as Beal is, right now Jenkins is a better pure shooter. Crowder is a beast.

Thoughts?

I like a lot of those players, but I think quality beats quantity, so I'd have to say no - though Lowry is such an intriguing player.

I really like this response. Unlike my posts it is short and sweet. Nothing to argue with here.

The quantity reasons for my idea are taking Blatche away is good and taking Crawford's bad shots away is even better. What intrigues me, Ruz, about Lowry is he won with three guards (including Foye) in college. I could see the Wizards being like that Villanova team, but pressing and trapping won't go for 48 minutes in the NBA. Beal SHOULD be quality-wise a really good player. It really is quantity vs quality.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Ouch, good luck, CCJ. I hate how our court systems in general favor women too much in divorces. Speaking of which - but way off topic, yesterday I finished watching a Australian tv miniseries called Cloud Street - about 2 families going through hardships together. It's very depressing a lot of the time, but it somehow left me with a good feeling, because they mostly followed your grandmother's advice.

It really is amazing, Ruz. This judge buys my ex-wife's BS, totally. I just have to stay lawyered up, no matter how much it is killing me. It is what it is.

[jimij]

CCJ - personally I don't think there's a chance in hell that Houston trades Lowry and the 21/22 picks to us for #3. Of course, the main reason for that is, those are Boston's picks....Houston has 14 & 16.

[Ruzious]

Ouch, good luck, CCJ. I hate how our court systems in general favor women too much in divorces. Speaking of which - but way off topic, yesterday I finished watching a Australian tv miniseries called Cloud Street - about 2 families going through hardships together. It's very depressing a lot of the time, but it somehow left me with a good feeling, because they mostly followed your grandmother's advice.

It really is amazing, Ruz. This judge buys my ex-wife's BS, totally. I just have to stay lawyered up, no matter how much it is killing me. It is what it is.

I'm no expert, but I'd say if you have a lawyer you trust - just follow his advice and don't let your emotions get out of hand. Good luck, CCJ.

The 14th pick could be a very good spot to pick. There's going to be a talented (if not good) player that will slip down there - maybe a guy like Moultrie. I'd consider Vesely and next year's 1st for Lowry and the 14th pick (partly because I don't think next year's draft will be good). Moultrie's got a lot of athletic ability. I question his consistency of effort - especially after him playing a year with Sidney - and maybe playing with Nene and Seraphin would get him on track. I think he weighed in at 233 - if he adds another 12-15 lbs, Moultrie can play center in today's small ball NBA.

[Upper Decker]

I don't know why, and I have nothing to base this off but I'm intrigued by Moultrie. He has good length for a PF, scouts say he's a good perimeter shooter and should be a solid rebounder in the pro's. Seems like a good fit, but I don't know much about him, and I don't see how the Wiz get a late lotto/mid-first to pick him up.

[FAH1223]

I don't know why, and I have nothing to base this off but I'm intrigued by Moultrie. He has good length for a PF, scouts say he's a good perimeter shooter and should be a solid rebounder in the pro's. Seems like a good fit, but I don't know much about him, and I don't see how the Wiz get a late lotto/mid-first to pick him up.

horrible defender

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

CCJ - personally I don't think there's a chance in hell that Houston trades Lowry and the 21/22 picks to us for #3. Of course, the main reason for that is, those are Boston's picks....Houston has 14 & 16.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Ouch, good luck, CCJ. I hate how our court systems in general favor women too much in divorces. Speaking of which - but way off topic, yesterday I finished watching a Australian tv miniseries called Cloud Street - about 2 families going through hardships together. It's very depressing a lot of the time, but it somehow left me with a good feeling, because they mostly followed your grandmother's advice.

It really is amazing, Ruz. This judge buys my ex-wife's BS, totally. I just have to stay lawyered up, no matter how much it is killing me. It is what it is.

I'm no expert, but I'd say if you have a lawyer you trust - just follow his advice and don't let your emotions get out of hand. Good luck, CCJ.

The 14th pick could be a very good spot to pick. There's going to be a talented (if not good) player that will slip down there - maybe a guy like Moultrie. I'd consider Vesely and next year's 1st for Lowry and the 14th pick (partly because I don't think next year's draft will be good). Moultrie's got a lot of athletic ability. I question his consistency of effort - especially after him playing a year with Sidney - and maybe playing with Nene and Seraphin would get him on track. I think he weighed in at 233 - if he adds another 12-15 lbs, Moultrie can play center in today's small ball NBA.

Thanks. I have a really good attorney, Ruz. He hasn't let me down and I've learned to be quiet and let him do the talking. Tried going it alone but that wasn't working for me...

I can't see the Rockets being interested in Vesely since they drafted Parsons last year. I did not like what I saw of Moultrie, after being real interested for a while.

[hands11]

I'm not disagreeing with you that we get good players back (btw, stop taking things so personal, it's just a message board, dude). I'm disagreeing with you that this is a good trade for the Wizards simply because it's bad asset management. Unlike Nate, I disagree that the Rox wouldn't trade Lowry and some low round picks for the #3. I think they would do it without hesitation...Lowry is hardly some superstar (probably an ideal backup point guard on a good team) and the picks they give up are in the 20's. The Rox is a team that's clearly missing a star player, and I'm sure they would jump at the chance to get a potential one high up on the draft board.

From the Wizards' perspective, I don't see how getting more point guards and power forwards (none of which are currently better than what we have now) benefit the Wiz. I like Patterson a ton, but is he much better than Book? Is Crowder, who I like as well, much better than Book? Ehhh...I'd rather take a chance of getting a super-high potential guy like MKG over 3-4 solid guys, even if MKG has a potential to bust. You can't win a championship without stars.

TGW, if Beal turned into a superstar then Rox win that deal. I think IF he does it won't be for 3-5 years, and I don't think he will. I can see him being Mitch Richmond meets Ray Allen and a 20ppg scorer, a little better than Eric Gordon. Beal is a good player but he doesn't have elite explosiveness.

You and I see Lowry pretty much the same way. Ideally, he is a GREAT backup on a good team.

What I believe is Crowder is a SF and he will be Artest-like. His insanely high NCAA PER -- great steals with assists and very few turnovers and being a tremendous finisher who can step out and hit a three makes Crowder seem to me to be a good SF starter in the NBA. What I would be gambling on is Crowder as a player nearly on a par potentially with Beal. This is where I would be taking a real big gamble.

Jenkins is just a nice shooter/scorer. In the same conference as Beal, Jenkins lit up everybody including Kentucky.

I appreciate your feedback, and I see you just don't like Lowry and you think these guys (including Patterson) are PFs. I see the deal as getting shooters and Lowry, who I really value.

Dude that sucks. I hope getting it off your chest helps. Sometimes **** just piles up. We have all been there. But for sure, A good focused attitude is a good way to get through it. Just do the next right thing and build from there. You'll get to the good stuff again.

[fugop]

In light of the news that Chicago may want to trade Deng for a lotto pick, what about something like this:

Washington trades:
#3 Pick
Rashard Lewis

Washington receives:
#6 pick
Luol Deng
Kyl Korver
CJ Watson

Portland trades:
#6 pick
#11 pick

Portland receives:
#3 pick

Chicago trades:
Luol Deng
Kyle Korver
CJ Watson

Chicago Receives:
#11 pick
Rashard Lewis


With the #6, we take Waiters, or Beal if he falls. Our lineup next year:

Wall/Watson/Mack
(Beal-Waiters)/Korver/Crawford
Deng/Singleton
Vesely/Booker
Nene/Seraphin

Watson and Korver would be on expiring deals. Deng has another year left on his deal. Deng is 27 years old, but has an injury history.

[mlloyd10]

Would you guys be interested in Udoh/12 for Blatche/3?

[fugop]

Would you guys be interested in Udoh/12 for Blatche/3?

No. Getting rid of Blatche isn't a high priority, so long as we can amnesty him.

[fishercob]

Here are two proposed three ways, both building on the Redick/Hedo/#19 for Lewis idea that I won't shut up about:

Option 1:

WAS trades: Lewis
Was gets: Redick, Hedo, Mo Williams, #19

Similar rationale to the original trade, but they also get Mo Williams, who is a good fit backing up Wall and playing beside him. He's an expiring contract who could potentially be re-dealt at the deadline

Orl trades: Redick, Hedo, J-Rich, #19
Orl gets; Lewis (cut)

Orlando saves even more money by including Richardson in the deal

LAC trades: Mo Williams
LAC gets: RIchardson

Clippers actually save a good chunk of change this season and get a much needed veteran wing scorer with good size. While not as explosive, Richardson is much more reliable and consistent than Nick Young, who the Clip would let walk.

Option 2

Orlando portion is the same: Hedo, Redick, J-Rich, #19 for Lewis, but this time Minnesota is included

MIN trades: Miller or Webster, 2013 Memphis pick
MIN gets: Richardson, #32

Minnesota continues it's forward movement with a solid veteran wing shooter/scorer with size and a high second rounder in a deep a very deep draft.

WAS trades: Lewis, #32
WAS gets: Hedo, Redick, #19, Mem '13 first

WIth roster space tight, the Wizards add an asset to be used next year.

Which option makes more sense for all proposed parties?

[nate33]

In light of the news that Chicago may want to trade Deng for a lotto pick, what about something like this:

Washington trades:
#3 Pick
Rashard Lewis

Washington receives:
#6 pick
Luol Deng
Kyl Korver
CJ Watson

Portland trades:
#6 pick
#11 pick

Portland receives:
#3 pick

Chicago trades:
Luol Deng
Kyle Korver
CJ Watson

Chicago Receives:
#11 pick
Rashard Lewis


With the #6, we take Waiters, or Beal if he falls. Our lineup next year:

Wall/Watson/Mack
(Beal-Waiters)/Korver/Crawford
Deng/Singleton
Vesely/Booker
Nene/Seraphin

Watson and Korver would be on expiring deals. Deng has another year left on his deal. Deng is 27 years old, but has an injury history.

That would be an incredible trade for us!

I could see Chicago going for it too. They get younger and tank for a season while Rose is out while grooming their #11 pick. Meanwhile, they clear a bunch of cap room and prepare to reload for the 2013/14 season when Rose gets back. It's a bold move that requires one step back to move two steps forward, but there's logic to it.

Portland is the big question. I don't think they trade #6 + #11 for #3. Not in this draft.

[LyricalRico]

Here are two proposed three ways, both building on the Redick/Hedo/#19 for Lewis idea that I won't shut up about:

Assuming that the primary reason for these trades is that you're eating Hedo's contract (granted, the final year of his deal is only partially guaranteed) in order to get Redick+19, I can see where you're coming from. But I don't see Orlando giving up that much just to move a partially guaranteed contract.