Jonas Valanciunas Summer Discussion Thread (Olympics!)

ATLTimekeeper · Post #401 » by **ATLTimekeeper** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:23 pm

xprt wrote:So I read in Lith press that Colangelo said he got offer from some team to move up in lottery in expense of giving Val rights but he refused. Anyone heard this?

We don't know what the offer was or what team it came from. The reporter presumed it was Valanciunas. Colangelo has never moved up in a draft (at least not with the Raptors) and always claims the price is too high.

I should also mention this writer is almost always out to lunch.

UcanUwill · Post #402 » by **UcanUwill** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:35 pm

Re: What if?

It would be on Jonas, not Colangelo. Brian made the right moves, some of them were a little risky, but thats just how world works. If VAL busts badly, it will be one of those S**t happens situations.

What was the gamble? He picked BPA.

dude u have never seen the kid play against nba competition.

Hm... Yes, he did... We all did.

barrist · Post #403 » by **barrist** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:37 pm

I'm guessing Sojourn ( who sounds like he's craving some attention today ) has never seen him play period.

As for NBA competition, he's played against other NBA draftees, Kanter, Kristic, Mosgov, etc.

raptor21_85 · Post #404 » by **raptor21_85** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:14 pm

Some analysts also said JV would go second after Davis in this upcoming draft.. why to trade him then??

Raptor_Claw · Post #405 » by **Raptor_Claw** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:48 pm

UcanUwill wrote:Federation can afford a lot, and I bet most coaches would love to coach Lithuanian national team. The thing is, Lithuania has 100% locals policy, that means all players and head coach must be Lithuanians. The problem is, Lithuanian coaches suck...

However, Kemzura is ok. I take him over Ilias Zouros, or Sergio Scariolo any day. I have some doubts from last year, but he proved himself in 2010 and dont forget that. Last coach, Butautas, was a complete disaster, so having Kemzura is like a treat.

Scariolo is an awful coach, so that's not saying much.

Rapsfan4life · Post #406 » by **Rapsfan4life** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:02 pm

So I just posted a thread that got locked and was told to come here.. anyway my question is how good do you guys think Val can be

I haven't watched a full game of his, but I've seen hours of highlights and to me he looks like he'll be able to beat a lot of bigs of the dribble kinda like chris bosh, he seems like he has a pretty good post game against guys his size (probably going to struggle until he gets stronger in the NBA) and he has a silky smooth jumper from 15 feet and in. On the defensive end it seems like he is a good help defender, will probably average 1.5-2 blocks a game for his career just based on height and length and he is pretty good at timing shots. I can see him struggling a lot on man to man defense because of his lack of strength. So what I am seeing here is his lack of strength is his most glaring weakness, so my question for you is how good (realistically) do you think he can be in a couple of years once he bulks up and understands the NBA game.

nahom1319 · Post #407 » by **nahom1319** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:04 pm

Rapsfan4life wrote:So I just posted a thread that got locked and was told to come here.. anyway my question is how good do you guys think Val can be

I haven't watched a full game of his, but I've seen hours of highlights and to me he looks like he'll be able to beat a lot of bigs of the dribble kinda like chris bosh,.

I stopped reading right there.... :roll:

Rapsfan4life · Post #408 » by **Rapsfan4life** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:08 pm

nahom1319 wrote:
Rapsfan4life wrote:So I just posted a thread that got locked and was told to come here.. anyway my question is how good do you guys think Val can be

I haven't watched a full game of his, but I've seen hours of highlights and to me he looks like he'll be able to beat a lot of bigs of the dribble kinda like chris bosh,.

I stopped reading right there....

defiantly not as good or smooth as bosh is but I don't see many bigs being able to guard him off the dribble with his speed for a centre

UcanUwill · Post #409 » by **UcanUwill** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:09 pm

My best possible prognosis is.

17 ppg. on a great efficiency, 12 rebounds per game (dominant rebounder), 3rd best center in the league, never a top defender.
If player X, was rich man's Biedrins, Valanciunas would be rich man's player X.

Volcano · Post #410 » by **Volcano** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:27 pm

I think the feeling around JV is an upside of prime Pau Gasol level (better defense, worse offense). Strong possibility of a Joakim Noah level.

Raptor_Claw · Post #411 » by **Raptor_Claw** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:42 pm

Rapsfan4life wrote:So I just posted a thread that got locked and was told to come here.. anyway my question is how good do you guys think Val can be

I haven't watched a full game of his, but I've seen hours of highlights and to me he looks like he'll be able to beat a lot of bigs of the dribble kinda like chris bosh, he seems like he has a pretty good post game against guys his size (probably going to struggle until he gets stronger in the NBA) and he has a silky smooth jumper from 15 feet and in. On the defensive end it seems like he is a good help defender, will probably average 1.5-2 blocks a game for his career just based on height and length and he is pretty good at timing shots. I can see him struggling a lot on man to man defense because of his lack of strength. So what I am seeing here is his lack of strength is his most glaring weakness, so my question for you is how good (realistically) do you think he can be in a couple of years once he bulks up and understands the NBA game.

I don't see him as similar to Bosh myself. Valaciunas is a classic center. He needs to get better in the low post area, both on offense and defense.

Rapsfan4life wrote:defiantly not as good or smooth as bosh is but I don't see many bigs being able to guard him off the dribble with his speed for a centre

Valanciunas not a face up player.

Volcano wrote:I think the feeling around JV is an upside of prime Pau Gasol level (better defense, worse offense). Strong possibility of a Joakim Noah level.

I don't see how Valanciunas is like Gasol at all. I honestly don't get the Noah comparison one bit. I agree with Ucan. Valanciunas is like a more rich man's Biedrins, but with some actual skills. I mean, Biedrens can't even hit a free throw.

UcanUwill · Post #412 » by **UcanUwill** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:26 pm

Valanciunas is not a face up player, but his go to move is face up pump fake and drive, and he has deadly first step, which helps him to beat most bigs of the dribble, so Rapsfan4life is correct. Jonas lacks handles and of the dribble shot to be face up big, but talking about one particular face up move, which is this move ↓ , he is practically unguardable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1Bunu1lUoE&t=5m19s

Raptor_Claw · Post #413 » by **Raptor_Claw** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:31 pm

UcanUwill wrote:Valanciunas is not a face up player, but his go to move is face up pump fake and drive, and he has deadly first step, which helps him to beat most bigs of the dribble, so Rapsfan4life is correct. Jonas lacks handles and of the dribble shot to be face up big, but talking about one particular face up move, which is this move ↓ , he is practically unguardable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1Bunu1lUoE&t=5m19s

Bosh is a very good jump shooter, with long shooting range. That is what makes him a good face up player. So you can't compare it. A pump fake does not work if players stop going for it.

nahom1319 · Post #414 » by **nahom1319** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:53 pm

UcanUwill wrote:Valanciunas is not a face up player, but his go to move is face up pump fake and drive, and he has deadly first step, which helps him to beat most bigs of the dribble, so Rapsfan4life is correct. Jonas lacks handles and of the dribble shot to be face up big, but talking about one particular face up move, which is this move ↓ , he is practically unguardable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1Bunu1lUoE&t=5m19s

yeah but most of those drives are with 1 dribble. When I think of bosh attacking off the bounce its something more like this
[youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsQIkmx2zWI[/youtube]

Rapsfan4life · Post #415 » by **Rapsfan4life** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:54 pm

Raptor_Claw wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:Valanciunas is not a face up player, but his go to move is face up pump fake and drive, and he has deadly first step, which helps him to beat most bigs of the dribble, so Rapsfan4life is correct. Jonas lacks handles and of the dribble shot to be face up big, but talking about one particular face up move, which is this move ↓ , he is practically unguardable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1Bunu1lUoE&t=5m19s

Bosh is a very good jump shooter, with long shooting range. That is what makes him a good face up player. So you can't compare it. A pump fake does not work if players stop going for it.

im pretty confident Val will become a good mid range jump shooter in a couple years so defenders are going to have to guard him and he will beat ppl with the pump fake

UcanUwill · Post #416 » by **UcanUwill** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:58 pm

Raptor_Claw wrote:Bosh is a very good jump shooter, with long shooting range. That is what makes him a good face up player. So you can't compare it. A pump fake does not work if players stop going for it.

Thats the beauty part. It sounds so easy, but its not. VAL never fakes a shot he cant make, so defenses should pay attention to him no matter what. His shot is quite unorthodox, it is fairly quick and he never actually jumps, he is still standing on his feet when releases the shot. Even from a third person point of view, it is very hard to tell is that a fake or a shot, thats why its so deadly. I mean look at Bargs' fake, its embarrassingly obvious, but it still works. Val always has number of options, when a fake fails, he still keeps the ball high in shooting motion position, so he can pull a trigger and go for a shot. And if opponent is in his face, he can still try beat him of dribble using his superior first step, even though fake failed.

Let me illustrate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tX8mJ_el6c&t=1m8s

(1:08) Jonas sends an early message, takes a wild open 19 footer and scores. Next time, defense will instinctively try to contest that shot, and thats exactly what happens, (1:32) Jonas fakes Pau and 1 second later he is inside, gets his 2+1.

nahom1319 wrote:yeah but most of those drives are with 1 dribble. When I think of bosh attacking off the bounce its something more like this

And I am talking about one move. And sometimes, thats all you really need. Overall, Bosh is by far better face up player, no one argues with it. Rapsfan4life said he can beat bigs KINDA Like a Bosh, he didnt said he will be as good as Bosh.

KarolisJ · Post #417 » by **KarolisJ** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:08 pm

UcanUwill wrote:
Raptor_Claw wrote:Bosh is a very good jump shooter, with long shooting range. That is what makes him a good face up player. So you can't compare it. A pump fake does not work if players stop going for it.

Thats the beauty part. It sounds so easy, but its not. VAL never fakes a shot he cant make, so defenses should pay attention to him no matter what. His shot is quite unorthodox, it is fairly quick and he never actually jumps, he is still standing on his feet when releases the shot. Even from a third person point of view, it is very hard to tell is that a fake or a shot, thats why its so deadly. I mean look at Bargs' fake, its embarrassingly obvious, but it still works. Val always has number of options, when a fake fails, he still keeps the ball high in shooting motion position, so he can pull a trigger and go for a shot. And if opponent is in his face, he can still try beat him of dribble using his superior first step, even though fake failed.

Let me illustrate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tX8mJ_el6c&t=1m8s

(1:08) Jonas sends an early message, takes a wild open 19 footer and scores. Next time, defense will instinctively try to contest that shot, and thats exactly what happens, (1:32) Jonas fakes Pau and 1 second later he is inside, gets his 2+1.

nahom1319 wrote:yeah but most of those drives are with 1 dribble. When I think of bosh attacking off the bounce its something more like this

And I am talking about one move. And sometimes, thats all you really need. Overall, Bosh is by far better face up player, no one argues with it. Rapsfan4life said he can beat bigs KINDA Like a Bosh, he didnt said he will be as good as Bosh.

That's what the Kleiza said in that video

MEDIC · Post #418 » by **MEDIC** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:31 pm

nahom1319 wrote:yeah but most of those drives are with 1 dribble. When I think of bosh attacking off the bounce its something more like this
[youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsQIkmx2zWI[/youtube]

Most of Bosh's drives are 1 or 2 dribbles. He normally operates between 15-20 feet.

The video footage that you showed was a rare play by Bosh. You'd think he was making plays like that night in & night out.

RINSE · Post #419 » by **RINSE** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:37 pm

Came here to post that I watched the Jonas RapsTV special again last night, super excited to have this kid join the team next season!

MEDIC · Post #420 » by **MEDIC** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:41 pm

UcanUwill wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tX8mJ_el6c&t=1m8s.

I love how fired up Jonas gets. I hope he brings that same passion/ energy to the NBA. Fans here will adore him if he does.

Haven't watched footage of him in a while. Damn he's skilled for a 20 yo 7 footer.

He's gonna be a hell of a player in the NBA. Has a chance to be the best of that draft class.