1st rd pick general discussion #2 overall (Poll Added)

[James Gatz]

As for Robinson, he was a good rebounder in college where he was bigger than most players, but in the league he'll be smaller than most of his opponents,

Rebounding translate to NBA. He's height will hurt him in other aspects of the game but he would instantly become the best rebounder on this team.

The more I ponder the less and less I want MKG. He's my type of player, works hard, loves the game, but I just don't think he is what the franchise needs at 2. I want either T-Rob or Beal. I don't understand why people are so sold on Robinson being a safe pick with little upside. He's not a star but I could easily see him making a few allstar games. Beal would give us scoring and a secondary ball handler to play next to Kemba.

[raleigh]

From DX:

Harrison Barnes points per possession on: catch-and-shoot/no dribbles: 1.39 PPP, 1 dribble: 0.86 PPP, 2+ dribbles: 0.64 PPP

Barnes is obviously an NBA-caliber catch-n-shoot guy. He's good solid size and athleticism for the NBA SF position.

But the book on him is already out even before he steps on the floor, and the DX video profile on him mentions it - get him to put the ball on the floor and force him to take a few dribbles...

[BeesWax]

From DX:
Barnes is obviously an NBA-caliber catch-n-shoot guy. He's good solid size and athleticism for the NBA SF position.

But the book on him is already out even before he steps on the floor, and the DX video profile on him mentions it - get him to put the ball on the floor and force him to take a few dribbles...

I agree with you to a point. But Barnes matched up against smaller quicker opponents in college who were also allowed to hand check. His game should open up a little more at the next level because the rules are set up that way. His mid range game should actually get better because it is easier to create space. I am still not for Barnes but I would take him over Beal in a heartbeat.

[fatlever]

the biggest concern on barnes (i posted an article about this in his thread) is that he doesnt contribute much in other areas. average rebounder, low assists, low steals, low blocks. ideally you want your small forward to be versatile and also to be a scorer. barnes had one of the lowest ASB/40 numbers of any highly drafted small forward in recent history.

[Bassman]

the biggest concern on barnes (i posted an article about this in his thread) is that he doesnt contribute much in other areas. average rebounder, low assists, low steals, low blocks. ideally you want your small forward to be versatile and also to be a scorer. barnes had one of the lowest ASB/40 numbers of any highly drafted small forward in recent history.

Indeed Fats...Barnes would certainly be in the discussion if we were to trade down w/Portland for 6 & 11, and maybe even at 4. I still see (in order) Robinson, Beal, MKG & possibly Drummond as better options before Barnes.

[BigSlam]

I'd take Q.Miller as our SF before Barnes.

Barnes has the (much) better body (physically and zero ACL blow out history) but that's really the only thing that he has over Miller IMO.

Miller is just as good at the catch and shoot.
Miller has just as much range.
Miller has a higher ceiling (IMO).
Miller can create his own shot.
Miller is a better passer.
Miller is a better rebounder.
Miller blocks shots.

[countryboi]

I'd take Q.Miller as our SF before Barnes.

Barnes has the (much) better body (physically and zero ACL blow out history) but that's really the only thing that he has over Miller IMO.

Miller is just as good at the catch and shoot.
Miller has just as much range.
Miller has a higher ceiling (IMO).
Miller can create his own shot.
Miller is a better passer.
Miller is a better rebounder.
Miller blocks shots.

I just dont see what you see in miller....i know how he is going to get his shot off in the NBA moving the way he moves

[Eoghan]

OK.....so what's so foolish about that and if it's so foolish why are their pre-draft measurements?

You said it was the first thing you look at...instead of things like experience, skills, or success.

I think measurements is the best baseline also, it's the least subjective and quantifiable of anything. Experience, skills, or success have to be weighed more in their proper context. You're never gonna draft a guy with terrible size for his position unless he absolutely displays some highly elite skill.

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Watched some more game tape on Beal and the less and less I like him. He's really slow and loafs about on defense, doesn't move well without the ball and opts to stand in the corner all day and he fights through screens about as well as a preschooler.

The more and more I evaluate these guys, the less and less I see somebody as #2 worthy and the less and less Drummond looks like a reach. He might not be a homerun but he's the closest thing to it and the rest of the crew look like singles at best. It's Drummond, ThoR, MKG (for all his faults he's still a worthwhile project), Lamb, Barnes, and Beal in that order for me. (ignoring biased man-crush pick of Royce White).

[JMAC3]

OK.....so what's so foolish about that and if it's so foolish why are their pre-draft measurements?

You said it was the first thing you look at...instead of things like experience, skills, or success.

I think measurements is the best baseline also, it's the least subjective and quantifiable of anything. Experience, skills, or success have to be weighed more in their proper context. You're never gonna draft a guy with terrible size for his position unless he absolutely displays some highly elite skill.

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Watched some more game tape on Beal and the less and less I like him. He's really slow and loafs about on defense, doesn't move well without the ball and opts to stand in the corner all day and he fights through screens about as well as a preschooler.

The more and more I evaluate these guys, the less and less I see somebody as #2 worthy and the less and less Drummond looks like a reach. He might not be a homerun but he's the closest thing to it and the rest of the crew look like singles at best. It's Drummond, ThoR, MKG (for all his faults he's still a worthwhile project), Lamb, Barnes, and Beal in that order for me. (ignoring biased man-crush pick of Royce White).

Can you post these game tapes of Beal. I have not seen any full game highlights of him. Just to be sure your not making it up so Drummond looks better

[Eoghan]

Can you post these game tapes of Beal. I have not seen any full game highlights of him. Just to be sure your not making it up so Drummond looks better

Go watch the Florida vs Florida St game from earlier this year. Patric Young looked a thousand times better prospect than Beal in that game. All he did was cherry pick from three and he still wasn't even that efficient at that.

[JMAC3]

Can you post these game tapes of Beal. I have not seen any full game highlights of him. Just to be sure your not making it up so Drummond looks better

Go watch the Florida vs Florida St game from earlier this year. Patric Young looked a thousand times better prospect than Beal in that game. All he did was cherry pick from three and he still wasn't even that efficient at that.

Where can I find that at?

So it was just this one game you watched?

[ball teacher]

OK.....so what's so foolish about that and if it's so foolish why are their pre-draft measurements?

You said it was the first thing you look at...instead of things like experience, skills, or success.

I probably should have elaborated more into that. If there was a guy I was interested in picking up, and I saw his game tapes and knew what he brought to the table skillwise, I'd want to see in person what his actual measurements were because the size is very important in this league. If your undersized at your position, you have to be a phenomanal athlete/player to compensate, like D Wade at SG, Hakeem at center, Bogues at the point, or Barkley at PF.

I personally don't like undersized players because I think you handicap yourself by selecting them. Basketball is a big mans game, and the bigger teams normally win, look at the past championship teams and you'll see that every championship team had good size advantages including the Piston team that had the two Wallaces. Even though Ben was a short center, thay had above average size players everywhere else on the floor.

This is just my personal opinion though. With that being said, if we select Robinson at PF our starting lineup would probably look like this.

PG Kemba 6'0 (generous height listing)
SG Henderson 6'5 (maybe 6'4)
SF Maggette 6'6
PF Robinson 6'8
C Biyombo 6'9
That's not a very big team at all, and we're still gonna have a hard time getting points unless Kemba developed a deadly jumper and Henderson learned how to score off the dribble.

[Kembastockton]

I guess it is a good thing that no one is expecting this team to go the nba finals. You guys must believe Myan Calender thing. Cause you act like if the Bobcats don't select the perfact player it is the end as we know it. I think there is a pretty good chance that there will be another nba draft this time next year. Shhh don't tell anyone.

[TheCage4]

You guys should roll the dice on Drummond.

It seems that he is receiving more & more nods that he has the tools to be a top tier player, only behind Davis in terms of overall potential.

Can't play it safe, not after a 7 win season. Swing for the fences!

[Bassman]

You guys should roll the dice on Drummond.

It seems that he is receiving more & more nods that he has the tools to be a top tier player, only behind Davis in terms of overall potential.

Can't play it safe, not after a 7 win season. Swing for the fences!

Nope, gotta show us something to swing for the home run. His workouts so far are doing nothing but seeing draft observers drop him down in their mocks. Of course the beat writers can be easily wrong, but they hear stuff.

Look, I like the guy, I really do. When I see those highlights of him stealing the ball and running down for a jam like a guard, or using his handle to get to the rim, or blocking a shot, he looks awesome. I also see what his game tapes show; inconsistency, lack of drive, fails to really battle with the bigs throughout a game, poor shooting and horrible FT's, etc. Those are BIG red flags to me.

[ohara]

When I think about our new Coach, and people saying he likes a hard worker and wants an up tempo game, it just makes me think about MKG and Beal a lot more than was before this hire. T-Rob can run the floor nicely as well, but the athleticism of MKG and Beal have got to be something that appeals to our new Coach.

[BIG FURB]

I'd take Q.Miller as our SF before Barnes.

Barnes has the (much) better body (physically and zero ACL blow out history) but that's really the only thing that he has over Miller IMO.

Miller is just as good at the catch and shoot.
Miller has just as much range.
Miller has a higher ceiling (IMO).
Miller can create his own shot.
Miller is a better passer.
Miller is a better rebounder.
Miller blocks shots.

And this is all based on what exactly?

[ohara]

updated nbadraft.net mock has us taking Harrison Barnes at #2 now.

[BigSlam]

I'd take Q.Miller as our SF before Barnes.

Barnes has the (much) better body (physically and zero ACL blow out history) but that's really the only thing that he has over Miller IMO.

Miller is just as good at the catch and shoot.
Miller has just as much range.
Miller has a higher ceiling (IMO).
Miller can create his own shot.
Miller is a better passer.
Miller is a better rebounder.
Miller blocks shots.

And this is all based on what exactly?

A combination of my eyes and the Feel-o-meter 2000.

[BigSlam]

I'd take Q.Miller as our SF before Barnes.

Barnes has the (much) better body (physically and zero ACL blow out history) but that's really the only thing that he has over Miller IMO.

Miller is just as good at the catch and shoot.
Miller has just as much range.
Miller has a higher ceiling (IMO).
Miller can create his own shot.
Miller is a better passer.
Miller is a better rebounder.
Miller blocks shots.

I just dont see what you see in miller....i know how he is going to get his shot off in the NBA moving the way he moves

I think he's pretty crafty and we only saw a very limited glimpse of his bag of tricks during his 1 college year.

I also think the NBA style suits his game a lot more than the college game does.