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Wiz trade Shard and 2nd rounder for Okafor and Ariza

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Re: Wiz trade Shard and 2nd rounder for Okafor and Ariza 

Post#421 » by willbcocks » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:54 am

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
willbcocks wrote:I will say this--I don't think our situation is so dire that a competent GM would be unable to fix it. If we don't make any more terrible moves this year, EG is canned next year, and we bring in someone like Pritchard, we could still have a really bright future based on the foundation we've made in this past 1.5 years.

As fans we should not give up hope. This should, however, be a final reminder to all that EG is EG even under Ted, and he HAS TO GO.



It isn't.


You're agreeing with me here--so of course I agree!

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Push comes to shove the way to fix the mess is fire Ernie.


Yup, but push is already on shove. Agree that EG must go.

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Trade Wall with Okafor's expiring, next season. Acquire a game manager at PG and a shooter. Kevin Martin and Kyle Lowry would at least give the team a competent-shooting backcourt.


Noo! What happened to the early agreement! This is like a horror film where I'm lulled into a sense of security and blindsided with an axe to the head.

This would be an even worse repeat of the #5 for Foye move and the completion of the team's destruction, not the way to avoid it.
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Re: Wiz trade Shard and 2nd rounder for Okafor and Ariza 

Post#422 » by TGW » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:56 am

For all those defending this trade with the terrible "capspace is useless if no one wants to sign" defense, you do realize we can't use the BOYD strategy now. Remember that Hinrich and Seraphin for nothing trade? Can't do that anymore because we have 2 awesome vets to carry us to the 8th seed of the playoffs.

Pathetic.
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Re: Wiz trade Shard and 2nd rounder for Okafor and Ariza 

Post#423 » by BruceO » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:57 am

Same whining and complaining that happened when the wiz got nene happening now. Guys get over it and for the record these players don't suck and emeka isn't always injured. Last five years he has played 82 games about three times or twice and 72 games once. Last season I believe Nola shut him down to trade him.

Ariza can play the sefolosha role as a 2 guard and we can still pick beal or mkg or Barnes. I'm sure he fo with their evaluations can figure out who will be available to them so this we showed our hand thing early is nonsense. Charlotte cannot bother to draft beal if he is the third best player on the board just to try retrade with us. We'll simply pick the second best player and call it a day.

Also another thing people are discounting is players perform well in good team situations where they can succeed and do badly in bad situations doing a role not suited for them. Trevor snt meant to be a primary scorer but gives a good amount of scoring for a defensive specialist and plays better uptempo. Emeka plays well with good pg play and good spacing. These guys will be put in ideal situations an nene can create mismatches at pf since he has a high ts percentage. I don't think they (nene and emeka) have ever played with an intelligent defensive big and now nene and emeka get to do so together.

I'm also sure the team being the ones in office have more information about the nba and possible trades and future signings than the speculators and spectators here and. Saw this as a great move. We weren't just going to give rashard 13m to go away, so we likely wouldn't have amnestied him or bought him out. The difference n salary isn't great this year and the larger contract of emekas expires soon.

We have a chance to become a good defensive team this coming season, i think the boards focus should be on how healthy they are and what's their current form. They are not old players and still have lot of basketball in them
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Re: Wiz trade Shard and 2nd rounder for Okafor and Ariza 

Post#424 » by TGW » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:01 am

tontoz wrote:
DCZards wrote:



Maybe those having a sissy fit about Ariza's shot selection should read this article. They might find it enlightening. I'd also refer them to the comments about Ariza by Hornet fans that follows the article.



So his shot selection improved and he still had a worse TS% than Wall and Crawford. I feel so much better now.


:lol:

What's even more pathetic about Ariza is that he was god-awful with Chris Paul as his point guard. You have one of the best point guards in the league setting this guy up for shots, and he still sucked.

Just scary.
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Re: Wiz trade Shard and 2nd rounder for Okafor and Ariza 

Post#425 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:01 am

80sballboy wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
closg00 wrote:I haven't been this depressed since Ernie got his contract extension.


If the Wizards start losing I hope Ted sells and the team moves.

Being a fan of a team like this for 40 years takes a toll. One playoff series win back in 2005 or 2006 over the Bulls, only to be swept by the Heat. The EJ years were "highlights" where the Wizards managed 45 wins once. They won 43 a couple times. Great mediocrity while paying the contracts of Arenas and Jamison!

Before the great EJ years there were the Chris Webber years. I think they achieved 43 or so wins then. MJ and the Bulls swept a young, talented team. Big Gheorghe hurt his foot on a movie set. Webber's parties got wild and Abe had a real problem with weed on C Webb's car. So much so he gave Webber away for old broke down Mitch Richmond and completely done Otis Thorpe. Ernie probably was thinking of that when he traded the #5 for Mike Miller and Randy Foye. Screw the future. Let's suck now!

Before the CWebb years were the Unseld coached years. Now there were some seriously bad teams. The best players were guys like Charles Jones or Tom Gugliotta. I remember when the Bullets had no three point shooters, no shot blockers, and no one over 6'9". They managed almost as many wins as Flip did. (Actually, they matched Tapscott).

Someone posted earlier, I think Dat, how the Wizards went downhill to begin with acquiring old Moses Malone, old Dan Roundfield, and old Gus Williams. EJ couldn't wait to see if Nene would break down over time. He had to double his pleasure getting even more broke down Okafor.

This seems to be a really horrible day for the franchise.

The thing I learned after the day Nene was acquired for Javale is that it probably is nowhere near as bad as it seems.

All I know is it is a tormenting kind of feeling. I hope the new guys represent more talent than yesterday and they come in playing well, like Nene did. (When he played--I am sure he would have missed less games if they weren't tanking. Right????) This feeling is really uncomfortable.


Give me a break CCJ. We have a bad franchise. I watched them in 1973 when they were the Capital Bullets and saw very good to mediocre teams until the C-Webb fiasco and the mismanagement of the Abe/Wes regime. They always be my team through thick and thin, no matter how crappy Ted r EG is or how gullible we are as fans.

But on June 17, 1996, many of us PG County guys nearly crossed over to become Boston Celtics fans. I stood there with my HS friends at the Cap Centre, watching in disbelief at the old telescreen when they used to have those old Draft get togethers as Boston picked #34. At least they would have been our second team and y'all know what happened on June 19 but that's probably the closest I've come to rooting for something other than the Bullets.

I just hope that pick #3 will help change this franchise around and JWall finds a jumper over the summer. We can only hope like Cubs fans every offseason that the tide will change. :(


You forgot about the Fat Lady? She sang for Dick Motta's Bullets. 80s, the Bullets were really good in 1974-1975, when they won 60 games. I still remember the dumb strategy to have Mike Riordan foul Rick Barry. George Johnson and Keith Wilkes destroyed the favored Bullets. Still, that team had Elvin, Wes, Kevin Porter, and Phil Chenier. Later on, Bobby D and Charles Johnson got them a championship. They even returned to the championship game. No, they were better than mediocre in the 70s.

Since then this franchise has been the worst, Clippers included.

The day they traded Webber stands out as one craptastic day for sure, 80s. I just not-too-long-ago forgot exactly what day in July of 2007 that EJ foolishly ran off Tom Thibodeau. This franchise consistently sucks. As much as hiring Wittman was the stand up thing to do, hiring Joerger would have been swinging for the fence. Yet, I knew that wouldn't happen the day EG traded Javale McGee. I knew THEN EG's job was safe.

80s, I am just saying this move needs to work next season or I'm reaching a point where I will truly begin to hate this team. Too much obsessing over a CRAP franchise.

I knew the day they resigned Arenas that guy was still injured. The day they signed Pecherov, that guy is not as good as Millsap. We all knew Nick Young lacked intelligence.

Ariza can't shoot of late. Great, just what they need next to Crawford.

Like I said, this needs to work. I thought for sure Nene would be a disaster, he wouldn't be as good as Seraphin, and McGee would blow up. I was wrong. Nene played well and Kevin played. Right now, I don't see the minutes working out. I am anticipating a lot of bad feelings, but who knows.

I just feel bad about this deal.
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Re: Wiz trade Shard and 2nd rounder for Okafor and Ariza 

Post#426 » by tontoz » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:04 am

BruceO wrote:Same whining and complaining that happened when the wiz got nene happening now.



It isn't even remotely the same. A lot of people, myself included, were in favor of the Nene trade. Many of the people who were against the trade were griping about getting rid of a young center with a PER of 19.

In this case we aren't giving up anyone and the response is overwhelmingly negative because we will be spending a long of money on a player who isn't that good and another who just flat out sucks.
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Re: Wiz trade Shard and 2nd rounder for Okafor and Ariza 

Post#427 » by Bickerstaff » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:05 am

Shocking that people on the internet are reacting to a so-so sports trade by pretending it's the worst disaster since the Great Flood. Some of you guys need to start collecting stamps or something, find SOME hobby that isn't gonna give you a stroke.
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Re: Wiz trade Shard and 2nd rounder for Okafor and Ariza 

Post#428 » by BruceO » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:08 am

So who isn't good and who flat out sucks? Would you rather the team pay 13 million to a guy to walk away or pay extra to get some players here. Also how much is that extra we are paying assuming rashard stayed? Emekas expiring on top of that will be of value
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Re: Wiz trade Shard and 2nd rounder for Okafor and Ariza 

Post#429 » by pancakes3 » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:10 am

Bickerstaff wrote:Shocking that people on the internet are reacting to a so-so sports trade by pretending it's the worst disaster since the Great Flood. Some of you guys need to start collecting stamps or something, find SOME hobby that isn't gonna give you a stroke.


HAH! I'm glad I picked this page to click on out of the 28 others and got to read this.
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Re: Wiz trade Shard and 2nd rounder for Okafor and Ariza 

Post#430 » by closg00 » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:11 am

Why can't trade supporters just admit that the deal was done so-that Ted would-not have to pay-out for Shard w/o getting something,that's the bottom-line here, everything else is just smoke and mirrors and PR spin. The trade was not done with the long-term interest of the team in-mind. I still have a glimmer of hope that something is going to happen on draft-night to make more basketball sense for the organization.
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Re: Wiz trade Shard and 2nd rounder for Okafor and Ariza 

Post#431 » by TGW » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:15 am

BruceO wrote:So who isn't good and who flat out sucks? Would you rather the team pay 13 million to a guy to walk away or pay extra to get some players here. Also how much is that extra we are paying assuming rashard stayed? Emekas expiring on top of that will be of value


Yes! In this case, we keep cap flexibility...we can still do BOYD trades even if we strike out in free agency.

Now we are stuck with two bums who aren't even average at their respective positions.
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Re: Wiz trade Shard and 2nd rounder for Okafor and Ariza 

Post#432 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:15 am

willbcocks wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
willbcocks wrote:I will say this--I don't think our situation is so dire that a competent GM would be unable to fix it. If we don't make any more terrible moves this year, EG is canned next year, and we bring in someone like Pritchard, we could still have a really bright future based on the foundation we've made in this past 1.5 years.

As fans we should not give up hope. This should, however, be a final reminder to all that EG is EG even under Ted, and he HAS TO GO.



It isn't.


You're agreeing with me here--so of course I agree!

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Push comes to shove the way to fix the mess is fire Ernie.


Yup, but push is already on shove. Agree that EG must go.

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Trade Wall with Okafor's expiring, next season. Acquire a game manager at PG and a shooter. Kevin Martin and Kyle Lowry would at least give the team a competent-shooting backcourt.


Noo! What happened to the early agreement! This is like a horror film where I'm lulled into a sense of security and blindsided with an axe to the head.

This would be an even worse repeat of the #5 for Foye move and the completion of the team's destruction, not the way to avoid it.

:lol:
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Re: Wiz trade Shard and 2nd rounder for Okafor and Ariza 

Post#433 » by 80sballboy » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:22 am

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
You forgot about the Fat Lady? She sang for Dick Motta's Bullets. 80s, the Bullets were really good in 1974-1975, when they won 60 games. I still remember the dumb strategy to have Mike Riordan foul Rick Barry. George Johnson and Keith Wilkes destroyed the favored Bullets. Still, that team had Elvin, Wes, Kevin Porter, and Phil Chenier. Later on, Bobby D and Charles Johnson got them a championship. They even returned to the championship game. No, they were better than mediocre in the 70s.

Since then this franchise has been the worst, Clippers included.

The day they traded Webber stands out as one craptastic day for sure, 80s. I just know forgot exactly what day in July of 2007 that EJ foolishly ran off Tom Thibodeau. This franchise consistently sucks. As much as hiring Wittman was the stand up thing to do, hiring Joerger would have been swinging for the fence. Yet, I knew that wouldn't happen the day EG traded Javale McGee. I knew THEN EG's job was safe.

80s, I am just saying this move needs to work next season or I'm reaching a point where I will truly begin to hate this team. Too much obsessing over a CRAP franchise.

I knew the day they resigned Arenas that guy was still injured. The day they signed Pecherov, that guy is not as good as Millsap. We all knew Nick Young lacked intelligence.

Ariza can't shoot of late. Great, just what they need next to Crawford.

Like I said, this needs to work. I thought for sure Nene would be a disaster, he wouldn't be as good as Seraphin, and McGee would blow up. I was wrong. Nene played well and Kevin played. Right now, I don't see the minutes working out. I am anticipating a lot of bad feelings, but who knows.

I just feel bad about this deal.
[/quote]


I don't love the deal either. (of course I remember the Fat Lady and Bullets Fever). I think it just makes us a little better and the real key is the #3 pick. Not worried about whether it stunts Seraphin's growth because if he's good enough, he'll play. And Nene won't play 82 games, that's for sure.

But some people will kill everything the Wiz do. Grunfeld could get Durant for Wall and people will say that Durant is too thin and will get hurt down the road. I'd rather have Sam Presti as the GM but that ain't happening so I just hope EG doesn't f up this draft again. The best thing is that there are no Euros to pick in the top 5 or top 10.
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Re: Wiz trade Shard and 2nd rounder for Okafor and Ariza 

Post#434 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:27 am

tontoz wrote:
BruceO wrote:Same whining and complaining that happened when the wiz got nene happening now.



It isn't even remotely the same. A lot of people, myself included, were in favor of the Nene trade. Many of the people who were against the trade were griping about getting rid of a young center with a PER of 19.

In this case we aren't giving up anyone and the response is overwhelmingly negative because we will be spending a long of money on a player who isn't that good and another who just flat out sucks.


What did not surprise me was Denver in the playoffs, playing Faried next to McGee. The Wizards should have played McGee with Seraphin at least some. http://www.nba.com/playoffs/2012/westseries3/ A center that can give a team 9 points, 10 rebounds, 3 blocks in 25 minutes off the bench is an asset. I am happy that Nene fit in and I was wrong, but time will tell on that deal.

I was more negative then than now, believe it or not.

Maybe this one will work out but I am sure that just like Denver is happy, New Orleans will be ECSTATIC with that deal. At #46 they might get Machado or Denmon and have a future starter.
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Re: Wiz trade Shard and 2nd rounder for Okafor and Ariza 

Post#435 » by paulpressey25 » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:27 am

I'm here guys. Your friend from Milwaukee.

I just wanted to congratulate Ernie on his 9-year anniversary as Wizards GM coming up next week. Hard to believe it was June 25, 2003 when the Bucks released him so he could pursue his dreams as Wizards GM. Where does time go.

I feel for you guys. You were totally on the right rebuilding track. The track we have tried to get our inept owner Herb Kohl to take for years now.

But Ernie and Ted just had to spend $100 million plus on Nene, Ariza and Okafor to try and steal that 8th seed from my Bucks next year.

You guys are ahead of us though since you've got that 3rd pick, which could net an all-star. Just remember though that if we can't sign Chris Kaman to a $50 million dollar deal to compete with you guys, we may pack it in and trade Monta Ellis to you for the 3rd pick and Blatche. 8-)
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Re: Wiz trade Shard and 2nd rounder for Okafor and Ariza 

Post#436 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:30 am

80sballboy wrote:

I don't love the deal either. (of course I remember the Fat Lady and Bullets Fever). I think it just makes us a little better and the real key is the #3 pick. Not worried about whether it stunts Seraphin's growth because if he's good enough, he'll play. And Nene won't play 82 games, that's for sure.

But some people will kill everything the Wiz do. Grunfeld could get Durant for Wall and people will say that Durant is too thin and will get hurt down the road. I'd rather have Sam Presti as the GM but that ain't happening so I just hope EG doesn't f up this draft again. The best thing is that there are no Euros to pick in the top 5 or top 10.


You have a point about Nene and 82 games, and that's for sure, 80s.

I am one of those people who reflexively criticizes Grunfeld. It is like having a parent who beats you all the time. If that parent reaches to hug you the first thing you're going to do is try to shield your face. Ernie generally messes up.

This deal might make the Wizards better talent wise, but I'm not seeing the minutes at all.
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Re: Wiz trade Shard and 2nd rounder for Okafor and Ariza 

Post#437 » by closg00 » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:31 am

I need the help of a cap specialist. Isn't this deal even sweeter for NO because Shard can be bought-out before June 30th correct?
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Re: Wiz trade Shard and 2nd rounder for Okafor and Ariza 

Post#438 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:32 am

paulpressey25 wrote:I'm here guys. Your friend from Milwaukee.

I just wanted to congratulate Ernie on his 9-year anniversary as Wizards GM coming up next week. Hard to believe it was June 25, 2003 when the Bucks released him so he could pursue his dreams as Wizards GM. Where does time go.

I feel for you guys. You were totally on the right rebuilding track. The track we have tried to get our inept owner Herb Kohl to take for years now.

But Ernie and Ted just had to spend $100 million plus on Nene, Ariza and Okafor to try and steal that 8th seed from my Bucks next year.

You guys are ahead of us though since you've got that 3rd pick, which could net an all-star. Just remember though that if we can't sign Chris Kaman to a $50 million dollar deal to compete with you guys, we may pack it in and trade Monta Ellis to you for the 3rd pick and Blatche. 8-)


If I were a Bucks fan I would be emailing Ted with that, pp25. :)
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Re: Wiz trade Shard and 2nd rounder for Okafor and Ariza 

Post#439 » by dandridge 10 » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:33 am

closg00 wrote:Why can't trade supporters just admit that the deal was done so-that Ted would-not have to pay-out for Shard w/o getting something,that's the bottom-line here, everything else is just smoke and mirrors and PR spin. The trade was not done with the long-term interest of the team in-mind. I still have a glimmer of hope that something is going to happen on draft-night to make more basketball sense for the organization.


I am not necessarily a supporter of the trade, but I don't agree that the trade was done without the long-term interests of the team in mind. Basically, I think the trade was made because Ted and EG did not believe that the FA market over the next 2 years was very good, and that it was unlikely any quality FA would leave their team to come to a noncompetitive team here. I also think they believe that we already have enough young talent on this team with Wall, Seraphin, Singleton, Booker, Vesely, and this years 3 and 32 draft picks, and that we needed to surround these players with some veteran presence in order to help them grow instead of just continuing to add more draft picks through BOYD deals. They are counting on the fact that our young players will develop into very good players when Okafor and Ariza's contracts expire and then we will have more flexibility to go after FAs or trade some of our young talent for upgrades. I don't think it is a coincidence that Wittman's deal expires the same time as Okafor and Ariza's contract. Basically, I think EG and Ted concluded that, without this years #1 pick, the rebuild process was going to take two more years so we might as well keep the same coach and try to be more competitive during the process. I'm not saying that this approach was the right decision, but I do think that, at least in Ted and EG's mind, this move was made with long term teams interest in mind.
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Re: Wiz trade Shard and 2nd rounder for Okafor and Ariza 

Post#440 » by willbcocks » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:34 am

Yeah, our rebuilding effort mimicking that of the bucks a few years back was my worst nightmare. It was like so much promise was just swept up and thrown away. And sadly we're moving in that direction. The only difference is that Nene still has positive value at his contract and Okafor/Ariza are only signed for two years.

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