Wiz trade Shard and 2nd rounder for Okafor and Ariza

[Ruzious]

A team looking to dump salary is much more likely to want cap space as opposed to an expirer.

A bird in hand is worth two in the bush, but a turd in hand isn't.

Problem is these amazing trades you're predicting could "Arise" suddenly would require an intelligent GM, luck, and a very real possibility of another 18-22 win season for our supposed franchise player.

Risk / Reward

Reward is having some leadership, and getting some wins under our young guys belts. It helps in that regard. It also helps salvage some season ticket holders, and the actual value of the franchise before a whole generation writes them off.

Complete overreaction here. We were never getting Howard, Harden or any top level player......

Again, if that's the attitude, they should find a diffferent business to be in.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Okafor can't guard Dirk on the perimeter like James Singleton. Okafor cannot step out and consistently hit a jumper like Singleton. Last season with the Wizards, James scored more, rebounded better, and even blocks shots at a higher rate than Okafor did with the Hornets.

I really don't understand the need for Okafor and I see no way James Singleton is resigned, DCZ.

Guard Dirk? One of the best (and only) outside shooters at PF and a player that the Zards have to worry about matching up with twice a season. Not the best example, ccj.

I will give you some good examples. If I want somebody to rebound better than Emeka I can sign Drew Gordon at #32. A better perimeter big at 32 would be Draymond Green. A big body? Festus Ezeli is not a great player but he's big. For 473K these guys can give me things Emeka cannot. Miles Plumlee might rebound just as well. Good end of the bench guy to add. James Singleton already had the respect of the young guys and the coaching staff. He can guard Josh Smith better than Emeka. He can guard Ryan Anderson better than Emeka. He can match up with players like Thaddeus Young better. The Wizards face these players more than they face Dirk.

My point is Emeka isn't a guy who brings something unique or vastly better to the Wizards. Singleton as a perimeter big on a team lacking shooters adds something that Emeka Okafor does not, and he does it for the veteran minimum.

Specific enough, DCZ?

[The Consiglieri]

If we had kept the same team, and only made minor changes and added Beal, we probably wouldn't win 25 games next year.

Huh? They just won 20 in a 66 game season with Nene playing only 11 games. If they won at the same rate, not improving at all, they would win 25 in an 82 game season.

Wow

And they won how many last year? And the year before that. This team is 88-224 in the last 4 years. Let that sink in, and then come back and tell me they were going to win more than 25 games, because I doubt it would have happened. And when I say 40-45 wins, I'm not saying Ariza/Okafor alone would propel them to 15 more wins, but the improvements from other players as well. Fact, this team is better. Tell me I'm wrong.

That's the point, the improvement from the other players and their chemistry and a full offseason would have at minimum lead this team as is, plus the third overall at 26+ wins, my projections were 28-35 wins. I really don't understand where you're coming up with this from. This team probably actually had more upside without these two wastes of space, than with them.

[DCZards]

I'm curious about how much his role in NO may have played a part in his shooting and shot selection. To me, he seems perfectly capable of making the corner 3. It's possible he tried to do to much after getting that contract from Houston. Bottom line, i think he's a huge upgrade to Singleton as a 3 nd D SF who can run the floor.

A writer who covers the Hornets said essentially the same thing about Ariza's shooting in blog posted many, many pages ago. The writer noted that Ariza's shot selection improved significantly in the latter part of last season as a result of a change in his role with NO.

[mohammed10]

I'm curious about how much his role in NO may have played a part in his shooting and shot selection. To me, he seems perfectly capable of making the corner 3. It's possible he tried to do to much after getting that contract from Houston. Bottom line, i think he's a huge upgrade to Singleton as a 3 nd D SF who can run the floor.

A writer who covers the Hornets said essentially the same thing about Ariza's shooting in blog posted many, many pages ago. The writer noted that Ariza's shot selection improved significantly in the latter part of last season as a result of a change in his role with NO.

I hope that we are not just trying to make lemonade out of lemons (see the late season winning streak for further proof)...

[Dat2U]

I'm curious about how much his role in NO may have played a part in his shooting and shot selection. To me, he seems perfectly capable of making the corner 3. It's possible he tried to do to much after getting that contract from Houston. Bottom line, i think he's a huge upgrade to Singleton as a 3 nd D SF who can run the floor.

A writer who covers the Hornets said essentially the same thing about Ariza's shooting in blog posted many, many pages ago. The writer noted that Ariza's shot selection improved significantly in the latter part of last season as a result of a change in his role with NO.

But no one answered the follow up question I had to that. Why didn't his percentages improve?

[sfam]

Wow, this thread moves like greased lightning. So yeah, this clearly isn't an ideal trade, but it tells us a few things into Ted and EG's mindset:

1. The Wizards mgmt has decided they most likely will have the core pieces necessary to surround Wall after this draft. This means they are expecting great things out of Seraphin, and most likely, Vesely. I doubt either get traded. I also believe they'll do just fine in getting quality minutes. The question here is whether we see Vesely at SF this season - otherwise, I don't see how he gets the minutes.

2. Ted's message basically said that nobody good is coming to DC through FA until we start winning games. This move is intended to do that. They probably took the only deal they could which turned Lewis' contract into productive players.

3. Ted doesn't like the idea of throwing money away. Ted is OK with overpaying players, but does not seem thrilled with paying players to leave. This bodes ill for the upcoming Blatche decision.

Ultimately, I do believe this move helps us win more games and helps us establish a tough, defensive minded professional team. But really, for this deal to be a success, we need a change in Ariza's play to his old Lakers self, and we need to be able to turn over Okafor for something like a wing next season. If we make it to the playoffs, it would also be great to see a highly sought after FA make Washington their home in the next year or two. If this happens, this deal will have been well worth it.

[sfam]

I will say this--I don't think our situation is so dire that a competent GM would be unable to fix it. If we don't make any more terrible moves this year, EG is canned next year, and we bring in someone like Pritchard, we could still have a really bright future based on the foundation we've made in this past 1.5 years.

As fans we should not give up hope. This should, however, be a final reminder to all that EG is EG even under Ted, and he HAS TO GO.

It isn't.

Push comes to shove the way to fix the mess is fire Ernie. Trade Wall with Okafor's expiring, next season. Acquire a game manager at PG and a shooter. Kevin Martin and Kyle Lowry would at least give the team a competent-shooting backcourt. There is a way out of all of EG's missteps, but not as long as he is the GM.

You can't fire Leonsis which is a big part of the problem. It was him that was crying after his Glen (mad men) like son failed to land us Davis in the lottery, it was him saying he never wanted to be in the lottery again. This stupid move has a collaboration all over it, between an owner that has no idea what hes doing and a GM who doesnt care so long as he keeps his gig.

We need to fire the owner. I had hopes for Leonsis, but they are long since gone, should have known an AOL head honcho wouldn't exactly make sense. Its like being run by the producers of "Howard the Duck", following being run by the producers of "Small Wonder".

This is absurdly early to declare the "Sky is Falling" with our owner. Ted clearly believes his young talent won't develop to their full potential without a totally professional atmosphere. We can bicker over whether this deal helps that or not, but Ted seems to be enacting his philosophy. This is FAR better than having an owner without a philosophy. I still think Ted is great, and am thrilled he's our owner, even if I potentially disagree with him here.

[Dat2U]

A team looking to dump salary is much more likely to want cap space as opposed to an expirer.

A bird in hand is worth two in the bush, but a turd in hand isn't.

Problem is these amazing trades you're predicting could "Arise" suddenly would require an intelligent GM, luck, and a very real possibility of another 18-22 win season for our supposed franchise player.

Risk / Reward

Reward is having some leadership, and getting some wins under our young guys belts. It helps in that regard. It also helps salvage some season ticket holders, and the actual value of the franchise before a whole generation writes them off.

Complete overreaction here. We were never getting Howard, Harden or any top level player......

Again, if that's the attitude, they should find a diffferent business to be in.

Seriously, it's one thing if the fans feel that way, but if the front office thinks like that, then this franchise is dead in the water.

[DCZards]

I will give you some good examples. If I want somebody to rebound better than Emeka I can sign Drew Gordon at #32. A better perimeter big at 32 would be Draymond Green. A big body? Festus Ezeli is not a great player but he's big. For 473K these guys can give me things Emeka cannot. Miles Plumlee might rebound just as well. Good end of the bench guy to add. James Singleton already had the respect of the young guys and the coaching staff. He can guard Josh Smith better than Emeka. He can guar Ryan Anderson better than Emeka. He can match up with players like Thaddeus Young better. The Wizards face these players more than they face Dirk.
Specific enough, DCZ?

Sorry, ccj, you can't rattle off the names of college kids and tell me that they are going to be better than Okafor when they have yet to play a minute of NBA ball. I ain't buying it.

You get no argument from me about Singleton...other than I believe that comparing the two is comparing apples and oranges because their games are so very different. Emeka is an insider baller, as much of as C as a PF, while Singleton is more perimeter-oriented, as much of a SF as a PF.

[Dat2U]

Ultimately, I do believe this move helps us win more games and helps us establish a tough, defensive minded professional team. But really, for this deal to be a success, we need a change in Ariza's play to his old Lakers self, and we need to be able to turn over Okafor for something like a wing next season. If we make it to the playoffs, it would also be great to see a highly sought after FA make Washington their home in the next year or two. If this happens, this deal will have been well worth it.

So to clarify this is great deal if...

We turnaround and deal the 2ys & $28 million dollar player we just acquired.

and the 2nd player morphs back into the player he was during a 2 month stretch, 3 years ago.

Is that supposed to make me feel more confident about the deal?

[jivelikenice]

Seriously, it's one thing if the fans feel that way, but if the front office thinks like that, then this franchise is dead in the water.

If you get them, great, but a team with our track record can't base their plans around getting Howard or Harden (not that I'd give him a max deal anyways). The Knicks based everything around Lebron and once he turned them down they were screwed so they overpaid for Melo and are stuck in Atlanta territory with bad contracts. The future of this franchise depends on Wall, this upcoming draft pick, and Seraphin. These vets can help teach them how to play the game and then we can try to add the cherry on top with a FA or a trade when these guys' contracts expire.

[tontoz]

I'm curious about how much his role in NO may have played a part in his shooting and shot selection. To me, he seems perfectly capable of making the corner 3. It's possible he tried to do to much after getting that contract from Houston. Bottom line, i think he's a huge upgrade to Singleton as a 3 nd D SF who can run the floor.

A writer who covers the Hornets said essentially the same thing about Ariza's shooting in blog posted many, many pages ago. The writer noted that Ariza's shot selection improved significantly in the latter part of last season as a result of a change in his role with NO.

So his shot selection improved but his shooting accuracy didn't. Wonderful

[payitforward]

I've been kind of blown away -- like most of us, I guess -- by this idiotic trade.

Someone said that Okafor helps w/ rebounding. His rebounding rate has gone down season after season. Last year every 40 minutes it was at 10.9. James Singleton? 12.4. And if it's been going steadily down, please tell me: don't you think that might continue in his 30s?

Emeka's TS% .53. James Singleton? .60

Ok, there a couple of non-improvements.

Ariza is an upgrade over Chris Singleton at the 3. And let me tell you that was hard, finding someone a step up from Chris's rookie year while keeping the salary under $8m.

What a joke. This team is cooked. Again. Why do we stay fans?

[sfam]

Ultimately, I do believe this move helps us win more games and helps us establish a tough, defensive minded professional team. But really, for this deal to be a success, we need a change in Ariza's play to his old Lakers self, and we need to be able to turn over Okafor for something like a wing next season. If we make it to the playoffs, it would also be great to see a highly sought after FA make Washington their home in the next year or two. If this happens, this deal will have been well worth it.

So to clarify this is great deal if...

We turnaround and deal the 2ys & $28 million dollar player we just acquired.

and the 2nd player morphs back into the player he was during a 2 month stretch, 3 years ago.

Is that supposed to make me feel more confident about the deal?

Absolutely. We should go out drinking to celebrate!

Seriously though, my point is the deal might end up being very good. If it increases our professionalism and defense, it convinces other FAs that Washington is no longer a dead zone. If Ariza returns to his former self, then yeah, it becomes a very good deal.

[Severn Hoos]

I think that's true but I don't think it can't also be true that it's good mgmt
to not pay a lot for nothing.

It took me 10 minutes to figure out what this sentence is saying. Still working on it....

my bad - let me try again

it may be true that Ted wanted to save money

that doesn't exclude the possibility that Ted wanted to see his money better spent.

Better?

Works for me. This deal is somewhere between "throwing good money after bad" and "in for a penny, in for a pound." On the one hand, Lewis was a sunk cost. Taking on more expense because of an emotional aversion to admitting that fact is bad business. But Ted is a smart businessman, so he's not likely to let that type of emotional thinking cloud his judgment.

On the other hand, there is the mindset that if I'm going to spend $X for something, or I can spend $X + ____ to get something better, you take door #2. It's the logic behind buying your furniture at Ethan Allen rather than Wal-Mart. Because the Wal-Mart furniture will fall apart 2 or 3 times while you're still enjoying your Ethan Allen set. And in the long run, not only is the Ethan Allen set a better value, but you might actually have a lower total outlay. (Same deal with cheap cars vs. higher-priced quality cars).

I guess our hope is that it is a case of the latter, but right now it sure looks like the former...

[jivelikenice]

I will give you some good examples. If I want somebody to rebound better than Emeka I can sign Drew Gordon at #32. A better perimeter big at 32 would be Draymond Green. A big body? Festus Ezeli is not a great player but he's big. For 473K these guys can give me things Emeka cannot. Miles Plumlee might rebound just as well. Good end of the bench guy to add. James Singleton already had the respect of the young guys and the coaching staff. He can guard Josh Smith better than Emeka. He can guar Ryan Anderson better than Emeka. He can match up with players like Thaddeus Young better. The Wizards face these players more than they face Dirk.
Specific enough, DCZ?

Sorry, ccj, you can't rattle off the names of college kids and tell me that they are going to be better than Okafor when they have yet to play a minute of NBA ball. I ain't buying it.

You get no argument from me about Singleton...other than I believe that comparing the two is comparing apples and oranges because their games are so very different. Emeka is an insider baller, as much of as C as a PF, while Singleton is more perimeter-oriented, as much of a SF as a PF.

CCJ, why does Emeka take Singleton out of the equation? I don't understand....And I seem to recall you saying McGee was not going to get $10 MM per (we had a friendly wager on it). Now you're saying that you said he was going to get that all along? And McGee til this day isn't worth $10MM per. Sorry, but I'm not going to get carried away based on one 7 game series where he averaged 8.6/9.6/3 and shot 43% from the floor. Really, he had two good games, was average in another, and was trash in the rest. And he doesn't get credit for getting to the playoffs....They were already a playoff team.

[tontoz]

Ariza is an upgrade over Chris Singleton at the 3. And let me tell you that was hard, finding someone a step up from Chris's rookie year while keeping the salary under $8m.

[Jay81]

Teds take is embarrassing.

He is posting links to the one or two sites who actually liked the trade and then he was excited about the PTI Grade

[payitforward]

I'm curious about how much his role in NO may have played a part in his shooting and shot selection. To me, he seems perfectly capable of making the corner 3. It's possible he tried to do to much after getting that contract from Houston. Bottom line, i think he's a huge upgrade to Singleton as a 3 nd D SF who can run the floor.

A writer who covers the Hornets said essentially the same thing about Ariza's shooting in blog posted many, many pages ago. The writer noted that Ariza's shot selection improved significantly in the latter part of last season as a result of a change in his role with NO.

tontoz added: So his shot selection improved but his shooting accuracy didn't. Wonderful

...and has it about right. In his second year w/ NO, Ariza took .2 more shots per 40 minutes. Out of that he got .3 more points. Now that is a startling jump in productivity right there -- whoa!

Ain't reality annoying?