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Official Trade Thread XIX: 3/14/12 - 6/22/12

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Re: Official Trade Thread XIX 

Post#1421 » by MDStar » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:34 pm

nate33 wrote:This talk of trading Booker really makes me upset. It's so shortsighted to trade a good young asset to make room for an aging vet like Okafor. I understand why people want to balance the roster, but it just speaks to the absurdity of the Okafor acquisition in the first place. In the long run, it is likely to make us worse in the future, not better.


I've seen Booker trades on here well before the Okafor trades. Unless I'm mistaken, you've gone on record saying that you liked him but he will never be a starter on a good team. Why is him being traded now such a big deal?
Just let the young boys play! It's truly the only hope at this point.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XIX 

Post#1422 » by LyricalRico » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:37 pm

^ Unless we're able to flip Okafor, which I think is absolutely possible. I think there are probably teams interested him, but NOH just didn't want to take back any contracts. How about this:

Wizards trade: Okafor, Crawford, Singleton
Wizards receive: M.Williams and Calderon

Raptors trade: Calderon and Klieza
Raptors receive: Okafor and Crawford

Hawks trade: M.Williams
Hawks receive: Klieza and Singleton

TRADE ID 6102498

Atlanta moves a guy that doesn't want to be there for depth. Toronto gets a tutor for JV and a backcourt scorer. Washington unclogs the frontcourt and re-balances the roster. Assuming we draft Beal:

Nene/Seraphin
Booker/Vesely
Williams/Ariza
Beal/Ariza
Wall/Calderon

Puts us back in the FA hunt next year, and upgrades our backup PG spot with a vet who can shoot. And we keep Booker.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XIX 

Post#1423 » by GUYANNAGRIZZLI » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:39 pm

nate33 wrote:This talk of trading Booker really makes me upset. It's so shortsighted to trade a good young asset to make room for an aging vet like Okafor. I understand why people want to balance the roster, but it just speaks to the absurdity of the Okafor acquisition in the first place. In the long run, it is likely to make us worse in the future, not better.


Okafor brings some additionnal value for this team
It's big advantage to have lots of good big guys in a team because you can't be a great team without a strong paint.
Also having lots of big guys makes you have lots of possibility for trading.

The trades aren't finished for Ernie IMHO
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Re: Official Trade Thread XIX 

Post#1424 » by nate33 » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:47 pm

MDStar wrote:
nate33 wrote:This talk of trading Booker really makes me upset. It's so shortsighted to trade a good young asset to make room for an aging vet like Okafor. I understand why people want to balance the roster, but it just speaks to the absurdity of the Okafor acquisition in the first place. In the long run, it is likely to make us worse in the future, not better.


I've seen Booker trades on here well before the Okafor trades. Unless I'm mistaken, you've gone on record saying that you liked him but he will never be a starter on a good team. Why is him being traded now such a big deal?

It's the notion that Booker must be traded to make way for an over-the-hill vet that bugs me.

I don't have a problem with trading Booker in the abstract, as long as it's for a young wing.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XIX 

Post#1425 » by nate33 » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:52 pm

Ben Gordon's contract matches Okafor's so perfectly that it's tough not to consider a swap. Detroit needs a defensive big to pair with Monroe, and we need a spot up shooter to pair with Wall. The problem is that Okafor has more value than Gordon in the abstract because he's a starting caliber big and Gordon is a 6th man-caliber SG. Detroit needs to add more value.

How about this:

Washington trades: Okafor + Blatche
Detroit trades: Ben Gordon + Jason Maxiel (expiring contract)

We add a shooter and dump Blatche in one fell swoop.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XIX 

Post#1426 » by GUYANNAGRIZZLI » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:03 pm

nate33 wrote:Ben Gordon's contract matches Okafor's so perfectly that it's tough not to consider a swap. Detroit needs a defensive big to pair with Monroe, and we need a spot up shooter to pair with Wall. The problem is that Okafor has more value than Gordon in the abstract because he's a starting caliber big and Gordon is a 6th man-caliber SG. Detroit needs to add more value.

How about this:

Washington trades: Okafor + Blatche
Detroit trades: Ben Gordon + Jason Maxiel (expiring contract)

We add a shooter and dump Blatche in one fell swoop.


I really like this trade and I think if you add Crawford for Detroit it may work

But Detroit with this trade Will be over the salary cap which is not a good point for this trade happens
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Re: Official Trade Thread XIX 

Post#1427 » by Ruzious » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:21 pm

nate33 wrote:Ben Gordon's contract matches Okafor's so perfectly that it's tough not to consider a swap. Detroit needs a defensive big to pair with Monroe, and we need a spot up shooter to pair with Wall. The problem is that Okafor has more value than Gordon in the abstract because he's a starting caliber big and Gordon is a 6th man-caliber SG. Detroit needs to add more value.

How about this:

Washington trades: Okafor + Blatche
Detroit trades: Ben Gordon + Jason Maxiel (expiring contract)

We add a shooter and dump Blatche in one fell swoop.

You must really want Joe Dumars to get fired. Forget the Blatche/Maxiel part, take Detroit's 2nd round pick to use on a Euro player to stash, and call it a deal.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XIX 

Post#1428 » by LyricalRico » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:25 pm

^ Yeah, I question why DET would give up an expiring to add Blatche. Maybe the addition of a player like Crawford would matter to them, but I don't know that it would be enough.

What about Okafor+Blatche for Gordon+Villanueva? Not that Charlie V can help us, but it saves us a year off Blatche's deal.

I'd also do Ruz's Okafor for Gordon+2nd deal.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XIX 

Post#1429 » by LyricalRico » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:13 pm

A 4-way where we flip Okafor for Kevin Martin...

Wizards trade: Okafor
Wizards receive: Martin and Blake

Houston trades: Martin, Scola, and Dalembert
Houston receives: Okafor and Gasol

Lakers trade: Gasol and Blake
Lakers receive: Scola and Matthews

Blazers trade: Matthews
Blazers receive: Dalembert

TRADE ID 6102570

Portland gets a starting C and cuts longterm salary as they rebuild. Los Angeles moves a guy who mignt not want to be there, upgrades at SF, and saves luxury tax money. Houston gets a guy they've wanted for a while. Washington unclogs its frontcourt and upgrades its backcourt.

Seraphin/Vesely
Nene/Booker
MKG(?)/Ariza/Singleton
Martin/Crawford
Wall/Blake/Mack
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Re: Official Trade Thread XIX 

Post#1430 » by Upper Decker » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:15 pm

Based on the fact that Ted didn't want to write a $14M check for Lewis to go away why is it universally regarded that Washington will write a check for $23M for Blatche to go away? I'm certain EG is lighting the league on fire right now to find an equally awful, or perhaps more awful, contract. Here is a list of potential candidates that may be swapped for Blatche with minimal incentives...

andris biedrins
mike miller
john salmons
charlie villanueva
josh childress (really scared about this one)
tyrus thomas

Are their any other total deadbeat NBA'rs that Blatche would fetch if minimal incentives were attached?
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Re: Official Trade Thread XIX 

Post#1431 » by LyricalRico » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:22 pm

^ Assuming that Ted is dead set on not using the anmesty clause, the guy from your list I'd probably take is Salmons. Biedrins and Villanueva have a year less on their deals, but would make our frontcourt even more crowded. I have no real interest in Childress or Thomas. Miami would probably rather bet on Miller retiring becuase of his back.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XIX 

Post#1432 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:14 pm

How about Blatche, Crawford, #3 to Portland for Matthews, Babbitt, #6, #11?

This would give the Blazers the opportunity to draft Drummond at #3.

At #6 and #11 the Wizards could draft Dion Waiters and Damian Lillard. The team would be set with shooters and scorers and would be in win-now, with youth mode.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XIX 

Post#1433 » by fishercob » Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:18 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:How about Blatche, Crawford, #3 to Portland for Matthews, Babbitt, #6, #11?

This would give the Blazers the opportunity to draft Drummond at #3.

At #6 and #11 the Wizards could draft Dion Waiters and Damian Lillard. The team would be set with shooters and scorers and would be in win-now, with youth mode.


I love Beal, CCJ. But that would be a phenomenal deal -- perhaps my favoriet that you have ever proposed!
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Re: Official Trade Thread XIX 

Post#1434 » by Benjammin » Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:38 pm

^^^
+1, great deal CCJ. I don't think the Blazers would go for it, but well done.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XIX 

Post#1435 » by Dat2U » Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:44 am

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:How about Blatche, Crawford, #3 to Portland for Matthews, Babbitt, #6, #11?

This would give the Blazers the opportunity to draft Drummond at #3.

At #6 and #11 the Wizards could draft Dion Waiters and Damian Lillard. The team would be set with shooters and scorers and would be in win-now, with youth mode.


I could go for that. I like Waiters as much, if not more than Beal to tell ya the truth. And Lillard is very close behind both in my rankings so that's a good deal.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XIX 

Post#1436 » by willbcocks » Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:33 am

From visiting the trade board frequently and thinking about it more, I'm pretty convinced that Portland's not trading the 6+11 for 3 in this draft. They've got to be confident one of the top 5 prospects slips to them, as all they need is one team to draft barnes, and they have needs across the board.

This trade is even more lopsided in our favor that a 3 for 6+11, so while this is a good trade for us, I'm not sure it's realistic.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XIX 

Post#1437 » by rockymac52 » Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:38 am

I haven't given my thoughts on the trade yet, but after giving it a day's time to let it soak in, I like it.

It's not a home run trade by any means, and I can completely understand how it could frustrate many of you, but I think it's a simple move that makes our team better. At the end of the day, just like Ernie said, we're better than we were yesterday. We gave away 2 assets that were worthless to us. We have so much youth already, and Ted made it clear at the end of the season that we were only going to have 2 rookies on next year's team. So if it wasn't drafting a scrub and sending him to the D League or drafting and stashing a marginal European prospect, then it was this. Even though there's guys projected to be drafted in the mid to late 2nd round this year that I'm intrigued by and would have liked to see us draft, I'm not that concerned that we're realistically giving up anything of value with that pick. Lewis was obviously going to be cut in the next 10 days, so he was truly worthless to us.

We traded those 2 assets (and let's be honest, you can BARELY consider either of them a true "asset") and acquired 2 NBA veterans who will most likely be starters on this team.

Neither Okafor nor Ariza are all that great, but they both do certain things very well, and they would start or play significant minutes for many NBA teams.

Both of them are clearly a little bit overpaid. There's simply no denying that. But the good news is that both are only on the books for the next 2 seasons, so even if they're no good at basketball, they won't cripple our long-term future salary cap flexibility. The downside to this trade is that we now will almost definitely not be able to afford a near max contract free agent in the next two offseasons. Before this trade we were in a position where that would have been possible.

However, I think the fact that we made this trade in the first place, along with Ted and Ernie's comments post-trade, make it very clear that we did not think we were going to be able to land a free agent of that caliber. Either because we didn't think there would be any available that fit our team's needs, or that they'd only be restricted free agents and we might not be able to get them as a result, or that we simply knew that DC was not an attractive destination to free agents and it was going to limit our ability to bring in a top tier free agent. It's sad and depressing and I wish it wasn't true, but Ted's comments made it very obvious that this was the case. That cap space we would have had wasn't going to end up actually helping us land a big free agent, at least in the front office's mind.



As far as the players themselves, Ariza starts immediately on this team. He can be a valuable role player on a good team. This last year or two he's tried to do too much on offense, mainly because his team didn't have that many better options, so he tried his best to take over. I'm worried he may fall into the same trap on the Wizards, because we don't have that many good offensive players at the moment. But hopefully we can keep him in check in that regard.

Okafor is a good player who can rebound and defend. No denying that. I agree that at first glance he's definitely a bit redundant with what we have in Nene and Seraphin, but I think he'll do wonders especially on the glass. MORE IMPORTANTLY, I think acquiring Okafor points to one of two things, if not both. One, that one of our bigs is going to be traded this offseason. Many people here are speculating that guy might be Booker and that we might get a wing or mid-late 1st in return. That could be the case. OR it could be a sign that we aren't very confident in our front court players' abilities to stay healthy. If Nene or Okafor have lingering issues and need to miss some time, then it's not that big of a deal to us because we have a deep bench, at least with our big men. If we expect Nene and Okafor to each play something like 60 games, then it would be great if we could have the other one to step up along with Seraphin, Vesely, and Booker for the time being.

Long post, not sure how fluid it was, but those are my initial thoughts.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XIX 

Post#1438 » by dangermouse » Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:58 am

Just perusing the last few pages.....

We are talking about trading for guys like Calderon, Ben Gordon, Biedrins, Villaf***ingnueva............... Using the 3rd pick to dump Blatche is beginning to look good.....

This team is a MESS. And Ernie Grunfeld still has job security. That is insane.
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long suffrin' boulez fan wrote:
NatP4 wrote:but why would the pacers want Mahinmi's contract


Well, in fairness, we took Mike Pence off their hands. Taking back Mahinmi is the least they can do.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XIX 

Post#1439 » by Upper Decker » Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:13 am

dangermouse wrote:Just perusing the last few pages.....

We are talking about trading for guys like Calderon, Ben Gordon, Biedrins, Villaf***ingnueva............... Using the 3rd pick to dump Blatche is beginning to look good.....

This team is a MESS. And Ernie Grunfeld still has job security. That is insane.

It's at the point that Grunfeld is now an inferior GM to Vinny Cerrato. Cerrato had actual playoff success while in Washington. Not only that, and I never thought I'd think this, but Daniel Snyder is a better owner than Leonsis. It's transparent that Leonsis is heavily involved in the transactions the same way Snyder is and while they both are terrible at personel decisions, Snyder at least isn't cheap like Leonsis.
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Re: Official Trade Thread XIX 

Post#1440 » by dangermouse » Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:31 am

Leonsis is a liar too. This isnt the OKC method, it isnt even close. I'd hardly call this being patient and building the right way, either. Thank god he is smart enough not to use the #3 in a Blatche dump........ right? I hope so. I dont know any more. My faith in him and this franchise to build a winner around Wall is completely erased.
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long suffrin' boulez fan wrote:
NatP4 wrote:but why would the pacers want Mahinmi's contract


Well, in fairness, we took Mike Pence off their hands. Taking back Mahinmi is the least they can do.

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