Wiz trade Shard and 2nd rounder for Okafor and Ariza

[SUPERBALLMAN]

I gotta say, I just like this trade for alot of reasons, and there are certainly aspects of the deal that are concerning. But here are some of the things I like...

It came totally out of the blue! No other deals are happening, it's been a long dead period during the playoffs and waiting for the draft. Heard no rumors before hand. The Wizards just seem to kind of beat to their own drum, which is kinda cool.

Look at the benefits of bringing in a guy like Nene last season. Yes Okafor is similar, which is a major complaint of the deal, but it's also a good thing. How many games was Nene here last season, and how many of those games did he play? He's not going to play all 82, and that would leave Seraphin as our only center. Plus Okafor and Nene can play together. I'm not going to complain about having 2 good and smart veteran big men, which are not all that easy to come by. And Seraphin is going to get PLENTY of opportunity to play and contribute, and a young and still raw player like Seraphin will benefit from playing with these guys.

Everyone who likes guys on this team like Seraphin, Vesely, and Chris Singleton... Okafor and Ariza are not Kobe Bryant. I mean, if the young guys improve, these are not players they have no chance of pushing for pt. I could see either one of them slide to reserve roles if the young guys out play them. But having young players compete and earn their playing time and their positions is how they learn. It's a competitive mindset that then progresses to the competition against the opponent. You have to earn your position, and you have to earn a win. With a coach like Wittman who will play the guys who play hard, who do what they're supposed to do, this is going to be a good training camp this year. And guys like Vesely and C.Singleton will get plenty of opportunities.

I like this team. It's going to be a team that plays hard, is real good defensively, plays as a team, plays smart, and win or lose it will be a tough team to play against. I for one am looking forward to it after these past few seasons of McGee, Young and Blatche.

In the draft I like Beal and D.Lamb to boost our backcourt and shooting. Free agents, I'll be happy if we #1 Amnesty Blatche, and from there would like to keep James Singleton, Mo Evans and Roger Mason.

That's a 15 man roster of Okafor, Nene, Seraphin, Vesely, Booker, J.Singleton, C. Singleton, Ariza, Evans, Beal, Crawford, Mason, D.Lamb, Mack, Wall.

[payitforward]

Shouldn't matter, Sfam. Wall's job is to play basketball and run the team on the court. EG's is to provide the vision necessary to put together a championship contending team.

Star players do routinely make demands on their franchises, but very, very few *good* franchises act on those demands.

Yeah and those demands have a little more weight when they're made by a "star player" who's actually done something. So far, overall, John Wall is at best just a little bit better than an average point guard in the league.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

wrong thread

[Jay81]

If I was the commish of the NBA using my fantasy sports rules...I would vetoed about 3 of Ernie's trades

[Jay81]

Three by Chalmers. Block. Three buy Battier.

I have to give it to the Heat. That was just too good. Instead of down 3, now OKC is back down 11.

Miami is earning this.

stupid play by Durant thinking he was Chris Paul

[Ruzious]

Granted, Miami is earning this, but that flagrant foul call on Fisher trying to draw a charge on Lebron is emblematic of the officiating problems. There's no way that's even considered a possibility if it's against anyone other than Lebron. What a terrible call.

[LyricalRico]

I like this team. It's going to be a team that plays hard, is real good defensively, plays as a team, plays smart, and win or lose it will be a tough team to play against. I for one am looking forward to it after these past few seasons of McGee, Young and Blatche.

[W. Unseld]

I apologize if this has already been posted but I promise this article covers the trade from an angle that no other article has yet:
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2012/6/21/3 ... ariza-hook

[Jay81]

Miami clears cap space for Lebron James and Chris Bosh
Ted clears cap space for Okafor and Ariza

[jivelikenice]

I apologize if this has already been posted but I promise this article covers the trade from an angle that no other article has yet:
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2012/6/21/3 ... ariza-hook

Great take on the deal. I've been supportive of the deal. I don't love it, but I see the logic behind it. Time to focus on bring in some wing players.

[hands11]

Wow, this thread moves like greased lightning. So yeah, this clearly isn't an ideal trade, but it tells us a few things into Ted and EG's mindset:

1. The Wizards mgmt has decided they most likely will have the core pieces necessary to surround Wall after this draft. This means they are expecting great things out of Seraphin, and most likely, Vesely. I doubt either get traded. I also believe they'll do just fine in getting quality minutes. The question here is whether we see Vesely at SF this season - otherwise, I don't see how he gets the minutes.

2. Ted's message basically said that nobody good is coming to DC through FA until we start winning games. This move is intended to do that. They probably took the only deal they could which turned Lewis' contract into productive players.

3. Ted doesn't like the idea of throwing money away. Ted is OK with overpaying players, but does not seem thrilled with paying players to leave. This bodes ill for the upcoming Blatche decision.

Ultimately, I do believe this move helps us win more games and helps us establish a tough, defensive minded professional team. But really, for this deal to be a success, we need a change in Ariza's play to his old Lakers self, and we need to be able to turn over Okafor for something like a wing next season. If we make it to the playoffs, it would also be great to see a highly sought after FA make Washington their home in the next year or two. If this happens, this deal will have been well worth it.

sfam

You have become one of my favorite posters to read. You are level headed most the time and you get to the root of what is most likely the true evaluation of the situation.

Let me add to your points. By adding these players, at least they put vet faces on the team that other players can recognize. I like me some James Singleton and if he isn't here, I think that will suck. But Oka and Ariza are two FA names that are bigger then Martin and J Singleton. Add Nene to the group and all the sudden the team has a more professional face. It isn't just kid and D leaguers. Add wins to that face and they will start to earn respect and other player will consider playing here.

Here is one challenge I see though going forward. How do you move those contracts as expiring and move Dray as well. A one year remaining expiring has to match up to some dollar amount in return. One option is to get two in return. One less expensive and one that you can buy out. That would lower the cap. Dray will be a different challenge all together. After this year he will have two years remaining. It isn't going to be easy to move two of those contracts and not bring back cost.

But I think they are a playoff team if they bring back Mason and draft Beal. And playoff experience is what all these young players need to grow. Playoffs is a totally different level of play. They have to experience it so they can work in the off season to get to a higher level.

That is what this is about. Ted didnt want to throw away money and they needed more vet depth to help get to the playoffs and play as well as possible once there.

I'm still not convinced anyone added is guaranteed a start roll though. And with Oka coming off a knee injury, they should bring him along slowly which mean plenty of minutes for KS, Ves and Booker. Book will also need to fight to prove he can cover the 3s. Trevor A can guard some 2s

Wall, Ariza, Booker can line up some at 1, 2, 3 with Nene and Ves or Nene and Kevin or you can swop in Beal when ready or Mason.

They can make it work. Plus players can stay fresh instead of pulling an EFJ and burning everyone out by the ASB while piling up a nice win total only to crash and burn heading into the playoffs. With this front court, you can rest Nene or Oka for a few games during the season ala SA and create good lineups. I can see Nene, Oka and Booker playing only 70 by design instead of by injury.

[The Consiglieri]

Flail your arms around in circles, I can take a pic, and we'll have the Boulez coat of arms.

LOL, glad somebody remembers that show. I'll have to modernize it - Danger, Ernie Grunfeld! Danger, Ernie Grunfeld! He does not compute! This trade sucks! Self-destruct!"[/quote]

Lol, of course, used to watch it when i was little on summer morning tv along with the monkees, and ultra man in the afternoon, oh the late seventies and early eighties, an age gone forever, and never to return.

It's funny, he seemed to be a rent-a-robot in hollywood, i think they used the same robot in Forbidden Planet.

[hands11]

As I continue to digest the trade (and I'm still of the mindset that neither Okafor nor Ariza add much beyond what we've got at huge salaries), I think there are two things that really bother me.

1) This was a massive overreaction to the youth movement. They spent 2+ seasons giving Crawford, Booker, Vesely, Seraphin, Singleton etc minutes to develop them and it seemed like that was just starting to pay off. I fully supported the move to acquire some veteran balance and Nene's play and presence brought a new maturity and attitude to the locker room but that seemed to be enough. There were ways to bring in rotation veterans at < $20M/year.

2) The language that Ted/EG use are the language of losers. While I am ok with using trades rather than free agency to take on smaller salary commitments (over time), I don't like how open they are in saying "well we don't think anyone would have voluntarily taken our money." Contrast that to the new Warriors owners who were aggressive in trying to trade for Dwight Howard even though he said he wouldn't sign an extension. The Warriors owners message was "that's ok, we think you are going to love it here and we're going to win big and we'd love the opportunity to change your mind.". The fact that free agents have such a low opinion of DC is exactly why Grunfeld should have been fired, not anything to do with his basketball moves.

How did that work out for the Warriers owner. Did he get his FA ? They are at 56M and so are we. Only we got two vets plus another in Nene.

You want be them http://hoopshype.com/salaries/golden_state.htm
or us http://hoopshype.com/salaries/washington.htm

[veji1]

reading all the differents comments is very, how to phrase that, enlightening.. Lots of guys complaining that the Wiz just threw away the OKC blueprint... Excuse me ? How many teams in the last 10 years have managed to pull off the OKC blueprint ? just one : OKC. For various reasons the Blazers rebuild through draft failed.. the Heat rebuilt as much through FA (Shaq than Bron and Bosh) than through the draft (Wade) in the meanwhile Orlando, Toronto, Wash, the Cavs, have had varied fortunes and even the Bulls with Rose were not rebuilt through the draft, it was a solid team that through a mediocre season lucked on the 1st pick...

So please. The FO has decided that they were sick of being a poor team on an endless road to reconstruction and that they wanted to get better NOW, as this was the key to get better in the future... That is their analysis. Accumulating high picks between 2009 and 2011 didn't pan out, once Néné was acquired, the picks weren't going to be that high and FAs still weren't going to come.

Now the team and the players know where they stand : The FO has just done a trade that means "you are the team for the next 2 years and your goal is simple, win as much as you can. we will take it from there".

This is very very refreshing. for the first time in 5 years the Zards will play to win. They wille defend hard, they will still lose a lot, but they will also get some nice wins, get on some small winnign streaks, vie for the playoffs.

Just enjoy that. Instead of just constantly dream about a better future through capspace and deals and FAs, you now have 2 years of present. not dominant, not great, but competitive... there is 30 teams in the league, not all of them can vie for the title. This is just realism speaking. The fact that every team endlessly reboots when they were not playing for the title makes the league horrible to watch. Let's just enjoy the fact that this team will not overthink it anymore, and will just try to play hardnosed competitive basketball for the next 2 years.

Once we are in feb 2014, than you can think again about the future, and how that new hard working culture can impact the future of the team, will it net FAs, etc... But this is not the time. Making a reasonnable major splash this summer or next was a pipe dream. Between paying Okafor and Ariza for 2 years and just enjoying the present with a team vying for the POs and paying Batum 5/100 or Ilyasova 5/80, the choice made makes sense.

Might not make fans dream, but that is not the point. Now there will be actual basketball games in DC, with a team playing to win.

[JonathanJoseph]

As I continue to digest the trade (and I'm still of the mindset that neither Okafor nor Ariza add much beyond what we've got at huge salaries), I think there are two things that really bother me.

1) This was a massive overreaction to the youth movement. They spent 2+ seasons giving Crawford, Booker, Vesely, Seraphin, Singleton etc minutes to develop them and it seemed like that was just starting to pay off. I fully supported the move to acquire some veteran balance and Nene's play and presence brought a new maturity and attitude to the locker room but that seemed to be enough. There were ways to bring in rotation veterans at < $20M/year.

2) The language that Ted/EG use are the language of losers. While I am ok with using trades rather than free agency to take on smaller salary commitments (over time), I don't like how open they are in saying "well we don't think anyone would have voluntarily taken our money." Contrast that to the new Warriors owners who were aggressive in trying to trade for Dwight Howard even though he said he wouldn't sign an extension. The Warriors owners message was "that's ok, we think you are going to love it here and we're going to win big and we'd love the opportunity to change your mind.". The fact that free agents have such a low opinion of DC is exactly why Grunfeld should have been fired, not anything to do with his basketball moves.

How did that work out for the Warriers owner. Did he get his FA ? They are at 56M and so are we. Only we got two vets plus another in Nene.

You want be them http://hoopshype.com/salaries/golden_state.htm
or us http://hoopshype.com/salaries/washington.htm

You are confusing the situation. It's not like superstars are available on the market regularly. The Warriors owners want a superstar, brought Jerry West into ownership and are willing to spend money on top of building a sweet stadium in SF. I have a very good feeling they will figure it out even if they weren't able to land a superstar on their first try.

[veji1]

Sure but aren't sport fans sick of waiting to be able to land a superstar ? wouldn't you rather just try to see a competitive team than watch the mascarade that this team was ?

That trade just meant "stop dreaming and start playing". Might not be a dream come true, but the bball played will competitive.

[BruceO]

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/trevor_ar ... stats.html

Dunno if ariza is any worse than he used to be. His three point shooting and free throw shooting percentage is among the best he's had. Low fg percentage but I assume from other numbers he shoots better? His rebounding, steals and blocked shots is in line with his career bests. As in it varies very little, and his assist to turnover ratio seems the best it's been. So yeah for those who liked him before I think we are still getting a good version of ariza

[VictorPage44]

A team looking to dump salary is much more likely to want cap space as opposed to an expirer.

A bird in hand is worth two in the bush, but a turd in hand isn't.

Problem is these amazing trades you're predicting could "Arise" suddenly would require an intelligent GM, luck, and a very real possibility of another 18-22 win season for our supposed franchise player.

Risk / Reward

Reward is having some leadership, and getting some wins under our young guys belts. It helps in that regard. It also helps salvage some season ticket holders, and the actual value of the franchise before a whole generation writes them off.

Complete overreaction here. We were never getting Howard, Harden or any top level player......

Again, if that's the attitude, they should find a diffferent business to be in.

Ya, cuz that machismo has worked so well for Dan Snyder.

That's exactly the attitude they need. Realistic. What superstar would want to come to a perennial bottom 3 team? What did capspace get the Nets when they chased Lebron? a bunch of overpaid, 3rd rate free agents on longterm deals. We are in the Nets same boat perception-wise around the league. No significant free agent with a winning attitude is going to want to play here until the team starts winning.

We have Redskins syndrome right now, the only big name free agents we'll get would come to here to kick back and enjoy the city, and probably wouldnt really help get the team turned around. They'd probably look for excuses not to play (Clinton Portis, et al). kevin Garnett's not coming to the Wizards, Tim Duncan would never play for the wizards, dwight would be mocked for his entire career if he signed with the Wizards. Maybe in a couple years, after a couple years of winning, that will change, but for now we'd be getting a monta ellis, rudy gay, mike beasley type, not exactly guys who I'd trust to turn my team around, especially because if they did decide to sign here at this time, it would indicate to me they dont really love the game. I think Ted and Ernie are being pretty perceptive here, they're not gonna let some clown 25 year old bring down the franchise again.

When you're in business, you have to consider all the factors and you cant make decisions with your head in the clouds. Problem with the Black Swan theory when running an NBA team, is that no matter how much you'd like to ignore it or say "the masses are being duped" or whatever BS, the team is there for entertainment. People are fans of the team because they like to watch basketball, and not games between an NBA team and a designated farm team for the rest of the league. So if you go the OKC model, you might strike gold in 30 years and assemble a dream squad that competes for a decade, but that might also never happen and then your stuck with a lousy franchise that nobody cares about. I'd much rather be Utah who goes to the playoffs every year, but has never won, than the Wizards who won once before I was born and suck every year.

[veji1]

+1 Victorpage.

The FO has taken the realistic route. Now there might have been better deals to be done once they had decided to take that route, and although the deal looks average to me, it fit in the plan : Start winning some games, as this is the best founding stone for the future.

They have assessed that they already have their young up and coming players that they want to stick to (Wall, n°3, KS, Vesely) and they want to surround them with veteran and professional talent (Nén´. Okafor, Ariza). They are building the team on hardnosed defense and will try to get the the Play offs. this is the team for the next season and a half. Now feb and summer 2014 they will assess the situation and see what they can do personelwise. But at some point you gotta start to play to win games.

Next year the Wiz will be a respectable team, with vets AND youth. That's the big difference with for example the Cats of 2009 who had Diaw, Crash and Pelton : They were a solid team who got to the POs but behin these seasoned pros there was no quality youth.

The Wiz have the quality young players, now it is about creating a winning culture that will get people coming.

imagine a middle of the road scenarion that next year the Wiz end up with 40 wins. well darn, they just miss the POs. But they have a young core of Wall, Beal and KS (i have less faith in VEsely) who have kept improving and the veterans (Néné-Okafor-Ariza). At the trade deadline 2014 they are just above the 500. line, with big expirings. now with a young core that has steadily improved a star player would turn this team in a very solid team. Well at that point the Zards have a chance to get one. Because the FAs or disgruntled stars would think "that team has improved, shown what they cand do and they are young. I could win there" This is possible, while right now any FA would just think "the Wiz ? sure why not, if they offer 100/5..."

The FO has picked a realistic path towards growth with a mix of quality young players and veterans to which there is no money committed on the long term (only Nene). It is a good mix. Talent wise it might have been better, but businesswise it is a good mix...

[willbcocks]

I don't agree with the posts that say this move is justified because it makes us a competitive team. How does picking up players from a fellow rebuilding team that was terrible last year and is so desperate to unload them that they gave away 13 million dollars a move to make us competitive?

These guys aren't that good. The biggest improvement we'll see next year is from Nene and internal improvement. This was just a waste of money and opportunity.