Top 50 player seasons, PLEASE READ pg 4 if you want to vote

[tclg]

04 kg was awesome too haha the numbers are super close for both years. The fringe guys well I was just naming some amazing seasons and I think we are going to do 50 some of those seasons might make it go check them out they did pretty damn awesome. 76 kareem is great Ha ha Looking at the list I need more wilt and russel

[PTB Fan]

Now LBJ's 2011-12 season has to be in there.

[ardee]

Now LBJ's 2011-12 season has to be in there.

I would still rank his '09 season above it for sure. '10 is debatable, depends on how much you hold the last three Boston games against him.

[ardee]

So how about me get started?

Doc MJ? ElGee? Mufasa? JordanBulls? You guys in?

[PTB Fan]

Now LBJ's 2011-12 season has to be in there.

I would still rank his '09 season above it for sure. '10 is debatable, depends on how much you hold the last three Boston games against him.

His '09 season was amazing.

It's arguable. He's a better defender, shooter and post player now. Overall, his skill set was better than to '09. However, in '09 he was more tougher to stop thanks to his athleticism (him bulking up slowed him a bit off the dribble) and equally strong in the clutch.

Eventually the '12 season will go down as better, because he shut down the critics and won a title plus Finals MVP. So overall, I'd lean on this season as his best.

[C-izMe]

Lebron was a better defender in 09. I think he was a deserving (key word) 3rd in DPOY. People just have short memories. This 11-12 year is probably top 50 (it's still not a given) but it won't rank over his 09 and possibly 10 seasons.

[ardee]

Lebron was a better defender in 09. I think he was a deserving (key word) 3rd in DPOY. People just have short memories. This 11-12 year is probably top 50 (it's still not a given) but it won't rank over his 09 and possibly 10 seasons.

2nd. Behind only Dwight.

[C-izMe]

Lebron was a better defender in 09. I think he was a deserving (key word) 3rd in DPOY. People just have short memories. This 11-12 year is probably top 50 (it's still not a given) but it won't rank over his 09 and possibly 10 seasons.

2nd. Behind only Dwight.

Thanks for the correction. I hate that whole short memory thing.

[ardee]

Lebron was a better defender in 09. I think he was a deserving (key word) 3rd in DPOY. People just have short memories. This 11-12 year is probably top 50 (it's still not a given) but it won't rank over his 09 and possibly 10 seasons.

2nd. Behind only Dwight.

Thanks for the correction. I hate that whole short memory thing.

Heh no problem. It's just a reflection of how very few will EVER be able to top that '09 season. LeBron was the best offensive player in the league AND the best non big man defender in the league. That kind of two-way impact is matched only by Jordan in '88 (scoring title, MVP and DPoY, one of the reasons I feel it should merit top 10 discussion, but I doubt people will because they'd rather rank Jordan's later seasons like '92 and '96 higher).

[PTB Fan]

Indeed the '09 season was absolutely amazing. However, I don't think that he was a better defender in '09 than now. He's not exactly the force that he was once in terms off-ball D (chase down blocks, more active on the passing lanes), but he's decent in them and it's his man to man defense that has really improved.

The PER he had speaks a lot about his excellent performance in the PS, but IMO, I'd rank the '12 season just a bit higher due to the accomplishments and overall all-around excellence (not that he didn't do that in '09)..

We'll agree to disagree. This why it's extremely important first to establish a player's peak season before we even start this considering not all of us hold the same opinion.

[ardee]

Indeed the '09 season was absolutely amazing. However, I don't think that he was a better defender in '09 than now. He's not exactly the force that he was once in terms off-ball D (chase down blocks, more active on the passing lanes), but he's decent in them and it's his man to man defense that has really improved.

The PER he had speaks a lot about his excellent performance in the PS, but IMO, I'd rank the '12 season just a bit higher due to the accomplishments and overall all-around excellence (not that he didn't do that in '09)..

We'll agree to disagree. This why it's extremely important first to establish a player's peak season before we even start this considering not all of us hold the same opinion.

Put it this way. '12 LeBron on the '09 Cavs would win maybe 51-53 games. They were extremely dependent on his ability to get into the paint in the half-court, and then kick out for threes. He's a superior all-around scorer now, but can't get to the rim at will in the half-court as he could in 2009. They'd be a good team, but they were tailored around his driving and athleticism, so they wouldn't even approach that 66 wins.

'09 LeBron on the '12 Heat, I think they'd go something like 55-11 or 56-10 and rampage through the Playoffs.

[C-izMe]

Indeed the '09 season was absolutely amazing. However, I don't think that he was a better defender in '09 than now. He's not exactly the force that he was once in terms off-ball D (chase down blocks, more active on the passing lanes), but he's decent in them and it's his man to man defense that has really improved.

The PER he had speaks a lot about his excellent performance in the PS, but IMO, I'd rank the '12 season just a bit higher due to the accomplishments and overall all-around excellence (not that he didn't do that in '09)..

We'll agree to disagree. This why it's extremely important first to establish a player's peak season before we even start this considering not all of us hold the same opinion.

Put it this way. '12 LeBron on the '09 Cavs would win maybe 51-53 games. They were extremely dependent on his ability to get into the paint in the half-court, and then kick out for threes. He's a superior all-around scorer now, but can't get to the rim at will in the half-court as he could in 2009. They'd be a good team, but they were tailored around his driving and athleticism, so they wouldn't even approach that 66 wins.

'09 LeBron on the '12 Heat, I think they'd go something like 55-11 or 56-10 and rampage through the Playoffs.

Couldn't have said it better myself. He couldn't postup (or score without the ball) but only a prime Wade and Jordan could get to the rim like him (special shout out to young Melo who got to the rim at will too).

[PTB Fan]

Indeed the '09 season was absolutely amazing. However, I don't think that he was a better defender in '09 than now. He's not exactly the force that he was once in terms off-ball D (chase down blocks, more active on the passing lanes), but he's decent in them and it's his man to man defense that has really improved.

The PER he had speaks a lot about his excellent performance in the PS, but IMO, I'd rank the '12 season just a bit higher due to the accomplishments and overall all-around excellence (not that he didn't do that in '09)..

We'll agree to disagree. This why it's extremely important first to establish a player's peak season before we even start this considering not all of us hold the same opinion.

Put it this way. '12 LeBron on the '09 Cavs would win maybe 51-53 games. They were extremely dependent on his ability to get into the paint in the half-court, and then kick out for threes. He's a superior all-around scorer now, but can't get to the rim at will in the half-court as he could in 2009. They'd be a good team, but they were tailored around his driving and athleticism, so they wouldn't even approach that 66 wins.

'09 LeBron on the '12 Heat, I think they'd go something like 55-11 or 56-10 and rampage through the Playoffs.

LBJ's half court scoring has probably suffered a bit due to him bulking up and entering the post more often unlike to his Cavaliers days where he'd blew people with his physical gifts and their dependence on him to create the team's shots off the perimeter which made him a productive offensive force.

I don't know how '12 LBJ would have done on '09 simply because I don't like what ifs. I think it's very debatable and that this season beats the '09 with an extremely close edge. Can't ignore the '09 season though for no accolades (ring, Finals MVP) because it was just amazing.

Can't go wrong with either.

[ardee]

Here's another interesting question:

Do we judge players by their dominance relative to the era they played in, or how dominant they would've been in a different era?

Ergo, does '65 Russell get less credit for spearheading the best defense in history because no one could shoot in the 60s, or do we laud it for the incredible feat it is and honor him appropriately?

Does '76 Doc get props for basically being 2012 LeBron on steroids in the ABA, or do we pick apart the competition he faced (was supposedly just as stiff as the NBA, but again, just an example).

In short: era dominance, or ability to transcend era?

[GrangerDanger]

Here's another interesting question:

Do we judge players by their dominance relative to the era they played in, or how dominant they would've been in a different era?

Ergo, does '65 Russell get less credit for spearheading the best defense in history because no one could shoot in the 60s, or do we laud it for the incredible feat it is and honor him appropriately?

Does '76 Doc get props for basically being 2012 LeBron on steroids in the ABA, or do we pick apart the competition he faced (was supposedly just as stiff as the NBA, but again, just an example).

In short: era dominance, or ability to transcend era?

My take:

Era dominace is the most important. Too often people break down older players saying "they couldn't play in THIS era". Why does that matter? Why is this era considered the most important. Lebron couldn't play in the 60s, because he would be called for travels, carries, and palming literally every possesion. And he has proven to be mentally weak, how would he handle opposing fans and players hurling racial slurs at him and throwing broken bottles at him during games like Oscar and Wilt had to deal with? Competition does matter though, and needs to be judged accordingly. Wilt destroying the 67 Celtics for instance is as impressive an individual series as you will find considering all factors

[JordansBulls]

So how about me get started?

Doc MJ? ElGee? Mufasa? JordanBulls? You guys in?

Yeah I'm in.

How long of a project is this going to be? Like a month?? Two Months???

[ardee]

So how about me get started?

Doc MJ? ElGee? Mufasa? JordanBulls? You guys in?

Yeah I'm in.

How long of a project is this going to be? Like a month?? Two Months???

Assuming we did the top 50.... And kept it to like a day for each vote.... I'd assume a little less than 2 months, yeah.

[Doctor MJ]

Hey guys,

I'm locking this thread not because the project is dead, but because I want to make sure no one interested in it misses the new sticky I put up. Your opinion is sought on the matter:

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1196094