Was Kobe Bryant ever the best player in the league?

ReturnofFlash · Post #81 » by **ReturnofFlash** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:45 pm

^ Don't compare Kobe and Jordan please.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlbOrrtPE_s[/youtube]

07 and 08. No way in 2009 or 2010.

KobeBeanBryant · Post #82 » by **KobeBeanBryant** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:46 pm

MannyRam99 wrote:
StrengthNHonor wrote:Laker fans talk about him like if he was the second coming of MJ.

no.

the league and the media talked about him as the second coming of MJ. Its tragic that he wasn't able to live up to the hype at all.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyfR2pDOt3k[/youtube]
Listen to the beginning of the broadcast and then watch the clip. Would you not beleive you are watching a young MJ ????

thought so.

Winning 5 rings, two finals MVP one RS MVP career average of 25/5/5 with elite defense isn't good enough?

Ah I see what you mean the guy is a scrub.

Iplaytolose · Post #83 » by **Iplaytolose** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:47 pm

StrengthNHonor wrote:Kobe only has an argument for best player in the league for maybe 1 to 3 seasons, in his 16 year career.

That is how overrated he is. Laker fans talk about him like if he was the second coming of MJ.

Before LeBron James' emergence the past three or so years, Kobe Bryant has been the only guy in the NBA who has consistently been arguably the best player in the league this past decade. He's easily been the best scorer throughout the last decade, from the beginning to end, there's no debating that. The other guys who have arguably been better than Kobe have 1-2 great seasons or playoff runs then fall off back to their respective normalcy or worse. We always talked about who was better than Kobe. There is no other guy that was respected like that, in that sense. That alone should tell you something.

Illmatic21 · Post #84 » by **Illmatic21** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:48 pm

StrengthNHonor wrote:Kobe only has an argument for best player in the league for maybe 1 to 3 seasons, in his 16 year career.

That is how overrated he is. Laker fans talk about him like if he was the second coming of MJ.

This is such a dumb point of view. The players who were considered better than prime Kobe at any point, were top 6 all time (Shaq and Duncan).

MastaStrategist · Post #85 » by **MastaStrategist** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:51 pm

MannyRam99 wrote:
StrengthNHonor wrote:Laker fans talk about him like if he was the second coming of MJ.

no.

the league and the media talked about him as the second coming of MJ. Its tragic that he wasn't able to live up to the hype at all.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyfR2pDOt3k[/youtube]
Listen to the beginning of the broadcast and then watch the clip. Would you not beleive you are watching a young MJ ????

thought so.

@44 seconds

JF5 · Post #86 » by **JF5** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:51 pm

05-08 he was the best player in the league....

Lightning25 · Post #87 » by **Lightning25** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:56 pm

JF5 wrote:05-08 he was the best player in the league....

By 05 do you mean '05-'06 or '04-'05? I feel like some people are not clarifying this. I would agree if it's '05-'06 but not '04-'05. Kobe had an off-year in '04-'05.

sick_irony · Post #88 » by **sick_irony** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:57 pm

Through the years a lot of players (and coaches) around the league have been quoted as saying that Kobe is the best in the league at some point, but i guess PER tells the story better than guys who actually played against Kobe.
The Kobe hate is insane these days.

TheXFactor · Post #89 » by **TheXFactor** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:58 pm

MannyRam99 wrote:
StrengthNHonor wrote:Laker fans talk about him like if he was the second coming of MJ.

no.

the league and the media talked about him as the second coming of MJ. Its tragic that he wasn't able to live up to the hype at all.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyfR2pDOt3k[/youtube]
Listen to the beginning of the broadcast and then watch the clip. Would you not beleive you are watching a young MJ ????

thought so.

dam how sick was that. Kobe was unbelievable

ShowTimeERA · Post #90 » by **ShowTimeERA** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:00 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxYZAgKRtM8[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtGJSiMqpWk&feature=relmfu[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KKJmSYaC8E&feature=related[/youtube]

Illmatic21 · Post #91 » by **Illmatic21** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:11 pm

Lightning25 wrote:
JF5 wrote:05-08 he was the best player in the league....

By 05 do you mean '05-'06 or '04-'05? I feel like some people are not clarifying this. I would agree if it's '05-'06 but not '04-'05. Kobe had an off-year in '04-'05.

0A-0B means from the season beginning in year 0A, to the season ending in year 0B.

soxfan2003 · Post #92 » by **soxfan2003** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:22 pm

sick_irony wrote:Through the years a lot of players (and coaches) around the league have been quoted as saying that Kobe is the best in the league at some point, but i guess PER tells the story better than guys who actually played against Kobe.
The Kobe hate is insane these days.

Let's face it. Most of these guys are talking heads. They once touted Allen Iverson for MVP when the guy doesn't even deserve to be considered a top 100 player of all time. And they magnified that mistake by selecting Rose.

70% of the Kobe or even Jordan dislike is by folks that recognize both of these players were overrated by a certain extent. This doesn't mean they still aren't the best and second best SG's in the history of the nba.

PER is a stat that favors Jordan or Kobe's volume shooting so if these guys aren't first in that stat, it really says that he may not be the best player in the league that year.

Kobe = second best shooting guard of all time but he is well below Jordan and like virtually every other guy 6"7 and below not named Jordan and perhaps Barkley doesn't deserve significant consideration for a top 15 player of all time if we are judging a player's peak. Barkley with Phoenix was overrated when he won MVP but one of Jordan's MVP's should have actually gone to Barkley when he was with Philly and surrounded with a very bad team.

Basketball is a big man's game at least when it comes to the legit superstar players.

The Bulls were the exception to that rule but they had 2 spectacular HOF players and some other good to great talent.

clipocketurs · Post #93 » by **clipocketurs** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:24 pm

Individual statistical dominance is the best way to measure individual greatness.

PER does the best job of measuring individual statistical dominance.

PER puts all the box score stats into one number and adjusts for pace.

top 2 PER since 99-00

LeBron-6
Shaq-4
Duncan-3
Wade-3
Garnett-2
Dirk-2
Paul-2
Karl Malone-1
Vince-1
McGrady-1
Dwight-1

Kobe-0

If Kobe was so good, how come he has never finished with a top 2 PER?

MastaStrategist · Post #94 » by **MastaStrategist** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:31 pm

clipocketurs wrote:Individual statistical dominance is the best way to measure individual greatness.

PER does the best job of measuring individual statistical dominance.

PER puts all the box score stats into one number and adjusts for pace.

top 2 PER since 99-00

LeBron-6
Shaq-4
Duncan-3
Wade-3
Garnett-2
Dirk-2
Paul-2
Karl Malone-1
Vince-1
McGrady-1
Dwight-1

Kobe-0

If Kobe was so good, how come he has never finished with a top 2 PER?

Because clearly Wade, Vince, Paul and McGrady were all so much better than him.

You just disproved your own argument.

MannyRam99 · Post #95 » by **MannyRam99** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:32 pm

clipocketurs wrote:Individual statistical dominance is the best way to measure individual greatness.

PER does the best job of measuring individual statistical dominance.

PER puts all the box score stats into one number and adjusts for pace.

top 2 PER since 99-00

LeBron-6
Shaq-4
Duncan-3
Wade-3
Garnett-2
Dirk-2
Paul-2
Karl Malone-1
Vince-1
McGrady-1
Dwight-1

Kobe-0

If Kobe was so good, how come he has never finished with a top 2 PER?

The people who abide by PER lets me know who to ignore.

IRL everybody knows that this stat is the most skewed and misleading stat you can think of. The fact that McGrady is listed once and never made it out the first round even with a top 10 all time peak center tells you everything you need to know. John Hollinger is the worst thing to ever happen to basketball analysis. :lol:

There are advannce metric stats taht can make Carlos Boozer seem like a great defender.
carry on with your PER.

Lightning25 · Post #96 » by **Lightning25** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:35 pm

Illmatic21 wrote:0A-0B means from the season beginning in year 0A, to the season ending in year 0B.

I've usually seen people refer to Kobe's best seasons from 06-08 so I was just curious. I'm assuming many others are like me though which is why people are wondering why they are seeing 05 especially when it was an off-year for Kobe.

clipocketurs wrote:If Kobe was so good, how come he has never finished with a top 2 PER?

I didn't know it was a requirement that in order to be the best player in the league, you had to be top 2 in PER. :roll:

primecougar · Post #97 » by **primecougar** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:42 pm

He had a case in 2002-2003 when he avg 30-7-6-2.2

From 05-06to 09 he was the clear cut best player in the league.
Coaches/gms/players/ media/ and EVEN LEBRON FRIQQEN JAMES SAID KOBE'S BETTER THAN HIM AND HE'S THE BEST PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE. on top of that mj/magic Johnson all these guys said Kobe's clearly the better player.
He was setting scoring records with some of the worst teammates ever. He made a joke of scoring in the nba. No one could stop him.
For those saying Lebron was unbelievable in 09 forget to mention he was a crappy defender that season and was getting torched by everyone in the Orlando lineup. Remember he couldn't guard Turk so they put him on Lewis and then Alston torched his ass for 26 points.

2010 was the year where he passed the torch to Lebron.Ever since Lebron has been the best player in the league.

Illmatic21 · Post #98 » by **Illmatic21** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:48 pm

soxfan2003 wrote:
sick_irony wrote:Through the years a lot of players (and coaches) around the league have been quoted as saying that Kobe is the best in the league at some point, but i guess PER tells the story better than guys who actually played against Kobe.
The Kobe hate is insane these days.

Let's face it. Most of these guys are talking heads. They once touted Allen Iverson for MVP when the guy doesn't even deserve to be considered a top 100 player of all time.

I can't tell, do you really believe that or was that just hyperbole to make a point?

RutgersBJJ · Post #99 » by **RutgersBJJ** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:48 pm

Nash's 2nd MVP season Kobe was clearly the best player in the league. I won't say Nash's first MVP season because I think Shaq was still the best that year.

Illmatic21 · Post #100 » by **Illmatic21** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:53 pm

Lightning25 wrote:
Illmatic21 wrote:0A-0B means from the season beginning in year 0A, to the season ending in year 0B.

I've usually seen people refer to Kobe's best seasons from 06-08 so I was just curious. I'm assuming many others are like me though which is why people are wondering why they are seeing 05 especially when it was an off-year for Kobe.

Nah man, you still don't get it. '04 was his off year (the season beginning in '04 aka 2004-2005).

Why would you refer to a season by the year it ends in? 2005-2006 = '05, because 2005 was when one began playing games that counted towards the 2005-2006 season.