Wiz trade Shard and 2nd rounder for Okafor and Ariza

[nate33]

I don't see how you see Ariza as redundant. We had zero competent wings. He is one--even if overpaid.

I think Ariza at this stage of his career isn't much better than Singleton and definitely isn't better than Danny Green, Brandon Rush, Courtney Lee or whatever other defensive-minded wing we could find cheaply in free agency.

[hands11]

DCZards. I agree with your take on this. A lot of people seem like they want to perpetually rebuild and start from scratch repeatedly. Tanking was viewed as a good thing by a lot of folks and look where it got us....You have to win to gain respectability. To learn to win you have to learn how to play. I'm a partial plan holder and it sickened me to watch how clueless some of our young players are. Nothing was gained from the constant losing. You don't figure out how to win on the court. You figure out in your preparation and work ethic and watching people who know what it takes to be a professional. We've only won 12 road games in 2 seasons/ What are we gaining from this? We made the deal at minimal cost this season and we gave up none of our young players, we kept our 3rd pick, and still have a high 2nd rd pick. What's the problem? Who were we going to get without grossly overpaying next offseason? What's wrong with young players EARNING PT? We actually have the chance to be a decent team that might be attractive to potential FAs when Okafor and Ariza's contracts expire in two yrs.

I can't speak to what "a lot of people seem like", but I'm not interested in perpetual rebuilding -- which is why I don't like this trade. I thought the team was on a good path to BUILD a contender. With this trade, they've edged a bit closer to mediocrity, but they've limited their ability to take that next step. I think there's a real possibility that they could be in rebuild mode two years from now when Okafor and Ariza are expiring, when Nene is declining because of age, when Wall is going to be looking for a new deal.

I hope I'm wrong. In my estimation, this looks like a move that might get the Wizards to a 7th or 8th seed -- at best. And then they're going to need to find replacements for guys -- again. It's a short-term move at a time when I think the Wizards still need to be thinking long-term.

But you know, the deal is done now. It's clear Ernie/Ted are trying to get back in playoff contention. If so, the smart move might be to see if they can swap the 3rd pick for a quality veteran SG. See if OKC might take the 3rd for Harden. Or some other similar option. With the frontcourt they have, there's a two-year window to reach the playoffs. Beal won't be ready that quick. No one in the draft will be. Might as well get a veteran who can really play and see what they can do.

When you are a team that was in as big a mess a the Wizards were post Gil and the gun deal, you keep building until you have a really good team, and then you keep tweaking that. They were not going to trade away the young players this year. Nothing has changed. Lewis was dead money. They simply converted that into actually assets. Nothing major has change about the rebuild except they have more defensive rebound and a SF who can defend and both have legit NBA experience. This team is still about growing the young player. That is the long term plan. Its not like they have two or three older vets signed to 3 or 4 year contracts. They have 1 and it isn't even that big of a contract.

By the time Nene is nearing the end of his contract, Ves and Kevin while be a whopping 24 years old with Nene probably transitioning into a back up role. But that might not even be the case. In two years Nene will still only be 31. Why are people writing him off a done at 31 ?

They have plenty of time to make adjustment. But first, how about we see what they actually have. They only had Nene playing for a little bit to end the season. And Booker went out also. Ves was in his first year with no summer camp. Wall had a terrible start to the season but ended playing much much better. And Kevin found his stride down the stretch once Randy was coach. And they are about to add the #3 who is likely going to be 18. What are people so worried about ?

This trade did pretty much nothing to change the corse they were on or the future path with the younger players. Not as it stand today.

[closg00]

Jason Reid comes-through again, glad he isn't a stenographer like most Washington sports reporters.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wi ... story.html

[Kanyewest]

The Hornets were a 49 win team before Okafor got there. In the two full seasons after, when Okafor was completely healthy, they won 37 and 46 games. If he didn't add wins for them why would we believe he will add a significant number of wins here?

When the Hornets won 37 games, Chris Paul only played 45 games. The team that only won 46 games missed David West at the end of the regular season and the postseason and could have been poised for a deeper playoff run. Okafor was swapped for Tyson Chandler so even if the Hornets didn't improve doesn't discount that Okafor was still a solid player.

[popper]

I'm feeling really encouraged after reading the following article regarding Okafor's improved offensive game. I think he and Ariza are going to improve the team more than people might expect.

http://www.hornets247.com/blog/2012/02/ ... ole-story/

[VictorPage44]

But nate, all those guys you mentioned are going to get $20-30 Mil in free agency over four years, that's effectively what we're paying Ariza AND Okafor. I've already said that like five times, but Nate you continue to ignore it. Your cheap bargains are a figment of your imagination. Why dont you suggest a specific plan so when those guys sign for $40 m somewhere, we can come back here and see that you didnt know what you were talking about. But you've left that open, you'll just critisize this trade, saying there were so many smarter alternatives, but 70 pages later and you've brought forth no alternatives or what you think they'll cost. Its easy to sit here and say, ya we'll just pay Green $4mil per, but you're not realizing we have to outbid other teams for these players, they get to decide where they play. So in Nate's fantasy world we could have signed c.lee or d. green cheaply, but as has been said to death, no one's picking the Wizards over the Spurs at the same amount of money. Wizards have to outbid almost every other team for players at this point.

You also put way too much stock in half seasons. Like how our guys are already solid NBA players because they finished the year .500 (even though you couldnt ask for an easier schedule than the Wizards closed with). Danny Green played for the easiest system to succeed at 3 & D in the league. He shot nothing but wide open jumpers, and isnt nearly the man-to-man defender Ariza is. He took advantage of playing for the best regular season team in the league/best coached team. Literally the easiest situation in the league. Investing $30 m in D Green right now, would be silly. Go look at what J rich, aflalo, matthews, all the wings got the last two years. It aint cheap, and effectively its gonna cost you what okafor + ariza - Lewis cost you anyways, for four seasons. If you actually pay attention to how free agency works, and didnt live in a little fantasy world where the wizards end up with the best free agent bargain every year, you'd be able to accept why this trade was smart.

I'm glad after 70 pages there's still no evidence that Ariza and Okafor suck. That's just more BS propaganda from anti-trade folks who really have no idea what they're talking about in regards to these players that we just got, but they'd like to convince you these are facts taken from the scriptures. In fact all the articles coming from their old teams say how they were the best professionals and defensive players on their team. Then you have tontoz cherrypicking stats, but I've ignored him past 40 pages.

I forgot the part in Phil Jackson's book where he said you can only have 1 veteran big man and 1 rebounder on the team, otherwise it gets redundant. Describing this trade as making us redundant is absolute balogni. We didnt have guys who knew how to rotate on defense or even play hard all game. We had undersized (ves is tall, but I'm talking about doing work in the paint), offensive power forwards. We added a defensive big and defensive sf. Ariza is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than Singleton. See we sit here and say, this trade sucks cuz he's no better than our player x, who happens to never have done anything in the league, compared to Ariza and Okafor who have been solid players their entire careers (save maybe one season when Ariza signed with Houston as a FA and maybe the hype got to his head a bit, since that one season, that many anti-trade guys want to use to still characterize Ariza, he's back to playing his normal game). He shoots half as much as Crawford, and Crawford's main attribute is scoring. Scoring is last on Ariza's list, and he's still not as bad as Crawford cuz Crawford's percentages are the same and he shoots way more.

[VictorPage44]

also we're talking about a free agent market where Kwame Brown got 1 yr $7m. Keep that in mind when you're contemplating all the better things we could've done with $10m in capspace.

[nate33]

I'm feeling really encouraged after reading the following article regarding Okafor's improved offensive game. I think he and Ariza are going to improve the team more than people might expect.

http://www.hornets247.com/blog/2012/02/ ... ole-story/

I didn't find that encouraging at all. Okafor's shooting percentage at the rim increased dramatically last year so we're supposed to feel good. But that increase came with a concurrent decrease in shot attempts.

Every player gets X number of "gimme's" at the basket from fast breaks, blown assignments, offensive rebounds or drive-and-dishes from the PG. Any competent big man should shoot an extremely high percentage of these shots so a high percentage on low attempts is nothing to write home about. It looks to me that Okafor simply attempted fewer contested shots in the paint.

[VictorPage44]

I'm feeling really encouraged after reading the following article regarding Okafor's improved offensive game. I think he and Ariza are going to improve the team more than people might expect.

http://www.hornets247.com/blog/2012/02/ ... ole-story/

It looks to me that Okafor simply attempted fewer contested shots in the paint.

That's a bad thing? Taking good shots helps you win games.

[Illuminaire]

Nate made a direct response to an article claiming that Okafor had an improved offensive game. Nate never said efficiency was a bad thing, only that the article was not a source of encouragement.

Context, dude. Context.

[VictorPage44]

I did take it a little out of context and I realized that afterwards. I left it up cuz on the one hand you have a guy saying it's gonna make the team better (a guy not taking bad shots will make a team better, especially this team). Then you have nate arguing that the trade doesnt make us any better, but this is yet another area of contcern that the wizards had, that Okafor helps with.

Edit: so you can look at it with the attitude of blah "I'm not encouraged". Or you can say, Okafor no longer tries to back his man down and score around the rim, he likes to quickly kick the ball out to the guard, and go set an on-ball screen and roll to get open. That's how you play to win. Okafor is smart and will play to win, not try to score over people just because he can %50 of the time, he'll try to get the best shot everytime. We need that influence. Nene helps too, but there's no limit to the amount of complete, veteran team players you have. If there is, it shouldnt be 1.

[hands11]

An author who covers the Hornets beat for SB Nation tells Wiz fans what he thinks they're getting, it's a very good read:
http://mobile.bulletsforever.com/2012/6 ... evor-ariza

Great stuff. Thanks for the post.

That helps to better understand the players we added and how they can be productive.

[hands11]

This from the sbnation Q&A with the guy who covers the Hornets.

"Okafor can still play. Well, both can still play, but Ariza comes with some.. asterisks. But to start with Okafor, I think the "prime" characterization is probably accurate. He's a very solid rebounder (I wouldn't buy his lowered rates from the lockout year as indicative of a larger trend; SSS and he was unhealthy), he excels at long tap-outs for offensive boards he has no business getting, and he's a solid screen setter. Obviously relying on him for offense will never be a smart move, but he generally can take smaller matchups if they present themselves."

"He's also a very positionally aware defender; he'll make all the appropriate rotations with ample anticipation and is strong and laterally quick enough to defend the majority of NBA post options. When Monty Williams joined the Hornets in 2010, he designed a defensive system meshing some aspects of zone as well as Thibodeau's strong-side help scheme, with Okafor as the centerpiece. New Orleans ranked in the top-5 defensively up until January when the majority of the team fell apart with injuries (Chris Paul, David West, and Ariza all going down). If I could describe Okafor in a word, it'd be intelligent. Both ends. It's very clear watching him play just how much effort he puts into preparation, and that certainly allows him to offset his height (6'9" without shoes)."

So what were those numbers again. With Nene we were to 15 defense. Now we added 2 guy that had their team at top 5 defense. Plus, C Singleton will get better in his second year and now he has TA to learn from. Ves is also going to improve from last year. I expect him to be a more productive rebounder and shot blocker. But mostly I think he position D will improve. Sound like Oka can help teach him that and Nene is already a great teacher for boxing out. Nene and Oka should be great teachers for Kevin and Ves and TA should be able to help C Singleton. The more you examine this deal the better it looks. They broke up one huge deal of a player that game them nothing for two smaller contracts for players who can still play and can teach the young guns. This should help the team and more specifically, it should allow Wall to settle into a winning style at PG. Now they just need to build out at SG and back up PG.

Here is an example of a NO line up that produced good D. So where do you think the Wiz defense will rank next year ?

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=320127003

[tontoz]

I'm feeling really encouraged after reading the following article regarding Okafor's improved offensive game. I think he and Ariza are going to improve the team more than people might expect.

http://www.hornets247.com/blog/2012/02/ ... ole-story/

This past season Seraphin scored 15.4 pts per 40 minutes with a TS% of 55%. He did this in spite of hardly seeing the ball before the trade. In April he averaged 19 pts per 40.

The last time Okafor beat Seraphins yearly numbers was the 08/09 season.

[Bickerstaff]

I'm feeling really encouraged after reading the following article regarding Okafor's improved offensive game. I think he and Ariza are going to improve the team more than people might expect.

http://www.hornets247.com/blog/2012/02/ ... ole-story/

This past season Seraphin scored 15.4 pts per 40 minutes with a TS% of 55%. He did this in spite of hardly seeing the ball before the trade. In April he averaged 19 pts per 40.

The last time Okafor beat Seraphins yearly numbers was the 08/09 season.

And when was the last time Seraphin beat Okarfor's rebounding numbers?

[DCZards]

This past season Seraphin scored 15.4 pts per 40 minutes with a TS% of 55%. He did this in spite of hardly seeing the ball before the trade. In April he averaged 19 pts per 40.

The last time Okafor beat Seraphins yearly numbers was the 08/09 season.

I was impressed by how well Seraphin played at the end of last season. I have high hopes for him. But let's not forget that he accumulated most of those stats in a handful of games either against lousy teams or playoff- bound teams resting their stars.

It will be good to have Okafor around to show a young guy like Kevin how to rebound and defend with both your body and your brains. How to set solid picks...and a few other things.

[nate33]

I'm tired of this argument that adding Player X who can do Skill Y is going to help our players do Skill Y. Okafor isn't going to show Seraphin how to rebound any better than his coaches can show him. All Okafor is going to do is take minutes from Seraphin a limit his opportunities to develop and possibly affect his confidence.

I'm not saying Okafor can't help this team, particularly if we have injuries and need more depth. I'm just not buying the notion that Okafor is going to make Seraphin, Vesely and Booker better. If anything, his presence will make it harder for them to improve.

[DCZards]

Quite frankly...I'm tired about arguing about this issue period. Okafor and Ariza are Zards until further notice. Get over it! Now, on to the draft thread...or maybe doc's "optimism" thread.

[Kanyewest]

I'm tired of this argument that adding Player X who can do Skill Y is going to help our players do Skill Y. Okafor isn't going to show Seraphin how to rebound any better than his coaches can show him. All Okafor is going to do is take minutes from Seraphin a limit his opportunities to develop and possibly affect his confidence.

I'm not saying Okafor can't help this team, particularly if we have injuries and need more depth. I'm just not buying the notion that Okafor is going to make Seraphin, Vesely and Booker better. If anything, his presence will make it harder for them to improve.

I think Seraphin can learn a few things Okafor but I agree that learning from veterans can be a bit overrated (see John Wall learning how to shoot and play defense from Kirk Hinrich). Although I believe Seraphin can learn quite a bit and prepare himself better by practicing against Okafor as opposed to Nene and his coaches.

Yes, the trade has the potential to limit Seraphin's minutes, but I don't think it's the end of the world if we don't give Seraphin, Vesley, and Booker minutes. Giving minutes to players doesn't always help their development (see Andray Blatche).

The added depth should also allow the Wizards to play more aggressively both offensively and defensively since they shouldn't have to be concerned as much about foul trouble.

[FAH1223]

I think Seraphin is going to keep the starting job in camp. I bet he will come in impressing everyone and Okafor will have to come off the bench. Gut feeling is that. Wittman so far has said he will play whoever is playing the best and I think Seraphin will prove to be that with another summer of work.