Deng to GS PG.13 / PG.43 Bulls Say Otherwise

[ChicagoStrong]

We can't trade Deng! He is the glue!

I hope the Bulls can get a top ten pick!

Bulls need young players that can score and play with Rose in his prime.

They are only looking to move him because Boozer is untradeable. Try again.

Lebron lights up Deng anyways.

He lights up everyone. Keep trying.

You might be the WOAT.

[Irregular]

How can the Bulls mismange the cap so badly?

[ChicagoStrong]

How can the Bulls mismange the cap so badly?

They didn't. The CBA changed.

Keep trying.

[make a move]

Boogydown whose to say Hamilton won't be traded this summer?

[SpeedyWindRose]

This may very well belong in the draft thread, and someone can direct me there if need be... but assuming we make this Deng for #7 deal, who exactly are we targeting? Barnes? Beal? Lamb? And who can we expect to be there?

I normally don't follow the draft that closely unless the Bulls are in the lottery. Guess I'll have to do some homework if this deal goes down...

At 7 Beal and Barnes will most certainly be gone... so... Lamb? Idk. That's probably why we've heard more stuff about the #2/#5 picks

[Indomitable]

I'm not here to make basketball decisions for the Bulls, but when people act like it's Boozer's fault for getting paid and producing, I have a problem.

He has underperformed his contract which is why people do not want him in trade. If he was playing at 20 and 10 with high efficiency. He would be more marketable. He has not been what they wanted. They are getting Brandon Bass like production out of him. He has been a disappointment.

He has not played the last quarter of the last game in two consecutive seasons. I could careless about per. Play when it matters. He finished the season watching the season end. That says a lot more about his importance to me.

[Irregular]

Bulls are going to clear cap space one way or another.

Fan favorites be damned.

If the Bulls can get Beal he would be perfect to team up with Rose for the future.

[ChicagoStrong]

Bulls are going to clear cap space one way or another.

Fan favorites be damned.

If the Bulls can get Beal he would be perfect to team up with Rose for the future.

The Bulls still won't have cap space for a while.

[Darius Miles Davis]

With this talk of trading Deng and releasing Korver and Brewer, now who is going to attempt to guard LeBron? Jimmy Butler for 48 min?

[mjaye]

Current Roster

1. Rose - $15.5M
2. Boozer - $15M
3. Deng - $13.3M
4. Noah - $11.3M
5. Hamilton - $5M
6. Korver - $5M
7. Brewer - $4.37M
8. Watson - $3.4M
9. Asik - $2.3M
10. Gibson - $2.1M
11. Butler - $1.08M
12. Lucas III - $900K
13. Scalabrine - $850K

This roster comes in at a shade over $80M. You can trade out one of Korver/Brewer/Watson for the Bulls 29th Pick, but chances are you won't get the same level of production. Even if you do, the savings is at most $3.5M and will mostly be offset by Asik's contract increase, still leaving the team well over the luxury tax threshold.

Adjusted Roster

1. Rose - $15.5M
2.
3..
4. Hamilton - $5M
5. Asik - $5M
6. Draft Pick #5 - $2.8M
7. Draft Pick #7 - $2.3M
8. Gibson - $2.1M
9. Butler - $1.08M
10. Draft Pick (#29) - $857K
11. Draft Pick (2nd rd) - $800K
12. Vet Min - $900K
13. Vet Min - $850K

In this scenario the Bulls trade Deng and Noah for draft picks. The draft picks aren't replacing Deng and Noah, rather they're take the spots of Korver/Brewer/Watson.

The Bulls know the level of performance they'll get out of the existing three role players, while the draft picks potential ceiling is MUCH higher. Even if the picks' ceiling isn't achieved their floor only needs to match up with Korver/Brewer/Watson's output to have replacements on smaller contracts.

The total for the adjusted roster comes in at a tad over $37M, leaving over $20M before hitting the salary cap, which can be exceeded by utilizing the trade exceptions generated by the Deng/Noah trades.

In the end, do you gamble and hope the dropoff from Noah to Asik and the loss of a known bench quantity can be overcome by the Bulls upgrading over Boozer, Deng and a lottery-pick filled bench?

And even if it's a wash, the latter roster costs much less than the former.

[Indomitable]

How can the Bulls mismange the cap so badly?

Similar to the Krause failure in free agency. We easily had the most money of any team. the league in the 1999 cba instituted max money. This was done to stop the KG kind of contracts.

I believe we could have bought TMAC. We would have had him, Elton, Jamal and history might have been different.

[DJhitek]

I'm ok with any direction the Bulls will take because I understand both sides.

I don't fancy this to the Ben Wallace situation because Tyson who just got paid the previous summer, came off his worst season because he got lazy. As much as I believe this team can contend every year as currently constructed, I don't think it's good enough to beat the Heat and as it stands, Derricks injury puts this current model in a world of hurt next season and beyond.

Simply put, this team was built to win now. If it can't win now, why keep it together as such?

[U boj]

If we're able to trade Deng to Sac or GS for their pick and can trade Boozer for a SF like Turkoglu, what do you guys think about drafting Thomas Robinson?

So we're using Deng + Boozer to get Robinson? Yikes.

Boozer isn't that bad. He's our #3 Option. If we clear Deng, we don't really need to move Boozer anymore.

Yes we do. As soon as possible.

[RichardsRival3]

Seems like my scenario for tanking is becoming more and more realistic.

Tank in 2012, build for 2013.

[Hokie]

This may very well belong in the draft thread, and someone can direct me there if need be... but assuming we make this Deng for #7 deal, who exactly are we targeting? Barnes? Beal? Lamb? And who can we expect to be there?

I normally don't follow the draft that closely unless the Bulls are in the lottery. Guess I'll have to do some homework if this deal goes down...

At 7 Beal and Barnes will most certainly be gone... so... Lamb? Idk. That's probably why we've heard more stuff about the #2/#5 picks

That's what I figured. Have we been linked to anyone? I remember reading that we worked out Barnes a few weeks ago. I've watched a lot of Barnes (VT grad, so an ACC hoops fan) and I'm not sold that he'll live up to the hype he had coming out of high school. Reminds me a lot of another overyhyped UNC prospect, Marvin Williams.

I don't know much about Beal or Lamb other than supposedly Beal has a Ray Allen-type release. I'm just not totally sold that any of these guys can be #2 option this team needs.

Though a guy I really like is Austin Rivers. I'm always skeptical to take a Dookie but he really impressed me last season. Guy knows how to get in the lane and draw a foul. Just needs to work on his jumper. Way too inconsistent. Has a good handle.

So what about Rivers or Terrance Ross?

Edit: I should probably take this to the draft thread... my original thought was simply are we linked to anyone?

[HomoSapien]

In 2006, the Bulls signed Ben Wallace to a $60M deal. A few days later, they traded Tyson Chandler for an expiring contract. I was rather vocal about this bait and switch move by the Bulls to not take on any salary. I was told that PJ Brown was a valuable expiring. During that season and directly afterwards, the Bulls had chances to deal PJ Brown and other assets for Gasol but did not. It was clearly about avoiding luxury tax.

Deng for a draft pick is the same thing. We will hear about flexibility and potential, but I virtually guarantee than any salary saved on Deng will not be used.

Beyond that, Deng is a free agent in two years where the team would have either full flexibility to use that money somewhere else or resign him on a much more reasonable deal. Chicago would have his Bird rights and based on projections, there aren't going to be a lot of teams under the new restrictive salary cap.

So, yeah, IMO trading Deng for a single year of luxury tax relief is just an awful kick in the nuts for Bulls fans.

I'll criticize management here. I think they put together a very good team under the circumstances. I think they have a good eye for getting role players that fit and a general philosophy that works. That being said, my complaint with them is the same over and over: I don't mind not paying the tax. I don't mind giving out big contracts. But for god's sake, if you aren't going to pay the tax DON'T GIVE OUT CONTRACTS LIKE YOU ARE!!!!

Boozer's contract could have been more frontloaded and so could Deng and Noah's. This would have chipped off a few million from the available salary, maybe losing you Brewer but it would have put Chicago in a better position in the long term. Another huge mistake was Rip Hamilton. Why do you sign that guy if its going to force you to dump Deng or Noah for a prospect?!?!?!

Rose's injury changed the philosophy, IMO.

If we win a ring or get to the finals you probably consider paying the tax. If your best player tears his ACL and the next two available players shrink in the playoffs without him, you probably don't. At least, I wouldn't either

[coldfish]

I'm ok with any direction the Bulls will take because I understand both sides.

I don't fancy this to the Ben Wallace situation because Tyson who just got paid the previous summer, came off his worst season because he got lazy. As much as I believe this team can contend every year as currently constructed, I don't think it's good enough to beat the Heat and as it stands, Derricks injury puts this current model in a world of hurt next season and beyond.

Simply put, this team was built to win now. If it can't win now, why keep it together as such?

Fair enough, but if the goal is to rebuild to win, wouldn't you want to try to make a trade that maximizes on court value? Pure capspace has value in the NBA and the Bulls would be paying for it in this case with talent with no intention of actually using that capspace.

There are many ways for the team to retool for 2013/14. Trading Deng and/or Noah for a pick is one of the worst ways to do it. This is about money and I'm going to call the team out on it.

As far as the Tyson thing, it is the same thing. I have no issue with the fact that they traded Tyson. My issue was that he could have brought back talent instead of an expiring contract that was not used. The trade wasn't about improving the team but avoiding tax. Same thing right now.

....

I really can't overstate this. I have no issue with the team trading players to improve. I also don't have an issue with them trying to avoid luxury tax. They also haven't actually done anything yet so screaming about it is premature.

If the Bulls manage to pull a rabbit out of their hat and manage to get a lot more than the 8 pick for Deng, I have no issue with it. I just see all the rumors floating around as bad on court moves both in the short term and the long term.

[DanTown8587]

Bulls get cap space
Bulls sign player everyone agrees is needed
Bulls trade/let productive player go
Signed player becomes face of disappointment with team
Bulls trade productive players to get cap space

[nomorezorro]

yeah i hated the tyson trade at the time because i thought they sold low on him and he was a better bet going forward than wallace was, but i didn't bristle at the actual return because i thought it was "tyson for [whoever they moved brown's expiring contract for]."

i've always thought that the "JERRY WON'T EVER PAY THE TAX!!" talk was overblown until, like, today. but letting brown expire on a team that badly needed improvement is a bad sign for how they plan to improve a team that's basically at the precipice of a championship; seems like management is content with a level of success somewhere around "perennial playoff team" as long as the price is right

[HomoSapien]

Just out of curiosity, how many of you would pay tax this offseason if it were your team?