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Deng to GS PG.13 / PG.43 Bulls Say Otherwise

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Re: ESPN: Deng Believes Bulls May Trade Him 

Post#181 » by imagge » Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:12 pm

Blue Note wrote:
imagge wrote:Deng will be out some time for wrist surgery and will need time to regain his game.
He should be able to ease back quickly. It's his left wrist.

Be honest with yourself, for the Bulls to beat the Heat as is, Rose will have to play pretty close to the MVP Rose.

Agree with this. Gives me pause. He has a history of meeting and surpassing expectations, so I'd bet on him being where he needs to be by then, but it's tough to say. Could be the big question they're asking themselves.



Love Rose but he is no super hero, ACL injuries have gotten the best of them. AP will be back for the Vikes but I doubt he is "AP" this season. CP3 is as tough as they get with a will the rivals all in the NBA but it took him 2 season to regain his form.
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Re: ESPN: Deng Believes Bulls May Trade Him 

Post#182 » by BULLHITTER » Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:13 pm

keep the bench mob, hope rose comes back, hope boozer feels more comfortable in year three with the team and takes a tiny step forward, hope deng comes back from surgery and takes a step forward from an injury-plagued year, hope rip gets more comfortable in year two with the team and remains relatively healthy. hope the team has clicked by april.


basically put, you're putting more stock in HOPE than in talent.

People that keep saying the Bulls can't beat the Heat as currently constructed are saying it as if it was a fact. It isn't a fact. Its an opinion. The problem is, we never had our second go around with the Heat this year. If we did, we would have had clearer answers.


it is a fact that the bulls haven't beaten the heat in the playoffs as they are currently constructed. our second go round didn't happen, because the team fell apart due to injury. that's not the heat's problem; it's the bulls. those actually are facts.

People can say all they want that the Bulls don't have a chance to beat Miami, and I can turn around and say that the Bulls would sweep Miami if we were healthy. Opinions shouldn't be viewed as fact - more importantly, decisions shouldn't be made unless you have all the actual facts.


yes you could, but the FACT IS the bulls weren't healthy; therefore rendering your opinion of a potential sweep of the heat rather moot.

People saying that Rose won't be back 100% next year or the year after - that isn't fact. We don't know when he'll be back 100%, last I hear, it could be January, no? If that's the case, wouldn't you want to take the chance to win a title rather than throw your arms up in the air and give up?


one can get a reasonable opinion based on medical facts regarding the healing process of like injuries; doesn't make it fact, just a more grounded opinion of what is likely to become fact.

Finally, its not like the Miami Heat are really heads and shoulders better than we are. My opinion is that in the last 20 years, they might be the worst NBA champion - I could make a good case for any of the last 20 champions to beat this years Heat. I certainly don't see them as being "dynasty" level good.


so what? they've won and the bulls shouldn't be scared. the onus is on the chicago franchise to come up; not to stand pat and wait for the perfect climate in which they can perform to their optimum level to win. you can't become a dynasty until you win the first championship. they've done that.

No need to fear them so irrationally that many have on this board. They're a good team, we're a good team. We can beat them next year if everyone is healthy, and that's an opportunity that we shouldn't give up so easily. Why take a step back when we're right at the door step?


how many seasons will "if everyone is healthy" should the bulls endure while their competition continues to improve as well? it's not like the heat is the only competition the bulls need to get past.
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Re: ESPN: Deng Believes Bulls May Trade Him 

Post#183 » by bullsnewdynasty » Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:13 pm

If Pax/Gar trade Deng for a rookie, they better be sure on the guy they pick. If the rookie busts, that would be a catastrophic mistake.
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Re: ESPN: Deng Believes Bulls May Trade Him 

Post#184 » by nomorezorro » Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:13 pm

DJhitek wrote:Do you really believe without Rose this team is the same?


i believe there to be a reasonable chance that rose is playing at an elite level by the playoffs 2013

this is probably the last post i'm gonna make on this matter, because i think i've more than made my point and don't want to get too redundant: i'm advocating keeping the roster in order for 2012-2013 because the bench is already under contract and there's a chance everything pans out. BUT, more importantly, because i think the core four players would be the core of a really good team for the next year. you can surround them with pieces - via the mle or trading taj or omer if necessary. you can get a good 8 person rotation that year and i think it can contend.

if it doesn't pan out? after that, deng's contract is up and boozer becomes an expiring. it shouldn't be hard to do a really fast retool if necessary -- let deng go, move boozer, bring over mirotic, sign a fa with cap space, move asik or taj for depth if you haven't already.

i don't think that's any riskier or more wasteful of rose's prime than moving deng/noah for picks this year, which is obviously a gamble and i think is the equivalent of throwing away at least one year in 2013-14.
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Re: ESPN: Deng Believes Bulls May Trade Him 

Post#185 » by Mech Engineer » Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:20 pm

I don't mind if they have to trade Deng but just not for one pick and a useless contract. I don't think they will do that anyways but it is simply ridiculous for the Bulls to do that. That said, GS seems to be the perfect partner for a Deng trade. They have a new owner who wants to spend and win. Their biggest problem is exactly what Deng is capable of solving(a SF who plays well without the ball, defends well, provides good offense when set-up, has been deep into the playoffs and is still relatively young).

If there is a time to win a trade by getting multiple assets like a lot of picks, this is the time. GS already feel like they are lucky that they didn't lose their 7th pick to Utah and that is like some extra asset they can afford to kind of throw away. The Bulls need to turn this into Eddy Curry kind of deal where they got two 1st round picks but also try to get a good player back for Deng.
It is all about how desperate GS is for Deng because the Bulls are not all that desparate to trade Deng unless it is a win situation.

And, it might be these assets(picks) are more helpful for a Dwight Howard deal than a Deng. It is easier to do a two-team trade than trying to involve GS for a Dwight Howard trade.
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Re: ESPN: Deng Believes Bulls May Trade Him 

Post#186 » by Chikes26x » Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:24 pm

I'm sorry but I can't support trading a 27 year old player who just came off his first all-star appearance for a pick that's out of the top 5. If this trade happens I will not be happy at all. People forget how good deng can be when he has 2 working wrists.
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Re: ESPN: Deng Believes Bulls May Trade Him 

Post#187 » by bullsnewdynasty » Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:26 pm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympi ... riors.html

Following his decision to play for Great Britain despite a wrist tendon injury, the Bulls General Manager Gar Forman, who called Deng in from holiday for a meeting earlier this month, is understood to have offered the Warriors Deng and the 29th pick in the NBA draft on Thursday for centre Andris Bierdrins, small forward Dorrell Wright and the seventh pick in the draft.


Not sure if this was posted yet or if it has legs.
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Re: ESPN: Deng Believes Bulls May Trade Him 

Post#188 » by BULLHITTER » Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:28 pm

People forget how good deng can be when he has 2 working wrists.


i'll admit when all of deng's body parts are working, he's a pretty good player. 8-)
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Re: ESPN: Deng Believes Bulls May Trade Him 

Post#189 » by thedarkstark » Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:30 pm

bullsnewdynasty wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/basketball/9352831/London-2012-Olympics-Luol-Deng-philosophical-about-proposed-move-to-Golden-State-Warriors.html

Following his decision to play for Great Britain despite a wrist tendon injury, the Bulls General Manager Gar Forman, who called Deng in from holiday for a meeting earlier this month, is understood to have offered the Warriors Deng and the 29th pick in the NBA draft on Thursday for centre Andris Bierdrins, small forward Dorrell Wright and the seventh pick in the draft.


Not sure if this was posted yet or if it has legs.


I don't think it's been posted by an official source, but I think Boogy or Ralph mentioned it about a week ago.
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Re: ESPN: Deng Believes Bulls May Trade Him 

Post#190 » by JDRochholz » Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:32 pm

Air Poohdini wrote:Don't trade Luol unless it's going to be for a top five pick.
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Re: ESPN: Deng Believes Bulls May Trade Him 

Post#191 » by nomorezorro » Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:33 pm

bullsnewdynasty wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/basketball/9352831/London-2012-Olympics-Luol-Deng-philosophical-about-proposed-move-to-Golden-State-Warriors.html

Following his decision to play for Great Britain despite a wrist tendon injury, the Bulls General Manager Gar Forman, who called Deng in from holiday for a meeting earlier this month, is understood to have offered the Warriors Deng and the 29th pick in the NBA draft on Thursday for centre Andris Bierdrins, small forward Dorrell Wright and the seventh pick in the draft.


Not sure if this was posted yet or if it has legs.


this wouldn't even be salary relief outside of a couple of million in 2013-14

not sure i trust a british outlet's basketball reporting
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Re: ESPN: Deng Believes Bulls May Trade Him 

Post#192 » by Darius Miles Davis » Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:34 pm

bullsnewdynasty wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/basketball/9352831/London-2012-Olympics-Luol-Deng-philosophical-about-proposed-move-to-Golden-State-Warriors.html

Following his decision to play for Great Britain despite a wrist tendon injury, the Bulls General Manager Gar Forman, who called Deng in from holiday for a meeting earlier this month, is understood to have offered the Warriors Deng and the 29th pick in the NBA draft on Thursday for centre Andris Bierdrins, small forward Dorrell Wright and the seventh pick in the draft.


Not sure if this was posted yet or if it has legs.


Dorell Wright is decent but he's no Deng. However, I do NOT like the idea of trading the #29 pick in this draft. I really trust GarPax to get a good player at that pick, especially this year. We'd have to get #30 back or at least #35. I want a late first/early second round pick in this draft.

So who is it that's worth trading at #7?
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Re: ESPN: Deng Believes Bulls May Trade Him 

Post#193 » by Coldchi » Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:48 pm

why on earth are we contemplating trading deng for a chance to get ben gordan *Beal" i like butler as much as the next guy but he is no Deng and no one in this draft out side of Davis has any real shot of being better then deng. so honestly this looks like the kinda move that bad teams make to get bad.
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Re: ESPN: Deng Believes Bulls May Trade Him 

Post#194 » by Ralphb07 » Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:49 pm

No way in hell Gar would offer Deng and 29th for 7th and Wright and on top of that add a contract like Bieds. I cal BS on that one. Also if the Bulls did offer that GS would of already taken that deal...
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Re: ESPN: Deng Believes Bulls May Trade Him 

Post#195 » by kyrv » Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:50 pm

Ralphb07 wrote:No way in hell Gar would offer Deng and 29th for 7th and Wright and on top of that add a contract like Bieds. I cal BS on that one. Also if the Bulls did offer that GS would of already taken that deal...


I agree. I think something was lost in the American to British translation.

That's an awful deal for the Bulls.
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Re: ESPN: Deng Believes Bulls May Trade Him 

Post#196 » by coldfish » Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:52 pm

HomoSapien wrote:
nomorezorro wrote:i mean i specifically said they should pay the luxury tax in 2012-13 and 2013-14 so they can find out if the team is a contender or not before repeat penalties kick in


You, yourself have admitted that it's extremely unlikely that everything fall into place next year. I think you'd agree that it's more unlikely than other years. If we brought everyone back, and the plan failed (which the odds suggest it would), then what's the consequence?

The consequence is simple. We'd have to retool a year later, during a healthy season of Rose's prime.


The crux of the issue is that the discussions regarding the team are not long term upgrades or re-tools. They are just flat out awful plans. I would do Deng for Evans and 5 of course, but the above stated rumor of Deng + 29 for Biendrins and 7 is awful for the Bulls and likely means Asik is gone.

If someone wants to come up with a good re-tool plan, let's hear it. I haven't seen one that isn't relying on blind luck. Quite frankly, the chances that Chicago wins a title next year are small but the chances that the player at 7 or 8 helps the Bulls in the long term is also rather small.

I might trade a bird in the hand for two in the bush, but I would never trade a bird in hand for a single one in the bush.

I liked nomorezero's analogy to stockholm syndrome. OK, if you want to retool, go ahead but don't just blindly trust that moves clearly aimed at dumping salary are somehow long term upgrades. Just do retool in a way that creates the best possible team in the near term not 4 years from now.
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Re: ESPN: Deng Believes Bulls May Trade Him 

Post#197 » by Chikes26x » Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:55 pm

BULLHITTER wrote:
People forget how good deng can be when he has 2 working wrists.


i'll admit when all of deng's body parts are working, he's a pretty good player. 8-)


8-)
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Re: ESPN: Deng Believes Bulls May Trade Him 

Post#198 » by boogydown » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:08 am

Ralphb07 wrote:No way in hell Gar would offer Deng and 29th for 7th and Wright and on top of that add a contract like Bieds. I cal BS on that one. Also if the Bulls did offer that GS would of already taken that deal...


+1
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Re: ESPN: Deng Believes Bulls May Trade Him 

Post#199 » by jcuuofd » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:11 am

bullsnewdynasty wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/basketball/9352831/London-2012-Olympics-Luol-Deng-philosophical-about-proposed-move-to-Golden-State-Warriors.html

Following his decision to play for Great Britain despite a wrist tendon injury, the Bulls General Manager Gar Forman, who called Deng in from holiday for a meeting earlier this month, is understood to have offered the Warriors Deng and the 29th pick in the NBA draft on Thursday for centre Andris Bierdrins, small forward Dorrell Wright and the seventh pick in the draft.


Not sure if this was posted yet or if it has legs.


This would actually be a really good trade for the Bulls. At #7 they could get Jeremy Lamb. With Biedrins they could let Asik go or sign and trade him for another player. Dorrell Wright is nothing special, but he is capable of starting for the Bulls in a season where there are no expectations to finish in the top 4 seeds in the east. The Bulls would be a much better scoring team going into 2013-2014.

Rose/?
Lamb/Rip
Wright/Butler
Boozer/Taj
Noah/Biedrins
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Re: ESPN:Deng Believes Bulls May Trade Him//Pg.13 Deng to GS 

Post#200 » by HomoSapien » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:11 am

If the Bulls do that trade, then it's clear they aren't as concerned about finances as we think. Instead it means that they really like someone at 7 and think that Wright isn't a huge downgrade from Deng.
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