Trading the #2 pick - dicussion (merged)

doc.end · Post #621 » by **doc.end** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:56 am

As for Cleveland I can see how 2 + Tyrus for 4 + 33 would be realistic. I would probably stay beingg in their shoes but if they really want Beal... If we could press for more, than good. Cavs are below the cap to easiyl absorb Thomas.

As for Washington, they have abundance of big men now. I would likee getting Seraphin back. And if plausible even Veselý (partially homer wishful thinking) to get more height. All around 2 for 3. We may send them Carroll to maka salaries work (didn't check anything). I can't see them letting Seraphin go, but they do dumb things sometimes. I can't see them accpeting Tyrus Thomas's contract so quality in players should be significant to justify moving down (I don't think a second rounder helps in that). Would love to get Mack back to replace Higgins at PG as well. No to Singleton (the SF).

bobcats3wallace · Post #622 » by **bobcats3wallace** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:46 pm

Like I keep saying, the first 5 or so second round picks are valuable in this draft. What would normally be first round talent, because of the depth of this draft, will fall into the beginning of the second round. If we trade back one spot with Washington because they don't want us to trade with Cleveland so they can get Beal, then we suddenly we have 31 and 32. Those are two valuable picks. I would guess that you could easily trade both of those for a 20's first, especially from teams over the cap. Or, you could keep both and still get some solid bench depth going forward.

This doesn't relate to the Bobcats, but interesting news of the Rockets possibly trying to acquire #5 and #8 from Sactown and Toronto and then trying to flip both for Howard. That could really shake things up if it happens.

dre4bobcats · Post #623 » by **dre4bobcats** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:59 pm

bobcats3wallace wrote:Like I keep saying, the first 5 or so second round picks are valuable in this draft. What would normally be first round talent, because of the depth of this draft, will fall into the beginning of the second round. If we trade back one spot with Washington because they don't want us to trade with Cleveland so they can get Beal, then we suddenly we have 31 and 32. Those are two valuable picks. I would guess that you could easily trade both of those for a 20's first, especially from teams over the cap. Or, you could keep both and still get some solid bench depth going forward.

This doesn't relate to the Bobcats, but interesting news of the Rockets possibly trying to acquire #5 and #8 from Sactown and Toronto and then trying to flip both for Howard. That could really shake things up if it happens.

if you are the bobcats would you rather have 4, 24, 31 or 3, 31, 32? cleveland has the better offer..

As for the rockets, I cant see houston trying to gut out their roster plus all of those picks for a 1 year howard rental (assuming he doesnt stay with them once traded)

Bassman · Post #624 » by **Bassman** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:05 pm

I like the approach on your suggestion, but the Bulls would not do that deal. They want a lottery pick for Deng.

dre4bobcats · Post #625 » by **dre4bobcats** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:13 pm

JMAC3 wrote:Would you guys consider this deal.

First lets assume Bobcats draft Beal at #2.
Then we deal Henderson, Maggette, and remove the protection on our pick we owe bulls.
The bulls send us Deng and 29th pick.

.

Kemba
Beal
Deng
Biz
Portland 2013 pick

Chicago wouldnt give up the 29 to do that.

Portland's 2013 pick cant be in our starting five for this year lol. That lets you know how bad our bobcats are doing. when we add next years pick to the starting 5.

ohara · Post #626 » by **ohara** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:48 pm

http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-am-do-the ... -for-the-2

So Kyler is saying we have a standing offer of #4 and #24 for #2. If that is the worse deal, then I'm OK with it. If we get anything getter, then awesome.

vorbis · Post #627 » by **vorbis** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:57 pm

agreed. this will be a good test of how nimble of mind the bobcats decision makers are. at some point they're going to have to make a call. the bobcats have had deals fall apart several times in the past, but that was before the cho era.

Bassman · Post #628 » by **Bassman** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:06 pm

We know that Cho is very thorough, deliberate, in his process. There is no rush per se, but I suppose another scenario could always enter the picture for Cleveland (trading picks for a young veteran). My hope is they get one extra 2nd round pick out of it, make the deal, then work on moving the 24 & 31 to get a mid-yound selection.

Jaruff · Post #629 » by **Jaruff** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:59 pm

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/0 ... -polk.html

And the RealGM summary:

Curtis Polk said the Bobcats could use their estimated $21 million in cap space to facilitate a trade between two other teams.

“If we don’t land the big fish – there’s not a lot of movement and we’re not a big glamour market right now – then we need to use this in a lot of different ways,” said Polk. “It’s not just (the resources) to accumulate star free agents, but to put pieces in place that Mike (new coach Mike Dunlap) is going to need.”

Polk said the Bobcats also are considering adding a veteran player.

“A really classy guy who could also be a good teacher and mentor,” Polk described. “And he comes here for two years at $5 million a year. And then we get the (cap) room back after that.”

Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/22 ... z1yoiwkvZi

I'm thinking veteran player = Jamison. Classy guy, wants to be here, makes sense.

In the summer of 2010 – the great LeBron James free-agent class – the Bulls were offering a first-round pick to any team willing to absorb guard Kirk Hinrich’s remaining contract. The Bobcats wanted both that pick and what Hinrich could still contribute.

“Hinrich was still a hell of a player at the time. We were dying,” Polk recalled. “We wanted a guy like Hinrich because we weren’t re-signing Raymond Felton, and we couldn’t do it because we had no flexibility.”

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/0 ... rylink=cpy

Damn, so that's why we didn't do that.

Grab #23 and #43 for taking on Marvin Williams?

BeesWax · Post #630 » by **BeesWax** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:11 pm

Could we take on Marions last two years for the #17?

countryboi · Post #631 » by **countryboi** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:13 pm

In the summer of 2010 – the great LeBron James free-agent class – the Bulls were offering a first-round pick to any team willing to absorb guard Kirk Hinrich’s remaining contract. The Bobcats wanted both that pick and what Hinrich could still contribute.

“Hinrich was still a hell of a player at the time. We were dying,” Polk recalled. “We wanted a guy like Hinrich because we weren’t re-signing Raymond Felton, and we couldn’t do it because we had no flexibility.”

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/0 ... rylink=cpy

wow that hurts...

Jaruff · Post #632 » by **Jaruff** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:41 pm

jdm3 wrote:Could we take on Marions last two years for the #17?

Wouldn't make any sense for us. We could probably buy a pick a few slots lower for $3m or so. I only mentioned Marvin because I think he still has the potential to be a decent player. Just needs a change of scenery.

However, Hinrich would have helped us transition and perhaps stay a playoff team.

SWedd523 · Post #633 » by **SWedd523** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:16 pm

I would really consider trading the 2 for Horford and whatever filler was necessary. He has the skills and toughness to really mesh well with Bismack. He can even play PF like he's always wanted to.

Definitely not if Bismack is included

Bassman · Post #634 » by **Bassman** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:19 pm

Per rumor on Hoopsworld the Cats want Barnes but not at 2. While I would not have big issues with taking him at 4, I would be concerned if we took him ahead of Robinson (if Thor is still available after trading back there).

I would really be shocked if we remain at 2. So much chatter out there...

Jaruff · Post #635 » by **Jaruff** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:26 pm

SWedd523 wrote:I would really consider trading the 2 for Horford and whatever filler was necessary. He has the skills and toughness to really mesh well with Bismack. He can even play PF like he's always wanted to.

Definitely not if Bismack is included

I dunno about Horford. He's already 27 and I mean, he's good, but I'm just not feeling it.

If you had me pick between Horford and Smith, I'd take Smith. No question about it.

countryboi · Post #636 » by **countryboi** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:46 pm

Bassman wrote:Per rumor on Hoopsworld the Cats want Barnes but not at 2. While I would not have big issues with taking him at 4, I would be concerned if we took him ahead of Robinson (if Thor is still available after trading back there).

I would really be shocked if we remain at 2. So much chatter out there...

if we move back to 4 i would be worried the wiz would take barnes just to piss us off and he fits a need for shooters.....but robinson wouldnt be a bad consolation prize

SWedd523 · Post #637 » by **SWedd523** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:50 pm

Jaruff wrote:
SWedd523 wrote:I would really consider trading the 2 for Horford and whatever filler was necessary. He has the skills and toughness to really mesh well with Bismack. He can even play PF like he's always wanted to.

Definitely not if Bismack is included

I dunno about Horford. He's already 27 and I mean, he's good, but I'm just not feeling it.

If you had me pick between Horford and Smith, I'd take Smith. No question about it.

He's 26.
which is younger than Smith
and he's better than Smith
and he's not going to be an expiring deal next year with the risk of losing him to FA

HornetJail · Post #638 » by **HornetJail** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:45 pm

With every passing day, I'm really starting to want to trade our pick for multiple picks again.

Would Houston accept #2, Reggie, and Diop for Lowry, (any of Budinger, Patterson, Morris, or Parsons), #14, and #16?

Lowry is as good as gone, and Houston wants to trade up into the top 10. Basically trading Robinson and trash for two mid-round 1sts and Kyle Lowry. This is an absolute win for us, and Houston accomplishes their goals as well.

Trade Walker, Diop, whoever Houston gives us, and Maggette for Deng, Korver, and our pick back. They basically trade Deng for a lotto pick (well, a lottery pick from last year) that can fill in for Rose in his absence, and they get a lot of cap space in $18M worth of expiring deals, which could be used by Chicago in an effort to trade for a star (Rudy Gay?).

Biyombo/Mullens
Moultrie (#14 if he drops this far)/Thomas
Deng/Harkless (#16 - Dunlap gets his man)/Brown (re-signed)
Hendo/Doron Lamb (#31)/Korver
Lowry/Augustin (re-signed)

Good core for the future, plus we have our future 1st back from Chicago and Portland's 2013 1st as well. Fair?

doc.end · Post #639 » by **doc.end** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:30 pm

If I am Wizards and someone takes Beal at 2, I am picking Barnes for sure. With what Wizards currently have it is best available fit. Good head on shoulders too, that matters for them lately.

I kind of expect us taking Beal at 2 and then see who is available at 4 and then pull the trigger or not. If 4 + 24 is floor of what we get for 2, that's pretty good.

James Gatz · Post #640 » by **James Gatz** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:30 pm

Trade Walker, Diop, whoever Houston gives us, and Maggette for Deng, Korver, and our pick back.

No way the bulls every do that trade.

It seems to me that in all likely hood we trade 2 for 4 and 24. Considering that which players would you rather pick up?

Option 1:
Robinson
Q.Miller

Option 2:
Robinson
Harkless (We trade 24 +31 to pick him up)

Option 3:
Barnes
Moultrie (24 + 31 again)

Option 4:
Barnes
Andrew Nicholson

Personally I would prefer either 1 or 3 but all in all I'd be happy with any of them.

Trade pick for players, trade for picks or keep it?