Deng to GS PG.13 / PG.43 Bulls Say Otherwise

[ryannik09]

Duke’s Austin Rivers seems to be one of the players on a meteoric rise, possibly as high as #6 to Portland.

Wonder if Rivers is the target at #7

Rivers better not be the target, at 7 I want Barnes and if he is gone give my Jeremy Lamb. Rivers will be a bust. I love Lambs upside and his ability to be a 2 way player with his length, the only weakness in his game is lack of strength and that can be easily corrected with some time in the weight room.

[DanTown8587]

You are making assumptions. Did the Bulls feel that Gordon was better than Deng? Or did they feel they feel Gordon would be gone by 7, while Deng would still be there? Same for Johnson/Taj.

Teams with 2 picks do that type of thing all the time. You read the market on a guy and draft him accordingly, it's why teams trade back. Why "reach" on a guy you know you can get later?

And for the record, Paxson really has only had 1 bad pick (Tyrus) and it's the one time he didn't listen his gut, and went with high upside / poor character.

Even guys like JJ and Thabo who didn't pan out here, are having pretty good careers elsewhere. Even his 2nd round picks have been great with the exception of JamesOn Curry and Tommy Smith.

The argument that Paxson will draft the BEST player is the question, not whether or not said player is SERVICABLE. The Bulls have avoided drafting many busts, but they've also only drafted two All-Stars in Paxson's regime and one of them was the #1 overall pick acquired via chance.

The overwhelming evidence is that the Bulls would draft a good but not great player at #7. Someone who still wouldn't be a difference maker at the end of games.

[Ralphb07]

A couple things here....

Are people not breaking the deal down? Is there too many pieces involved for people to process this? The reason I ask is I've seen the same people who've said do Calderon and 8th or Garcia and 5th for Deng but now saying this deal is horrible. When you break this deal down it's Harris and 7th for Deng.

The other part to the deal is Wright, 35 and 52 for a protected 1st next year and our 29. Is Wright not good enough to you guys? You have to give to get. You can break this down other ways too like Harris, #7 and 35 for Deng and Wright and 52 for 29 and future 1st.

Also for all the let's take the Kings deal, FYI Taj Gibson and maybe even the Bobcats pick needs to go in the deal and that's taking Salmons from the Kings stance. How does that deal look now?

You have to give to get and people. From all the stuff I've heard this is actually not a bad deal at all.

[molepharmer]

I don't get why this proposed Golden State/Utah trade is such a horrible deal, assuming the 2013 pick has decent protection on it in case everything falls apart.

Think about it:

(1) Devin Harris fills in for Rose for a year. A huge downgrade, but at least Devin Harris is a legit, if mediocre, starting PG in the league.

(2) Dorrell Wright is a fine rotation SF.

(3) Combined, both make less money than Deng.

(4) Both of them expire at the same time as Deng.

(5) One or both could potentially be traded as a pure salary dump after (or during) next season.

It's not an idea move because neither salary expires after this upcoming season (both guys have 2 years left on their deals). And it's certainly not a great trade, because we should be able to get both cap relief and a mid-lotto pick for Deng.

But if the Bulls are looking for a way to not suck next season....

Cliff Levingston doesn't mind it, but if next year's first was somehow not involved, that would be better. Without Rose and Deng, we can't count on being at the top of the standings again.

If the Bulls are convinced that they need a second big-time scorer alongside Rose then, obviously outside of Boozer, there's no better player on the roster right now to trade than Deng. He'll miss the beginning of the season, his value has never been higher and he's slated to make a sh*t ton of money the next two seasons before being up for extension at the age of 29. If we can get Jeremy Lamb and he ends up being James Harden-esque in terms of his ability (minus the finals hopefully) then that would be a homerun of a deal. Pretty big if but we do know how Reinsdorf is about paying the tax.

My take on it as well. Whether you like the deal or not more or less revolves around what you think the Bulls should or will do with Deng when he comes up for re-negotiations. If the F.O. doesn't expect they will be able to re-sign him at a friendly deal, they need to look to move him. With this deal they get 2 expirings after this year, a PG to fill in while Rose is out, a competitive team for '12-13 and a possible good lottery pick. The firsts they give up are late rounders anyway and they're suppose to get back one or two 2nd rounders.

Next year, they'll have these expirings along with Rip and more options with regards to Taj/Boozer/ free agency.

You're always going to want a better deal, whether the Bulls can get one or not, we don't know and may never know.

[ryannik09]

A couple things here....

Are people not breaking the deal down? Is there too many pieces involved for people to process this? The reason I ask is I've seen the same people who've said do Calderon and 8th or Garcia and 5th for Deng but now saying this deal is horrible. When you break this deal down it's Harris and 7th for Deng.

The other part to the deal is Wright, 35 and 52 for a protected 1st next year and our 29. Is Wright not good enough to you guys? You have to give to get. You can break this down other ways too like Harris, #7 and 35 for Deng and Wright and 52 for 29 and future 1st.

Also for all the let's take the Kings deal, FYI Taj Gibson and maybe even the Bobcats pick needs to go in the deal and that's taking Salmons from the Kings stance. How does that deal look now?

You have to give to get and people. From all the stuff I've heard this is actually not a bad deal at all.

I like the deal, I just dont like the idea of giving up our first next year. Everything else sounds good, this trade also allows the Bulls to be players in free agency next summer if they choose to amnesty Boozer.

[DanTown8587]

A couple things here....

Are people not breaking the deal down? Is there too many pieces involved for people to process this? The reason I ask is I've seen the same people who've said do Calderon and 8th or Garcia and 5th for Deng but now saying this deal is horrible. When you break this deal down it's Harris and 7th for Deng.

The other part to the deal is Wright, 35 and 52 for a protected 1st next year and our 29. Is Wright not good enough to you guys? You have to give to get. You can break this down other ways too like Harris, #7 and 35 for Deng and Wright and 52 for 29 and future 1st.

Also for all the let's take the Kings deal, FYI Taj Gibson and maybe even the Bobcats pick needs to go in the deal and that's taking Salmons from the Kings stance. How does that deal look now?

You have to give to get and people. From all the stuff I've heard this is actually not a bad deal at all.

It's the second part that's bad (trading two firsts for Dorell Wright and some #2). Let's say the Bulls are about .500 next year. You're giving up a mid teens pick for Dorrell Wright? Come on, it's bad.

Reasons why #5/Salmons is better: I feel at #5 you're available to get one of Robinson, Beal, Barnes or Gilchrist.

Reasons why #8/Calderon is better: You get a more serviceable PG in Calderon, still likely get the same guy at #8 that #7 would give you and you're going to not give up numerous firsts for a replacement level SF.

[Tommy Udo 6]

And for the record, Paxson really has only had 1 bad pick (Tyrus) and it's the one time he didn't listen his gut, and went with high upside / poor character.

Even guys like JJ and Thabo who didn't pan out here, are having pretty good careers elsewhere. Even his 2nd round picks have been great with the exception of JamesOn Curry and Tommy Smith.

I agree that Pax has had one really bad pick (Tyrus) and a couple others who just didnt work out (JJ, Thabo). All 3 of them were traded for draft picks.

When Paxson first got the job, he had to rely on his college scouts who told him to draft Mario Austen & Tommie Smith. Austen never made it to NBA & is playing overseas. Smith made the team but was soon cut.

Paxson usually does not use his second rounders. He traded 3 of them to get Asik. He traded others to bribe teams (2 to Milw for taking Salmons) or as part of a package trade (included in the trade to move up to spot 23 & get Mirotic)

[PMONSTER]

A couple things here....

Are people not breaking the deal down? Is there too many pieces involved for people to process this? The reason I ask is I've seen the same people who've said do Calderon and 8th or Garcia and 5th for Deng but now saying this deal is horrible. When you break this deal down it's Harris and 7th for Deng.

The other part to the deal is Wright, 35 and 52 for a protected 1st next year and our 29. Is Wright not good enough to you guys? You have to give to get. You can break this down other ways too like Harris, #7 and 35 for Deng and Wright and 52 for 29 and future 1st.

Also for all the let's take the Kings deal, FYI Taj Gibson and maybe even the Bobcats pick needs to go in the deal and that's taking Salmons from the Kings stance. How does that deal look now?

You have to give to get and people. From all the stuff I've heard this is actually not a bad deal at all.

I'll go a step further.......

When you turn your head to all the dumb deals we have seen, including that Gerald Wallce deal that the Nets did, then how can you not say this is a good deal?

We get a stop gap pg in Devin Harris and a legit sf in Wright while getting the #7 pick and people aren't happy?

Yall want to trade Deng for Lebron or Durant? Is that what we holding out for?

[MGB8]

If I misread that, and you are right, then it's a pretty good deal and the Bulls should jump on it (assuming significant proteciton of the future pick and the guy that they like is available at 7).

It's Deng, a late first, and a protected first for the #7 overall and two expiring players who will help while here (not just a waste of space). Or, like Ralph said in "breaking it down," it's:

(1) Deng for the #7 and and no lasting salary past next season, and
(2) The 29 and a future protected first for one year rentals of Devin Harris and Dorrell Wright, after having lost Rose to injury and moved Deng for the #7.

That's not a huge steal for the Bulls, but it's not an awful trade in the least. It's a good trade.

I don't get why this proposed Golden State/Utah trade is such a horrible deal, assuming the 2013 pick has decent protection on it in case everything falls apart.

Think about it:

(1) Devin Harris fills in for Rose for a year. A huge downgrade, but at least Devin Harris is a legit, if mediocre, starting PG in the league.

(2) Dorrell Wright is a fine rotation SF.

(3) Combined, both make less money than Deng.

(4) Both of them expire at the same time as Deng.

(5) One or both could potentially be traded as a pure salary dump after (or during) next season.

It's not an idea move because neither salary expires after this upcoming season (both guys have 2 years left on their deals). And it's certainly not a great trade, because we should be able to get both cap relief and a mid-lotto pick for Deng.

But if the Bulls are looking for a way to not suck next season....

Even better they both expire a year before Deng. They both would be expiring contracts this coming season

[bad knees]

The trade with GSW and Utah would be horrible for the Bulls. Putting aside the one year rentals, it essentially is Deng and our pick next year for the 7th pick this year. Deng is an All-Star and second team all-NBA Defense, who is in the prime of his career. In the last 20 years, there have been exactly two 7th picks to become all stars. And both of them currently are on the Bulls - Rip and Luol. And neither of them made the all star team until they were in the league for 6-7 years. If the Bulls make this trade, they will be eliminating whatever chance they have at the title for 3-4 years at the least, based on a super-small chance of hitting the jackpot with a pick that might help win a championship 5 years from now.

What makes this especially maddening is that the problem is Boozer, not Deng. You can win a championship with Deng at the 3, at his current salary (which will go down with his next contract). But you cannot do so with Boozer at the 4, making $15 million per year. The solution is to amnesty or trade Boozer for scraps and start over there. But amnesty is too expensive for management, and trading for scraps would be an admission that management screwed up - which I believe GarPax would hate even more than Reinsdorf would hate amnesty.

[jumpmanjay]

i like this deal...i just wish the 2013 FA class (when harris and wright expire) was a little better.

it would hurt to lose luol, but if garpax are confident they can nab a true #2, then i am all for it. would still be interesting if we could flip the #7 and our charlotte pick for #2 this year...

[Shill]

A couple things here....

Are people not breaking the deal down? Is there too many pieces involved for people to process this? The reason I ask is I've seen the same people who've said do Calderon and 8th or Garcia and 5th for Deng but now saying this deal is horrible. When you break this deal down it's Harris and 7th for Deng.

The other part to the deal is Wright, 35 and 52 for a protected 1st next year and our 29. Is Wright not good enough to you guys? You have to give to get. You can break this down other ways too like Harris, #7 and 35 for Deng and Wright and 52 for 29 and future 1st.

Also for all the let's take the Kings deal, FYI Taj Gibson and maybe even the Bobcats pick needs to go in the deal and that's taking Salmons from the Kings stance. How does that deal look now?

You have to give to get and people. From all the stuff I've heard this is actually not a bad deal at all.

So does this deal happen if Chicago's guy is on the board at #7?

[dice]

Awful trade for Chicago. Just mind numbingly bad. Harris and others expire after this year. In the long term, you are basically trading Deng and two draft picks for the #7 pick. The capspace won't even have much value because the team won't be able to offer a max contract.

capspace doesn't have to be used on max contracts...the fact that harris and wright are expirings just gives us more flexibility. it might be the biggest benefit of the deal

there's not a team in the league that isn't gonna be trying to at least avoid the lux tax repeater thing. the penalties are just too high. you might as well get used to that concept. and, short of amnestying boozer, trading deng is the best way to accomplish that for the bulls

[AAU Teammate]

Deng is my favorite player. But organizational health is more important right now, so I can't say no to this outright.

An organization-first deal is important immediately if all signs point to next year being a non-contending year. If there's a chance to contend next year, I'm less excited about this deal.

Maybe my main issue is this -- we get financial flexibility, but not tons of it. We get people that can play, but on 1 year deals. We get a rookie contract, but at a slot that makes "our guy" probably tough to get, whoever it is.

It all depends on that rookie, but even then, we're getting assets or benefits that are good/not great. I know it sounds nuts but I feel like in the pantheon of Luol rumors, there used to be more exciting stuff on the table, no? Granted we were willing to package more, but this guy has been having his name tossed around for KG/Gasol/Kobe...and that was before he was an all-star. So naturally we probably are kind of gunshy due to that, be it fair or not.

I will say this......if we can hold onto Taj and Asik, bring over Mirotic....all as a result of this type of deal? I have to say yes. Bigs are important, SFs are attainable.

[jumpmanjay]

Yall want to trade Deng for Lebron or Durant? Is that what we holding out for?

sounds about right.

[thedarkstark]

You are making assumptions. Did the Bulls feel that Gordon was better than Deng? Or did they feel they feel Gordon would be gone by 7, while Deng would still be there? Same for Johnson/Taj.

Teams with 2 picks do that type of thing all the time. You read the market on a guy and draft him accordingly, it's why teams trade back. Why "reach" on a guy you know you can get later?

And for the record, Paxson really has only had 1 bad pick (Tyrus) and it's the one time he didn't listen his gut, and went with high upside / poor character.

Even guys like JJ and Thabo who didn't pan out here, are having pretty good careers elsewhere. Even his 2nd round picks have been great with the exception of JamesOn Curry and Tommy Smith.

The argument that Paxson will draft the BEST player is the question, not whether or not said player is SERVICABLE. The Bulls have avoided drafting many busts, but they've also only drafted two All-Stars in Paxson's regime and one of them was the #1 overall pick acquired via chance.

The overwhelming evidence is that the Bulls would draft a good but not great player at #7. Someone who still wouldn't be a difference maker at the end of games.

Considering where Paxson drafts every year, he's done one hell of a job. It's been 16+ for all but a handful of picks, he's had 3 top 3 picks 1 is a superstar, one is a bust, and one was a 6th man of the year / borderline all-star before injuries. It's incredibly hard to find superstars, or even all stars outside of the top 10.

[DanTown8587]

Can someone explain to me why you're trading numerous first round picks (regardless of location) to get Dorrell Wright now? Dorrell Wright is a seven year pro who besides a few years in the Golden State system, has been drastically average and about the definition of replacement level. I don't get it. I get people are lured by Devin Harris the name, but you do realize that Harris the last few years has been about Kirk Hinrich in 2008 level and that he isn't the same guy who played in the 2009 All-Star game?

If it was Harris, Wright and the #7 for Deng and #29, I could live with that. I just don't like giving up future firsts for role players.

[Madison]

I love the proposed 3-way deal:

1. Devin Harris is an excellent stopgap PG until Rose gets back and is on a short contract. Maybe the Bulls would even want to re-sign him. Is Harris a star? No, but he's a good player, definitely starter level. Remember at one point people thought he was going to be an all-star.

2. If the Bulls truly feel they can get a #2 scorer with the 7th pick, then why not do the deal? I love what Deng brings to the table. The guy is a true professional in every sense of the word. But he's not a second scoring option. Drafting a legit #2 option to pair with Rose for the long-term is a good thing. Plus, the draft pick will have a year to develop during a season that doesn't mean much. By the time Rose is 100% in 2013-2014, the pick should be much improved as a player.

3. I actually love Dorrell Wright. He has true SF size and can hit the 3. Is he a star? No. He's also not nearly as good defensively as Deng, but if you assume that the #7 pick is a second scorer and that Boozer is your third scorer, what else do you really need from the SF position? We'd still have Jimmy Butler to help out defensively (and maybe even compete for the starting SF position eventually with Wright).

[DuckIII]

We get a stop gap pg in Devin Harris and a legit sf in Wright while getting the #7 pick and people aren't happy?

Correct.

Yall want to trade Deng for Lebron or Durant? Is that what we holding out for?

It doesn't have to be so extreme. I want to trade Deng to improve the team. Trading Deng (plust TWO first round picks) for two, inferior, role players and a middling lottery pick that is highly unlikely to ever be as good as Luol Deng doesn't do that.

In fact, if I read "sell high" and the #7 pick in the same sentence again, I'm likely to have a seizure.

I'm with PistolP. If the Bulls are going to trade Deng, I expect to see something bigger that is a more likely upgrade. A higher draft pick. A package of Deng and Taj for proven offensive NBA talent, etc.

This is a salary dump and an inferior quality draft pick for Deng. Its awful.

P.S. The Toronto deal sucks balls too.

[P.C.]

Duke’s Austin Rivers seems to be one of the players on a meteoric rise, possibly as high as #6 to Portland.

Wonder if Rivers is the target at #7

Ha. Funny I put the idea about rivers at 7 together last night, and sure enough their are rumors the next day.

This is what I see as happening: The Bobcats are trying to force the Bulls to move up to 2. And Portland is trying to force the Bulls to move up to 6. Hence, the Bobcats release the rumors about their interest in Barnes and Portland releases rumors about their interest in Rivers. Rivers is really the only player that makes sense to the Bulls if Barnes and Beal are off the board in my opinion. I think the consensus would be that the Bulls would go to Rivers if Barnes, Beal and MKG are off the table. I personally don't want any part of MKG.