Do you think Wilt's 31.84 PER record is unbreakable?

ecnirp · Post #21 » by **ecnirp** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:57 am

If LeBron's post moves continue to improve and he develops a reliable jump shot. Then yes. A lot of IFs though.

GetItDone · Post #22 » by **GetItDone** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:05 am

Done in the 60s.

/thread

Dipper 13 · Post #23 » by **Dipper 13** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:17 am

If I'm not mistaken, the above stats suggest a 4.1 assist to turnover ratio for Wilt. This level of efficient playmking and ball control is on par with the top PG's of today. Only Chris Paul & Jose Calderon rank (slightly) higher.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/playe ... int-guards

parapooper · Post #24 » by **parapooper** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:32 am

As I already posted, LeBron had a PER of 32.6 for the entire 2009 season (RS + PS), which is way harder than a 31.84 PER in just the RS.

So the real question should be if LeBron's record is breakable.
Because even if someone matches Wilt's PER of 31.84 in the regular season they would then have to put up a PER of 35 over a 20 game postseason (or 38+ over a 10 game postseason, ...) to match LeBron 09.

Kobe 62 Mavs 61 · Post #25 » by **Kobe 62 Mavs 61** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:01 am

Doctor MJ wrote:
ardee wrote:It was his 1963 season. The closest in recent times was LeBron's 31.67 in 2009. Do you think that LeBron or Durant could approach this mark again for an entire season .T here's probably no one else who could even think about it. Unless Anthony Davis turns out to be KG on steroids (KG managed 29.4 in his '04 season. Combination of his rebounding, passing and good steals/blocks nos.)

Weird question. If LeBron can get within 0.17 of the record, it's quite clearly breakable.

Exactly.

Also, I dunno if it's been posted, but to the guy that said blocks and such weren't recorded back then, nor were turnovers. Not saying it would've brought it down more than the other stuff would've raised it, but a big man that plays 47 minutes a game would've had more of those than what we're used to seeing.

TheKingOfVa360 · Post #26 » by **TheKingOfVa360** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:43 pm

Kobe 62 Mavs 61 wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
ardee wrote:It was his 1963 season. The closest in recent times was LeBron's 31.67 in 2009. Do you think that LeBron or Durant could approach this mark again for an entire season .T here's probably no one else who could even think about it. Unless Anthony Davis turns out to be KG on steroids (KG managed 29.4 in his '04 season. Combination of his rebounding, passing and good steals/blocks nos.)

Weird question. If LeBron can get within 0.17 of the record, it's quite clearly breakable.

Exactly.

Also, I dunno if it's been posted, but to the guy that said blocks and such weren't recorded back then, nor were turnovers. Not saying it would've brought it down more than the other stuff would've raised it, but a big man that plays 47 minutes a game would've had more of those than what we're used to seeing.

Even if he averaged 4 to's a game his per would sky rocket after you added in blocks, steals, and offensive rebounds

MacGill · Post #27 » by **MacGill** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:06 pm

Dipper 13 wrote:If I'm not mistaken, the above stats suggest a 4.1 assist to turnover ratio for Wilt. This level of efficient playmking and ball control is on par with the top PG's of today. Only Chris Paul & Jose Calderon rank (slightly) higher.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/playe ... int-guards

Dipper13, I enjoy the articles you share here but I have a few points here.

1) In all the video i have watched of Wilt what I saw was the ability to make the safe pass with tendancies to also showcase his talent as a passer. This is one of the points that fans of my Raptors have with Jose. It's to simple to predict hence the empty assist. again much video of what I watched was give the ball to Wilt and he made the obvious/simple pass which converted into a bucket. I do not want to detract from what he did but the overall game was much more simplistic in those days when it came to overall defensive strategies.

We watched KG, a fantastic passer, forced to turnover the ball because of how much more effective the double team now is.

2) In no way could you compare what Wilt did to any PG. Unless he is bringing up the ball on every possession etc. Getting the ball passed to you and you making the pass is much different then bringing the ball up the court while needing the court vision to control the ball + see what was available. Wilt was not this guy.

Dipper 13 · Post #28 » by **Dipper 13** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:25 am

^^ Where he got in trouble with those passes was when he held the ball up high in one hand & attempted to hit a cutter down the middle in heavy traffic, where it was much easier to deflect than his scoop handoffs. My only point was to try & understand where this inexplicable "turnover machine" label came from. And now it seems you have labeled him as an empty assist guy, despite leading the best offensive team in the league.

EGarrett · Post #29 » by **EGarrett** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:17 pm

TheKingOfVa360 wrote:Wilts Per was actually higher than that but we don't have offensive rebounds, block and steals stats to include it.

No one else's blocks, steals, or offensive rebounds were counted either, and other negative stats weren't counted. PER is all about how you compare to everyone else in whatever stats were collected. It could have been equal or even worse to his recorded PER.

MacGill · Post #30 » by **MacGill** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:25 pm

Dipper 13 wrote:^^ Where he got in trouble with those passes was when he held the ball up high in one hand & attempted to hit a cutter down the middle in heavy traffic, where it was much easier to deflect than his scoop handoffs. My only point was to try & understand where this inexplicable "turnover machine" label came from. And now it seems you have labeled him as an empty assist guy, despite leading the best offensive team in the league.

Not at all, but when you are making assist to turnover comparsions about Wilt compared to actual PG's you have to take the crunchy with the smooth. Wilt never went a full season being the actual PG of his team. And well, you choose to use Jose as an example trying to prop up Wilt's feat.

There are obvious glaring advantages/disadvantages to this strategy but my point was to keep it in context here. Let's not act like Wilt was running the fast break a'la Magic or that he could cross you over like CP3. Again, I do not want to detract from what he did and I am not saying he was a turnover machine. I am saying from what I watched it was a much more simple offence as you would expect if a 7'1 giant was running the offence through him.

28reloaded · Post #31 » by **28reloaded** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:47 pm

When you consider the fact that if ORB & BLKs were recorded, Wilt's would probably be in the 34-35 range. So no, it will never be broken

kasino · Post #32 » by **kasino** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:15 pm

is this the best season ever?

Dipper 13 · Post #33 » by **Dipper 13** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:53 am

I am saying from what I watched it was a much more simple offence as you would expect if a 7'1 giant was running the offence through him.

My apologies for the confusion. Based on my viewing of the game footage of the 1964 Warriors Celtics NBA Finals matchup (Gm. 4), we can see a few statistics below.

-16 Halfcourt Touches for Wilt

-1 assist for Wilt

-1* turnover for Wilt (which came from what was clearly an incorrect traveling call, even by the textbook 60's standards)

-52 offensive possessions for team

Keep in mind this is against the '64 Celtics, arguably the top defensive team ever, from KC Jones on down to their MVP Big Bill Russell. They featured aggressive full court pressing and swarmed Wilt in the half court denying him the ball.

It seems that not only is this malicious claim of Wilt being a turnover machine completely baseless, but also that the more Wilt had the ball in his hands in the half court, the better the team offense was (by far). He was someone who played in the wrong era, well ahead of his time.