Deng to GS PG.13 / PG.43 Bulls Say Otherwise

[blumeany]

It seems the like Trade Deng camp flippantly brings up how he doesnt shut down Lebron. I would put forth that the level of defense Deng does bring on Lebron is a main reason we're currently as close to Miami as we are.

Eliminate that defense from what we bring (to every game)...and feel the results you will.

I don't expect ANYONE to cover LeBron. Having said that, I don't think Deng has a prayer of really covering him when he's determined to score (and not just dogging it). So I can't consider that as an argument to keep him.

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I think you're missing the nuance of my point though. With Luol defending Lebron, we flat out defend the Heat better.

Without Luol, we lost the side of the ball we were elite on. We didn't get all those wins because we are an outstanding offensive team.

It's a double edged sword though. We can defend LeBron, but have no answer for the Heat on the other end.

Dammit , why can't they just amnesty Boozer's ass .
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[AAU Teammate]

The realistic view is this. We're not going to be better than the Heat, but we have to stay close enough to the Heat's talent where we can get four games in a seven game series.

Luol helps maintain the side of the ball we're elite on. If we want to sacrifice the aspect of basketball we're elite at, then we have to have some seriously good answers for what we're going to create in its place. An elite offense?

For years here we yelled at the FO not creating a winner. Now that they have, we want to tear it down because Draft-time is fun? Because praying for Harrison Barnes to not be Marvin Williams is fun? I personally just like maintaining our elite defensive team and seeing if we can (1) score big or well with an exception in a future year (2) draft well with the picks we have over the next few years (3) eventually amnesty Boozer(not now) and use that to get Mirotic here

[othawhitemeat]

I just don't see how we are going to beat the Heat barring them being unmotivated next year or the following year. We will have to pony up for Taj/Asik, Rose will not be full speed most likely until next year, and Deng/Boozer/Rip will all be older and at least Boozer/Rip will be on the decline. Plus our whole starting 5 has problems staying healthy.

I just don't see the point in stagnating and not just re-tooling a piece to open up major flexibility. If we can trade Deng for #5/Garcia, that still opens up possibilities for MLE in my opinion - maybe even say an amnestied player (Joe Johnson?)? We may not be getting as good of an overall player as Deng, but we are getting a possibility of a much better threat offensively. True, it might take a couple of years for this rookie to catch up, but with the right blend of vets, it could pay off. Remember, we are not just replacing Deng with a possible rookie with upside, but we are also opening up possible room to get another veteran to our team or build up our bench. People say the draft is a crap-shoot, but this year the top 5 players are all very hard working, high IQ, and high reward - usually in past drafts there is one or two players that are either not athletic enough or they possess low basketball IQ.

What scares me is if we keep Deng, is where are we going to get our secondary creator offensively? I feel if we stay as is we are opening ourselves to wearing down Rose even quicker. I like Jason Kidd and all, but he is not going to help that much - I am sorry, but that is the truth.

We are not wanting to make a trade to make a trade, but take a calculated risk to get our team to be better.

Deng defensively is great, but he is not a big difference covering Lebron - Asik/Taj/Noah are. I felt Butler in short glimpses did just as well as Deng against Bron Bron.

[djunkster]

One other thing is people keep talking about the current "model" of the Bulls team not being able to win the championship.

I think that this current model has a very good chance of winning the championship.

As long as Miami and OKC's big 3 are around, we're not going to out "star" (er, out-Hollywood them), and any team that gets into a shootout with either of them doesn't have a very good chance of winning. The best chance we have of beating them isn't to play at their strength - but to play at ours. That's superb defense and rebounding first.

If we trade Deng and our defense weakens, it weakens us. I don't believe we would be able to find that 2nd "SUPERSTAR" two way player at a pick lower than 5. If we can get a better offensive player do it, but don't risk it by lowering our defense + rebounding.

If you get a #2 that scores bunches but doesn't defend well, odds are that #2 isn't going to score more (and more efficiently) than Wade or Westbrook. Add in Harden and Bosh and do people really thing we would win in a shootout?

[Wingy]

Random summer time useless thoughts.

- Our FO doesn't talk to the papers and then pulls off said trade.
- Could GSW be a smokescreen to drum up interest from a nearby neighbor...say Sacto who is only being talked about via us and the internet (but not in the papers).

I wonder if the Bay area paper just reads RealGM. I mean, there could be some mad web surfing reporters that read boards closely, find out who has legit track records and then use them to throw rumors off the wall.

[AAU Teammate]

Regarding Deng guarding Bron, I think people are really taking for granted the job he does on Bron. The Miami/Chicago playoff series had a defense-first tone to it, and while Lebron made shots, we were able as a team to really contain what they do on offense. Several very low scoring games for them.

Defense is a team game, and as someone mentioned, Asik and Taj contribute. But Deng is part of that as well. He can guard 2-3-4 off the switch. This is a very versatile 6'9" guy.

You didn't see Spurs fans ready to dump Bruce Bowen any moment that was convenient. They rode him to large amounts of success. Not only is this our defensive specialist, but he hits the three and scores as a result of well run plays. People won't sacrifice Noah's passing but they will sacrifice the guy who finishes on great Noah passes. I just can't relate to it.

There are the posters that would replace Deng with Gerald Green or whoever to jump out of the gym. Those aren't worth reading for more than a few seconds. The people I will respect/hear out are the ones who want a trade for organizational stability and future assets/flexibility. That sort of thing makes sense, but you're still making yourself worse now for an uncertain future. Right now what's uncertain is the next 8-12 months of our team's quality. When you think about how long it takes some draft picks to develop, that amount of time is nothing.

[AAU Teammate]

And the sample size we have on Jimmy Butler's defense is so small. Butler's lack of length really casts into doubt if he's a true SF. Does he even have Ronnie Brewer's length? Luol is tailor made for SF.

You don't go into a playoff series with Lebron with Jimmy Butler as your roadblock to his success. Deng makes Lebron work.

[tikay0036]

The more and more I think about it. Moving Deng would be a huge mistake. As the previous poster stated, the FO finally created a winning team, and to throw that all away would be disastrous. I bet if we draft Branes or Beal, we'll be looking back on how big of a mistake we made. At the core of the issue is Boozer's contract. We all know Rose, Deng, Noah are our true core. Just have to get rid of Boozer sooner or later, be patient for a very good move we can make, then pounce on a deal involving Deng or Noah. No need to rush as of yet. Besides the FA market is super weak next year, might as well wait til the big guns come out in 2014. Kevin Love here we come.

[AAU Teammate]

I personally don't think Boozer's deal is totally unmoveable. We hear snippets that Orlando and Detroit could have interest.

If you needed to, you could likely get BG and Villanueva for Boozer and the Charlotte pick, There are ways we could do it. But right now moving Boozer (in that type of doable deal) is just not the Bulls biggest concern, because frankly, he is a guy who puts the ball in the basket. As a team, we need more guys who can do that. Not less.

Boozer is also a guy who compliments Rose's style of play, and Rose's style of play dictates the way we construct the team.

[thedarkstark]

You don't defend Lebron James with 1 guy, you don't guard any elite all-time great scorer with 1 guy.

We could have the worst defensive SF in the league and still slow down Lebron better if we got rid of Boozers sorry ass and gave Taj his minutes.

Rotation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1 on 1 defense.

[AAU Teammate]

thedarkstark, that makes no sense. You'd support turning an elite defensive SF into an awful SF and simultaneously take our best jumpshooter and turn him into 48 minutes of the jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none Taj.

Deng helps the team defense. He guards 2-3-4. You're missing your own point.

[blumeany]

KC reporting that the pre-draft press conference isn't happening . INTERESTING.

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[dafunky1]

http://chicagotribune.feedsportal.com/c ... tory01.htm

[Mech Engineer]

And the sample size we have on Jimmy Butler's defense is so small. Butler's lack of length really casts into doubt if he's a true SF. Does he even have Ronnie Brewer's length? Luol is tailor made for SF.

You don't go into a playoff series with Lebron with Jimmy Butler as your roadblock to his success. Deng makes Lebron work.

The one thing with Miami is how Wade looked in the playoffs. He looks beaten up and is approaching Allen Iverson late career situation. If that's the case, LeBron is back to his Cleveland time with Bosh as his running mate. And, the other thing we don't know is how motivated LeBron and Bosh are after winning a c'ship.

Deng is a very unique player who is being sacrificed for the Boozer signing. All that said, I think there is going to be a trade for two reasons:
1. Rose's injury, age has made the Bulls FO to re-evaluate their roster
2. They are dealing from a position of strength in that they have a franchise player

[AAU Teammate]

Also (and this is not directed at darkstark) but I feel like we're entering a world right now where I am supposed to not need a great 1 on 1 defender, because isolation defense doesn't matter....

...but i AM supposed to want a second offensive player who can play well in 1 on 1 situations because they DO matter.

How bout this: 1 on 1 and team defense both matter. Deng helps BOTH.

[BigUps]

KC says:

As reported previously, the Bulls have had preliminary conversations with lottery teams regarding Luol Deng. However, according to two league sources, those talks haven't included the Warriors, a bad rumor that won't die.

The entire purpose of trading Deng, which management isn't dying to do, would be to do so to a team that can absorb Deng's contract into its salary-cap space, thus eliminating the need to take back salary.

This would allow the Bulls to draft a young player — who would remain on a rookie contract — to develop and pair alongside Derrick Rose when he returns to full strength and also to chase a veteran point guard with the full mid-level exception this summer in free agency to cover for Rose's absence.

If the Bulls keep Deng on the payroll, still more likely than not, and match an offer on restricted free agent Omer Asik, their luxury tax concerns remain. That would limit what they would spend on Rose's replacement while he rehabilitates from knee surgery.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/ba ... 8145.story

[Helix]

thedarkstark, that makes no sense. You'd support turning an elite defensive SF into an awful SF and simultaneously take our best jumpshooter and turn him into 48 minutes of the jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none Taj.

Deng helps the team defense. He guards 2-3-4. You're missing your own point.

This!

Also, about Taj, I'm just gonna say one thing. He is a career back-up imo. An extremely valuable one, but I can't see him doing very well as a starter. The key to his game is the amount of energy he brings to the court with his killer defensive plays and highlight dunks. The problem is though that he doesn't have a consistent jumper.

But anyway, back to Deng. I was "okay" with trading him when all of the rumors were at their peak, but I mostly did that to prepare for him being traded and to make the best of it. He is an extremely valuable member to this team because he does not complain about anything. Pretty much everything else I have to say about him has been said.

[thedarkstark]

thedarkstark, that makes no sense. You'd support turning an elite defensive SF into an awful SF and simultaneously take our best jumpshooter and turn him into 48 minutes of the jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none Taj.

Deng helps the team defense. He guards 2-3-4. You're missing your own point.

No, my point is that Deng's defense is overrated. He is an amazing 1 on 1 defender, even a pretty good help defender (rotates well) but he doesn't block shots, and he doesn't eat up space in the paint.

If you replace Deng with a below average defensive SF, and you replace Boozer with an elite defensive PF (like Taj), than our defense gets about 1000% better.

PF's and C's are the 2 most important defenders on the floor because they're the last line of defense, anything inside should have to go through them. When Boozer is on the floor teams run a layup drill on him.

TLDR; If Bulls can replace Deng with a better offensive player, you do it. Then you get rid of Boozer next offseason. I would say get rid of him this season, but we all know Jerry's cheap ass isn't going to pay Boozer not to play.

[AAU Teammate]

thedarkstark, that makes no sense. You'd support turning an elite defensive SF into an awful SF and simultaneously take our best jumpshooter and turn him into 48 minutes of the jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none Taj.

Deng helps the team defense. He guards 2-3-4. You're missing your own point.

No, my point is that Deng's defense is overrated. He is an amazing 1 on 1 defender, even a pretty good help defender (rotates well) but he doesn't block shots, and he doesn't eat up space in the paint.

If you replace Deng with a below average defensive SF, and you replace Boozer with an elite defensive PF (like Taj), than our defense gets about 1000% better.

PF's and C's are the 2 most important defenders on the floor because they're the last line of defense, anything inside should have to go through them. When Boozer is on the floor teams run a layup drill on him.

TLDR; If Bulls can replace Deng with a better offensive player, you do it. Then you get rid of Boozer next offseason. I would say get rid of him this season, but we all know Jerry's cheap ass isn't going to pay Boozer not to play.

Just to clarify, because I don't think I've ever heard this point made before.

The couple blown assignments Boozer makes per game are more important to us than our All-Defense Team defender who guards the other team's best scorer on a nightly basis?

It's one thing to say Boozer's defensively bad, and of course we all know he's out there because of his jumpshooting............but it's another to just totally discredit a great defender like Luol. You do realize that an opposing offense can tailor their plays to spread things out for their best scorer, right? In those situations I want Luol. Not Gerald Green or whatever your scenario had in mind.

[Ralphb07]

Random summer time useless thoughts.

- Our FO doesn't talk to the papers and then pulls off said trade.
- Could GSW be a smokescreen to drum up interest from a nearby neighbor...say Sacto who is only being talked about via us and the internet (but not in the papers).

I wonder if the Bay area paper just reads RealGM. I mean, there could be some mad web surfing reporters that read boards closely, find out who has legit track records and then use them to throw rumors off the wall.

I was thinking GS could be a smoke screen as well today.