2012 Draft, Part VI (Draft Week is Here!)

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I really, really, really like Will Barton.

Barton, even more than Ross, strikes me as a can't miss success at SG. I don't see him slipping out of the first round, even though he only weighs 175 lbs. He is a legit 6'6", with long arms. Barton can do it all on the basketball court.


http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Will-Barton-5737/

If he is on the board at 32, the Wizards better not pass on him.

[nate33]

And this is where we differ in opinion, I just don't see that potential. But regardless of how i feel i could be wrong. After all there's a reason why he's projected as a top 5 pick in this draft and I could just be letting his negatives blind me to his many positives, kinda like what you're doing with Barnes. Both players are young enough, talented enough and hard working enough to overcome the deficiencies their critics see in their games

The difference is that MKG's weakness: shooting, is typically one that gets better with time and experience. Barnes' weaknesses: aggressiveness and shot creation off the dribble, are ones that rarely improve once you get to the NBA level.

[Dat2U]

After hearing Skip Bayless today share the exact same opinion on Beal (solid, but didn't wow me), Barnes (overrated, can't create off the bounce) and MKG (winner, 2nd best player in the draft), I'm thinking I should change my opinions.

[BIG FURB]

After hearing Skip Bayless today share the exact same opinion on Beal (solid, but didn't wow me), Barnes (overrated, can't create off the bounce) and MKG (winner, 2nd best player in the draft), I'm thinking I should change my opinions.

You value Skip Bayless's opinions? Dear God man, why?!?

[tontoz]

Barnes 47% shooting on 2s should take him out of consideration for a top 5 pick. If he can't score efficiently in college how is he going to do it in the pros? The only way is to be a Ryan Anderson type 3 pt shooter, both in accuracy and in volume.

GMs will be looking at a lot more than FG% when deciding where Barnes ranks in the draft.

Where GMs rank a player and where a player actually should be ranked are two different things. Guys like Presti are the exception to the rule.

Barnes doesn't bring much to the table other than scoring and he doesn't score efficiently.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

This from Sam Amick (SI):

Depth defines the draft, with multiple positions at which the perceived variance among three or four prospects is minimal. Exhibit A: the shooting guards. Beal is widely viewed as the top talent, but good luck finding a consensus beyond that. Many teams prefer Syracuse's Dion Waiters, while some have fallen in love with Duke's Austin Rivers and others want Connecticut's Jeremy Lamb. Meanwhile, guys like Washington's Terrence Ross and Memphis' Will Barton are expected to be taken later but could wind up being better than some of the aforementioned players.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/w ... z1yv6digBq

I am totally on board with Ross and Barton more than Rivers. Lamb has a great shot but he played on cruise control this season and does not bring energy like Barton or Ross. I am as curious as anyone else to see who turns out best at SG.

Beal is 18 and presumably will get much better, but he is a muscularly developed 18. Ross and Barton both are going to get bigger and stronger in time IMO.

[7-Day Dray]

After hearing Skip Bayless today share the exact same opinion on Beal (solid, but didn't wow me), Barnes (overrated, can't create off the bounce) and MKG (winner, 2nd best player in the draft), I'm thinking I should change my opinions.

You value Skip Bayless's opinions? Dear God man, why?!?

He said he thinks he should change his opinions now that Skip agrees w/ him. I like Skip though, so I won't comment any further.

[Nivek]

Ed Weiland has his analysis of the centers in this year's draft up. Biggest disagreement between his analysis and mine is on Zeller. He categorizes Zeller as a 2nd round pick, in YODA he rates as a top 5 pick. One comment of Weiland's that I disagree on is his characterization of Zeller as inefficient on offense. Zeller's 2pt percentage was lower than either of us would want it to be, but he shot well from the FT line (81%), was an excellent offensive rebounder, and committed fewer turnovers than the typical center prospect. His eOrtg was 123 points produced per 100 possessions, which is well above average for any position, including center.

[tontoz]

After hearing Skip Bayless today share the exact same opinion on Beal (solid, but didn't wow me), Barnes (overrated, can't create off the bounce) and MKG (winner, 2nd best player in the draft), I'm thinking I should change my opinions.

You value Skip Bayless's opinions? Dear God man, why?!?

RIF

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

After hearing Skip Bayless today share the exact same opinion on Beal (solid, but didn't wow me), Barnes (overrated, can't create off the bounce) and MKG (winner, 2nd best player in the draft), I'm thinking I should change my opinions.

Skip's credibility is sinking like a rock in the ocean. He's not the most likable guy, either.

[The Consiglieri]

Kentucky's leader was MKG, that's precisely one of the reasons why MKG is so highly thought of. He's already a good basketball player, and all of his intangibles are off the charts good. Davis didn't lead Kentucky. MKG did. MKG's floor is what you describe, not at all his ceiling.

It's not his intangibles that I worry about, it's his tangibles. The boy has large holes in his game that are being glossed over by fans like you. And a person could argue that Barnes floor is what you describe, not at all his ceiling

Fair point on MKG, changing those issues he has can be very hard, of course changing mental make up is even harder, players can be taught to shoot properly, just ask thorpedo over at espn.

As for me describing Barnes floor, i don't see that at all. What is he going to do? Suddenly change into a dynamic, boisterous leader, not show up in a sweater for an interview (teasing, but still, showing up looking like an 80's sweater comic isn't probably going to help you lead an NBA team, just guessing looking like "Carlton" is probably not gonna get it done), but rather come in and demand the ball, demand the moment, suddenly turn into exactly the person he's never, ever been? Is he suddenly gonna become a finisher now that he's playing against much much better players? Is he suddenly going to become a star because it's easier on the next level?

I can see him turning his intelligence, his BBIQ into a real asset with Wall. Just like Nene, Barnes will know exactly how to execute game plans, and his role and do it well, he'll be night and day as compared to most Wizards the past several years, but is he suddenly going to become a leader, a defensive presence, a finisher, a dynamic, show up every day, star and perform his duties like a junk yard dog?

Is that his ceiling? Cause I think that's insane. None of that is in his mental make up or skill set. His ceiling is low.

Betting on Barnes, as the scouts around the league have said is betting on his super high floor, professionalism, and smarts. He's not gonna bust, and he's gonna fill a role, and do that role well. He's just never gonna be any better than that, and since when is that worth a super high pick? It isn't.

[sfam]

After hearing Skip Bayless today share the exact same opinion on Beal (solid, but didn't wow me), Barnes (overrated, can't create off the bounce) and MKG (winner, 2nd best player in the draft), I'm thinking I should change my opinions.

You value Skip Bayless's opinions? Dear God man, why?!?

You misunderstand. I think Dat is saying that because Skip agrees with him (that MKG is the best pick) that perhaps his original opinion might be wrong, because Skip is always wrong.

[nate33]

After hearing Skip Bayless today share the exact same opinion on Beal (solid, but didn't wow me), Barnes (overrated, can't create off the bounce) and MKG (winner, 2nd best player in the draft), I'm thinking I should change my opinions.

You value Skip Bayless's opinions? Dear God man, why?!?

No. Dat2U finds himself in the uncomfortable position of agreeing with Bayless. Clearly, something is wrong with Dat2U's analysis.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Ed Weiland has his analysis of the centers in this year's draft up. Biggest disagreement between his analysis and mine is on Zeller. He categorizes Zeller as a 2nd round pick, in YODA he rates as a top 5 pick. One comment of Weiland's that I disagree on is his characterization of Zeller as inefficient on offense. Zeller's 2pt percentage was lower than either of us would want it to be, but he shot well from the FT line (81%), was an excellent offensive rebounder, and committed fewer turnovers than the typical center prospect. His eOrtg was 123 points produced per 100 possessions, which is well above average for any position, including center.

The main thing about Zeller IMO is he is so intelligent that I believe he will stick to being a pick and pop player. He won't even try to score with his back to the basket. What he will do is board, score in transition, and kick the ball back out to guards.

Since the Wizards acquired Okafor, I have put Zeller out of my mind. He was one of my favorite players in this draft. I agree with YODA, Nivek.

[BIG FURB]

After hearing Skip Bayless today share the exact same opinion on Beal (solid, but didn't wow me), Barnes (overrated, can't create off the bounce) and MKG (winner, 2nd best player in the draft), I'm thinking I should change my opinions.

You value Skip Bayless's opinions? Dear God man, why?!?

RIF

Indeed, my apologies for the misunderstanding

[7-Day Dray]

Ed Weiland has his analysis of the centers in this year's draft up. Biggest disagreement between his analysis and mine is on Zeller. He categorizes Zeller as a 2nd round pick, in YODA he rates as a top 5 pick. One comment of Weiland's that I disagree on is his characterization of Zeller as inefficient on offense. Zeller's 2pt percentage was lower than either of us would want it to be, but he shot well from the FT line (81%), was an excellent offensive rebounder, and committed fewer turnovers than the typical center prospect. His eOrtg was 123 points produced per 100 possessions, which is well above average for any position, including center.

I'm not that high on Zeller. I have questions on how his post game will translate. Throughout his college career, he made a living making quick hooks catching the defense off-guard. In the pros, the defense will be quicker, and the bigs are taller and longer, and Zeller has short arms.

[Wizardspride]

According to the message board source I mentioned a few weeks ago:


Beal IS the pick....provided he's still there.


And if he's not, look out for a trade involving Blatche.


Take it with a grain of salt. Just throwing it out there.

[Nivek]

You might be right 7-Day Dray. Like CCJ, I suspect Zeller might be smart enough to adapt to the pro game. He does have short arms, but he's above average in agility, strength and leaping ability for a center. That also bodes well for him. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

[nate33]

According to the message board source I mentioned a few weeks ago:


Beal IS the pick....provided he's still there.


And if he's not, look out for a trade involving Blatche.


Take it with a grain of salt. Just throwing it out there.

Dear God I hope it's not Blatche + Okafor + #3 for Pau Gasol. EG can't be THAT short sighted, can he?

How effed up would it be to brag about spending the money to win by taking on $28M in extra salary in the Lewis trade, but then turn around and trade the #3 pick in order to dump Blatche's contractual obligation?

[Samuels]

I have' nt been posting here lately but still read the threads occasionally. I have' nt heard one word about Gasol.

I' ve heard
3+blatch for 5+ Garcia

3+ blatche for 6+ Matthews

3+ blatche for 14,16+ Lowery who would be flipped.