Discussing Other Teams' Moves

[LyricalRico]

^ Agreed. Charlotte gets the best player in the trade, plus a pick. Yes they add a year of salary, but their longterm cap is mostly clear anyway so this will help them reach the cap floor in 2013-14.

And they can make similar deals with Diop and Carroll - taking on an extra year of salary to get a future pick. Names like Richard Jefferson and Marvin Williams come to mind.

[nate33]

Charlotte receives a pick for absorbing $14M in Gordon's salary. We gave up a pick to absorb $28M in Okafor and Ariza's salary.

[AFM]

Maggette still plays in the NBA? WTF

[Hoopalotta]

One thing about this trade that stinks for Detroit is that they're now in position to where "don't make this trade look disastrous" has got to be a priority in the front office's mind, even if they don't want to admit it publicly or to themselves.

Speculation would be that Charlie Villain gets amnestied (nice free agent class in '09 there, too bad they missed out on Hedo). So, Detroit has a lot of cap space for the summer of 2013, which is when I assume that they're trying to spend it. So, if they can't get a star, I bet they just ink some guys who they feel don't stink, just so they aren't so dreadful that they cough up a high lottery pick and become laughingstocks.

Maybe they make the playoffs sooner and it doesn't come to that but, worst case, it's Charlie V and Ben Gordon signings all over again with a decade session of being directionless.

If Boozer gets amnestied - and that could happen given that Chicago's outlay would be heavily offset by someone picking him up for substantial money - I wonder if Dumars picks him up? That was supposedly his real target in '09 before the Booze opted in. That's no good from a direction standpoint, but it would degrade the value of the traded pick by a lot.

[closg00]

Ben Gordon has one of the worse contracts in the NBA. He's also undersized and no better than Jordan Crawford who makes $11 million less.

Detroit makes out like bandits here, they still have the amnesty they could use on Charlie V and get out of Ben's contract. Corey's an expiring.

That's funny. Ariza/Okafor are two of the worst contracts in the league, and we got NOTHING for them. At least Charlotte got a pick....we gave up a freakin' pick LMAO.

Exactly

[fishercob]

The New Orleans/Detroit comparisons aren't close to apples to apples.

Detroit had much more urgency to clean up their salary situation than New Orleans did. That's not to say that New Orleans won't reap benefits from hitting the reset button, but before this trade Detroit was going to have $67M in committed salary for the upcoming season for a team that finished with the 9th worst record in the league. That is astonishingly bad. Most of the similarly expensive teams were really good. Most of the bad teams were really cheap.

They had $46M committed for 13-14 -- barely enough for a max contract, before their '13 pick, and really not a huge number as other teams have managed their caps much more judiciously over the past 12-18 months.

So they paid a pick to clear their cap.

While that's sexy and all, it's possible that that the pick won't be conveyed in until '14 or possibly '15. Even if it is conveyed in '13, it will be out of the lottery in a draft that is already projecting to be pretty weak.

Not to say it that pick couldn't be flipped for something better. Not saying that our deal with NO was better than this deal. But I do not think this deal was available to use either, unless we wanted to take Charlie Villanueva.

So I guess that's the question -- what's better: Gordon/CV/this pick or Ariza/Okafor?

[Rafael122]

The New Orleans/Detroit comparisons aren't close to apples to apples.

Detroit had much more urgency to clean up their salary situation than New Orleans did. That's not to say that New Orleans won't reap benefits from hitting the reset button, but before this trade Detroit was going to have $67M in committed salary for the upcoming season for a team that finished with the 9th worst record in the league. That is astonishingly bad. Most of the similarly expensive teams were really good. Most of the bad teams were really cheap.

They had $46M committed for 13-14 -- barely enough for a max contract, before their '13 pick, and really not a huge number as other teams have managed their caps much more judiciously over the past 12-18 months.

So they paid a pick to clear their cap.

While that's sexy and all, it's possible that that the pick won't be conveyed in until '14 or possibly '15. Even if it is conveyed in '13, it will be out of the lottery in a draft that is already projecting to be pretty weak.

Not to say it that pick couldn't be flipped for something better. Not saying that our deal with NO was better than this deal. But I do not think this deal was available to use either, unless we wanted to take Charlie Villanueva.

So I guess that's the question -- what's better: Gordon/CV/this pick or Ariza/Okafor?

Agree with all of this, Ernie would be killed if he had gotten a first round pick that wouldn't be available for at least 3 years. I think if there's a winner in this trade, it's Detroit. They'll be some $22 million under the cap next offseason. And I believe that's w/out amnestying Charlie V. Cho is being called a genius for trading for Ben Gordon. It's Ben Gordon y'all. Ben Gordon.

[fishercob]

The New Orleans/Detroit comparisons aren't close to apples to apples.

Detroit had much more urgency to clean up their salary situation than New Orleans did. That's not to say that New Orleans won't reap benefits from hitting the reset button, but before this trade Detroit was going to have $67M in committed salary for the upcoming season for a team that finished with the 9th worst record in the league. That is astonishingly bad. Most of the similarly expensive teams were really good. Most of the bad teams were really cheap.

They had $46M committed for 13-14 -- barely enough for a max contract, before their '13 pick, and really not a huge number as other teams have managed their caps much more judiciously over the past 12-18 months.

So they paid a pick to clear their cap.

While that's sexy and all, it's possible that that the pick won't be conveyed in until '14 or possibly '15. Even if it is conveyed in '13, it will be out of the lottery in a draft that is already projecting to be pretty weak.

Not to say it that pick couldn't be flipped for something better. Not saying that our deal with NO was better than this deal. But I do not think this deal was available to use either, unless we wanted to take Charlie Villanueva.

So I guess that's the question -- what's better: Gordon/CV/this pick or Ariza/Okafor?

Agree with all of this, Ernie would be killed if he had gotten a first round pick that wouldn't be available for at least 3 years. I think if there's a winner in this trade, it's Detroit. They'll be some $22 million under the cap next offseason. And I believe that's w/out amnestying Charlie V.

Hard to call Detroit a winner -- they paid a first round pick (at some point) to undo some ridiculously avoidable damage. The money they save next season with Gordon may create the budget room to amnesty CV, but maybe not. They were last in the league in attendance last year, and I don't think they're raking the sponsorship dollars in. They're a Monroe injury away from giving up a top-1 protected pick in two years.

They were 26nd in O and 22th in D last year. They likely will not take anyone at 9 who will have a big impact for a year -- maybe 2 or 3. They could easily suck for a while, and if Monroe doesn't want to be there long term, look out. They are far from out of the woods.

This was a "take your medicine" trade for them, but it hardly makes them a "winner" in my book.

[Hoopalotta]

what's better: Gordon/CV/this pick or Ariza/Okafor?

You bring in Villaneuva to try and light a fire under Blatche.

Or is this is a trick question?

[mohammed10]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/22 ... r_Chandler

Is Wilson Chandler that good? The #7 pick?

Rico et al., do we have anything to offer to get in on this?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

The Kings are talking about how impressed they are with Tyreke Evans' workouts and his conditioning. I think it is nothing but spin and they want him traded, badly.

The same could be true of the Knicks and Carmelo "I've lost 12 pounds" Anthony.

[LyricalRico]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/221775/Warriors_Talking_To_Denver_About_Swapping_No_7_For_Chandler

Is Wilson Chandler that good? The #7 pick?

Rico et al., do we have anything to offer to get in on this?

I'd say the #7 for Chandler would be overpaying, and that's probably the only reason why DEN is even willing to talk about it. And if a mid-lotto pick is the price, we're priced out IMO.

[Rafael122]

Rockets send Dalembert and the 14th pick to Milwaukee for the 12th pick, Shaun Livingston, Jon Brockman, and Jon Leurer.

Houston is clearing out cap space.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Rockets send Dalembert and the 14th pick to Milwaukee for the 12th pick, Shaun Livingston, Jon Brockman, and Jon Leurer.

Houston is clearing out cap space.

That is a HORRIBLE trade by the Bucks. It pretty much says they goofed when they traded Bogut.

[queridiculo]

Help me understand how that deal is so bad for the Bucks. From where I sit they address their need at center, get rid of a player that's redundant with Ellis and Jennings in the fold, and they only have to give up two spots.

[Rafael122]

And Dalembert's salary is only partially guaranteed.

[mohammed10]

Rockets send Dalembert and the 14th pick to Milwaukee for the 12th pick, Shaun Livingston, Jon Brockman, and Jon Leurer.

Houston is clearing out cap space.

That is a HORRIBLE trade by the Bucks. It pretty much says they goofed when they traded Bogut.

But from the Rockets' perspective, this is a great deal.

It must be nice to have a competent GM like Morey

[LyricalRico]

^ Which is why I don't think this was a salary dump by HOU. They could have simply waived Daly to get cap space. But by moving up 2 spots and acquiring a PG, it looks more and more like they are shopping a package of Lowry+picks, presumably as a stepping stone to Dwight Howard.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

And Dalembert's salary is only partially guaranteed.

Now that I think about it, this really makes things better for a trade with Houston. I mentioned this in the trade thread, but with Houston amassing picks and in the market for Dwight Howard; the Wizards can come up with something to get Martin involving Okafor.

A three-way deal with Okafor and multiple firsts going to Orlando, with Martin coming to the Wizards is more favorable now.

[LyricalRico]

^ I've been trying to see how the Wiz can get in on a Howard to HOU trade for the last 24 hours, but not luck yet. I'll keep working after this new news.