Trading the #2 pick - dicussion (merged)

doc.end · Post #861 » by **doc.end** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:30 pm

If we are getting Lowry and picks for our pick and ?, it seems sending away Carroll (no big deal), Moon and Higgins would be around rght numbers without a need to accpet more salary then sending away (roughly). That's not enough but it has some benefits too!

I am not sure I want him, he may be a headcase, but we could offer him further as an asset, couldn't we?

SWedd523 · Post #862 » by **SWedd523** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:39 pm

Bassman wrote:Uh Oh...looks like the hardball with Cleveland may see a trade slip away...

The Cleveland Cavaliers have long been linked to trade scenarios where they move up in the draft, but now there is word they may look to move down in the draft. The Cavs are working out Washington guard Terrence Ross, and it’s doubtful Cleveland would use the fourth pick on him. The Cavs are clearly in rebuilding mode and are thinking about the future more than the present. If they could trade down in the draft and pick up another asset or two, it appears they would be at least willing to listen to offers.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/2012-draft-eve-notebook

Our insistence that Tyrus be part of the deal will drive most potential players away. That contract is toxic for any team other than (possibly) Houston. I am sure Portland will not do it, nor would Washington. Can't see Cleveland doing it either. The new statement from our front office that they "love our #2 pick and it would take a lot to deal it" is positioning. I say the deal better get done today or there may be no deal.

I doubt a deal, if any, consisting of nothing but draft picks gets done until draft night.

KembaWalker · Post #863 » by **KembaWalker** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:04 pm

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/81045 ... -moving-up

Thunder like Beal

captaincrunk · Post #864 » by **captaincrunk** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:04 pm

KembaWalker wrote:http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8104507/florida-gator-bradley-beal-oklahoma-city-thunder-talked-moving-up

Thunder like Beal

I suppose a Westbrook for Tyrus and #2 could work out.

amcoolio · Post #865 » by **amcoolio** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:13 pm

I don't see any deal OKC could make short of trading Durant or Westbrook to move to #2

amcoolio · Post #866 » by **amcoolio** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:39 pm

They could easily move up to #3 by trading Harden however

dmutombo321 · Post #867 » by **dmutombo321** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:39 pm

amcoolio wrote:I don't see any deal OKC could make short of trading Durant or Westbrook to move to #2

They're considering a cost effective replacement to duplicate some of what Harden provides and Beal fits the bill.

Harden (who they wont be able to extend after next season without paying luxary tax) for #2 + Tyrus.

Since we have Gordon now as well, we would be loaded at guard and could then use Hendo to trade back into the late lotto

captaincrunk · Post #868 » by **captaincrunk** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:43 pm

dmutombo321 wrote:
amcoolio wrote:I don't see any deal OKC could make short of trading Durant or Westbrook to move to #2

They're considering a cost effective replacement to duplicate some of what Harden provides and Beal fits the bill.

Harden (who they wont be able to extend after next season without paying luxary tax) for #2 + Tyrus.

Since we have Gordon now as well, we would be loaded at guard and could then use Hendo to trade back into the late lotto

I think you've got a point. It solves the Harden/Ibaka problem for another few years. But it's a gamble, you don't know Beal can do as good as Harden and he certainly doesn't have the same point guard skills.

hhvo · Post #869 » by **hhvo** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:43 pm

KembaWalker wrote:http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8104507/florida-gator-bradley-beal-oklahoma-city-thunder-talked-moving-up

Thunder like Beal

I think there was mention of this a while back, regarding Harden for #2.

Give our current roster and Harden performances thus far, would you make the trade straight up? With and without the extension?

hhvo · Post #870 » by **hhvo** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:47 pm

amcoolio wrote:They could easily move up to #3 by trading Harden however

That wouldn't guarantee them Beal at #3... We pretty much hold the cards for that.

Bertinho · Post #871 » by **Bertinho** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:50 pm

Cavs, Spurs, Thunder, Wizards and Nuggets likes Beal.

We have to choose Beal inte #2 and wait for calls. We will we will receive something good.

Harden isn´t the best option because he´ll not renew his contract here.

captaincrunk · Post #872 » by **captaincrunk** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:53 pm

Bertinho wrote:Cavs, Spurs, Thunder, Wizards and Nuggets likes Beal.

We have to choose Beal inte #2 and wait for calls. We will we will receive something good.

Harden isn´t the best option because he´ll not renew his contract here.

There's only like 5 minutes to make that call though! I say they start now.

dmutombo321 · Post #873 » by **dmutombo321** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:10 pm

Bertinho wrote:Harden isn´t the best option because he´ll not renew his contract here.

I cant see how it gets any better than Harden. He's the 3rd best SG in the league behind Kobe and Wade, he's only 23 and he has NBA Finals experience already.

There'd be a definite risk of him not re-signing but if they'd be willing to take Tyrus off our hands to compensate for this risk, I'd green light it.

Per the article:

To get Beal, the Thunder would undoubtedly have to move James Harden, the NBA's Sixth Man of the Year. League sources said the Thunder wouldn't be able to avoid serious tax issues if they had to pay lucrative contracts to all four of their marquee players in Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, Serge Ibaka and Harden. The first two won't be moved. But to trade Harden to a team such as Charlotte would be a risk for the receiving team since there is no guarantee Harden would sign a long-term deal beyond the one year remaining on his contract.

Harden would probably be upset at first. He's very close to all of the players in OKC and considers them family. He strikes me as a very quixotic guy however and as long as Charlotte is accomodating, I think beween Kemba, Gordon, Biz, etc (and Mully/White with whom he has already played) that he could establish similar relationships with some of the guys here and the probability of retaining him would be high.

I think he could post 23-25ppg to go along with 5reb, 5 assist type allstar numbers here.

Assuming so, we would have the $ to max him if he proves worthy.

serevei · Post #874 » by **serevei** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:08 pm

perhaps:

OKC GETS: #2 (Beal) + R. Williams
OKC GIVES: Harden + #28

CHA GETS: Williams + B Miller (cap space) + mem 13 1st + #28
CHA GIVES: #2 Beal + Tyrus Thomas (awful deal)

MIN GETS: Harden + Thomas
MIN GIVES: Derrick Williams + B Miller + mem 13 1st

OKC gets Beal, and can now afford to keep Ibaka. Ibaka + Beal > Harden?
CHA moves their bad deal, and williams pairs well with Biyombo
MIN gets their third star - they can afford to pay Harden

HornetJail · Post #875 » by **HornetJail** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:11 pm

I don't like that at all.

captaincrunk · Post #876 » by **captaincrunk** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:12 pm

Not very appetizing at all, pretty boring really. seems like we're just doing the other two teams a favor.

dmutombo321 · Post #877 » by **dmutombo321** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:16 pm

Yeah, if OKC is giving away Harden and getting the Beal pick and Reggie Williams, we could just cut out Minny and do the deal ourselves. Moving Tyrus is preferred but not essential. Towards the end of his deal, we can always amnesty him as well.

serevei · Post #878 » by **serevei** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:25 pm

I'm guessing it was more to do with:
a) Harden not wanting to sign an extension with Charlotte
b) 3/5 of Charlotte's best players would be shooting guards
c) Move Thomas
d) Pick up 2 assets in MEM 2013 1st and #28
e) May be able to trade Miller's unguaranteed contract for Bad 2 year contract + another asset

captaincrunk · Post #879 » by **captaincrunk** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:34 pm

Didn't brad miller retire?

dmutombo321 · Post #880 » by **dmutombo321** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:35 pm

Derrick Williams had an underwhelming rookie campaign and the Memphis first is likely close to #20.

Again, besides some cap relief and two poor picks, there is no reason for us to have Minny involved.

If OKC truly is receptive to dealing Harden for the Beal pick, we would be much better off dealing with them directly and rolling the dice on Harden resigning.

Even if Minny did have the assets to interest Charlotte and OKC in a threeway, you guys would face the same uncertainty in resigning Harden that we would.

Trade pick for players, trade for picks or keep it?